please pay hal his salary =x (in General)

lostling April 17 2008 8:43 PM EDT

considering that hal has such a tiny bow... its so obvious that he is nowhere near his weapon allowance...

and since he only does well in range rounds(relatively) before he becomes a low dex idiot... i would really like to see him buffed with either seeking arrows or an increase in damage... after all... frankly the damage now is pitiful...

PAY hal so he can upgrade his bow -.-

ScY April 17 2008 8:45 PM EDT


But seriously, the Hal needs something to make it less of a waste.

Balancing the Hal with the DD familiars would be great! It would give everyone more options for familiars. Perhaps a halidon-friendly item, like maybe specialized for the Hal would work too.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 17 2008 8:47 PM EDT

Maybe the ability to pay to increase his bow? (increase level, maybe like: 1,000 CB for 5 levels)

tasuki [UFC] April 17 2008 8:47 PM EDT

Give Hal heat-seeker arrows; therefore, it should not miss RoBF users and maybe fireball users too! And it will hit your own minions if they use a "stronger" fireball than the enemy.

lostling April 17 2008 8:51 PM EDT

lol... hal would be overpowered then if we could upgrade the bow that way lol... imagine a lvl 20 hal with a 1mill damage lol

QBsutekh137 April 17 2008 8:56 PM EDT

Just make Hal immune to Evasion. Nice buff? He's a familiar, after all. Shouldn't he be somewhat magical (i.e. at least hitting once?)

lostling April 17 2008 9:01 PM EDT

hmmm that would make him over powered lol... sorta a reverse SF lol... but then he would be vunerable to AMF?

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 17 2008 9:06 PM EDT

paying to upgrade him (With my numbers), he would not get upped that much as 1,000,000 CB would only raise him 50,000 levels, or make it even more extreme, lol.

Or even have him train anti-evasion. For each level of Anti-evasion he trains, one level of evasion gets knocked off the opponents'.

j'bob April 17 2008 9:08 PM EDT

Well, since Hal trained archery to 1.0 as he grew and archery now has to be trained less to reach 1.0, send "at least" the percentage difference Hal trained in archery to his st and or dx/hp.

and give him his own hoc. and a mage shield. and make him 15 feet tall!! (sorry)

lostling April 17 2008 9:20 PM EDT

lol small... theres is such a thing already... its called PTH =x

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 17 2008 10:02 PM EDT

"and give him his own hoc"

the hoc ability really should be inherent for hal.

QBsutekh137 April 17 2008 10:09 PM EDT

No, HoC can be Junctioned, so should be invested upon. I have to do so for my SF, so that's only fair, yes?

Hal would not be overpowered. He is still not immune from EC.

But since he is a ranged fighter by trade, at least make him savvy to the ways of Evasion -- maybe make him overcome half of it?

I'm just saying, he is entirely non-viable (other than as meat) currently. My opinion, yes. Feel free to show me otherwise. Show me a (non-pure-meat) success story for the Hal.

lostling April 17 2008 10:10 PM EDT

4 E + hal :) 2 GS 2 Haste
=x gets owned by DM builds though

QBsutekh137 April 17 2008 10:19 PM EDT

Sure, lost, he's still a "tank", but I don't want him to be immune from that. That's kinda the point. He's the "tank" familiar that the jiggy never quite got to.

Hell, buff poor Jig while you're at it!

lostling April 17 2008 10:26 PM EDT

jigs are poor and misunderstood :) they are actually pretty cool... quite the meat tank :)

so HAL would shoot magic arrows and get slapped with AMF? personally i rather hal not be change if that was going to happen... prefer being immune to AMF lol... but it would have interesting uses :) ah well whatever works

QBsutekh137 April 17 2008 11:30 PM EDT

No, IMO, immune from Evasion, immune from AMF.

Seriously, he doesn't do enough damage to be otherwise.

Let's have a viable ranged familiar!!!!

lostling April 17 2008 11:33 PM EDT

as i said :) whatever works :)

AdminNightStrike April 18 2008 12:59 AM EDT

I'd rather see all the other tattoos nerfed than the hal buffed. Tattoos are powerful pieces such that any team cannot be without. It'd be nice if you had to think real hard between having a tattoo or not.

Ulord[NK] April 18 2008 1:24 AM EDT

CB is a multi minion game. IE, there is almost never a downside to using tattoo since the truly competitive teams always have multiple minions. Nerfing tattoo is irrational. That would simply make RoE the tattoo to use, forgoing tattoo cost would not be a cost anymore, hence limiting options. RoE is attractive enough as is.

Flamey April 18 2008 9:38 AM EDT

Immune from evasion just pretty much makes it a DD familiar. Make it immune to AMF, then it would be strikingly similar to the RoBF, no? At least the damage part.

BluBBen April 18 2008 9:56 AM EDT

Ulord :
"I'd rather see all the other tattoos nerfed than the hal buffed."

I think "all other tattoos" means RoE to.

QBRanger April 18 2008 10:13 AM EDT

I would like to see Jigs get AC proportional to their AC.

IE a certain % of their NW would be converted to AC.

That would make them a true wall type tattoo.

And boost the PTH of the Hal while we are at it!!

Ulord[NK] April 18 2008 10:16 AM EDT

how exactly are you going to nerf RoE? Make it give 10% exp? Still the ONLY way to power level and has no alternatives, hence it will be used over weak tattoos that do not swing combat.

QBsutekh137 April 18 2008 10:21 AM EDT

Flamey, Hal would not be a DD familiar. No more than a mage is a tank, yes? He would still be vulnerable to EC.

Basically, he just needs help because he is mainly just a ranged tank, and ranged tanks have trouble against Evasion. I guess all I am asking for is another pth buff for Hal, perhaps.

winner winner April 18 2008 11:02 AM EDT

just make hal's bow bigger as he levels up.

QBRanger April 18 2008 11:03 AM EDT


I thought Jon made the Hal's PTH proportional to its level.

Perhaps we need even more PTH and possible damage for it to be viable.

I also believe that the Jig and Hal should get some AC as they are "tank" type familiars.

chuck1234 April 18 2008 11:08 AM EDT

The Jig already has superb Endurance which can be considered a kind of AC, but any help to keep it alive till melee starts is always welcome; maybe, what needs attention is the PTH of the Jig's UC [or whatever the technical position is on the Jig's damage dealing].

In contrast with the Jig, the Hal starts firing from round 1 ranged, so the situation is different. Nevertheless, the Hal too can be granted endurance [equivalent AC], though I'd still suggest that SoD with explo shots is the right weapon for the Hal.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 18 2008 2:00 PM EDT

The JKF has a unique skill (endurance) that it trains along side UC. Hal should IMSO have some thing similar. Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Multi Shot (and other stolen DnD feats) are all ideas. I think the previously mentioned lowered evasion effect would be great. Maybe a reduction in opponents evasion equal to the level of the skill? If not evasion countering I'd at least like to see point blank shot, where the level of the skill is added to dex during melee rounds, or where the skill has to match 1/4 of STR in order to eliminate melee penalties to using a bow.

QBOddBird April 18 2008 3:50 PM EDT

The "Point Blank Shot" nov mentioned would be fantastic.

No penalties to melee; potentially, even, a bonus as in the D&D version.

QBRanger April 18 2008 3:52 PM EDT

So we would have 2 skills on the HF?

Archery and Point Blank Shot.

QBOddBird April 18 2008 3:54 PM EDT

Sounds good to me, JKF has UC + Endurance

choco coco April 18 2008 6:09 PM EDT

I think damage should be boosted 50% and pth by 100%.

QBRanger April 18 2008 6:15 PM EDT

This from a 7.4M Hal.

No junction however.

Vs 229 AC and a 24 protection (LA).

17 / 17 / 298,510

In 6 rounds.

An average damage of 300k per hit for an average of 6 hits. Pathetic damage. Esp vs a minion with very little in the way of evasion.

That was 800k down the drain.

QBRanger April 18 2008 6:16 PM EDT

The exact battle. I was incorrect, his protection is 25.

Hal hit Stupid Wall [286511]
Absorb absorbs damage [286511]
Hal hit Stupid Wall [318165]
Absorb absorbs damage [318165]
Hal hit Stupid Wall [340288]
Absorb absorbs damage [340288]

Absorb regenerated 227,500 HP

Hal hit Stupid Wall [215703]
Absorb absorbs damage [215703]
Hal shot Stupid Wall [338724]
Absorb absorbs damage [338724]
Hal hit Stupid Wall [250720]
Absorb absorbs damage [250720]

Absorb regenerated 227,500 HP

Hal shot Stupid Wall [307050]
Absorb absorbs damage [307050]
Hal shot Stupid Wall [359439]
Absorb absorbs damage [359439]
Hal shot Stupid Wall [255052]
Absorb absorbs damage [255052]

Absorb regenerated 227,500 HP

Hal shot Stupid Wall [316119]
Absorb absorbs damage [316119]
Hal hit Stupid Wall [289837]
Absorb absorbs damage [289837]
Hal hit Stupid Wall [314205]
Absorb absorbs damage [314205]
Hal hit Stupid Wall [298750]
Absorb absorbs damage [298750]

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 18 2008 6:20 PM EDT

With 3.7M Str and no STR boosting items/Belegs, I wonder what a normal minion with an average sized weapon could hit 229 AC +25 protection for?

If much more, then we can safely ask for the Wepaon of the Hal to be upped.

If not, time to junction that Belegs and HoE! :P

QBRanger April 18 2008 6:21 PM EDT

Duh, 5 rounds, i do not junction a HoC.

Little Anthony April 18 2008 6:28 PM EDT

correction : EC in effect boo!

QBRanger April 18 2008 6:32 PM EDT

EC unfortunately does not increase the damage I do with my Hal.

QBRanger April 18 2008 6:45 PM EDT

Here ya go:

Vs Alisa:

Str: 1,205,624
ELB: x1650
Using BGs:

7 / 7 / 285,452

QBRanger April 18 2008 6:46 PM EDT

13 / 13 / 650,925

Vs Soxjr.

Using BGs, with a x4k MSB.

2.4M strength.

This and the above were with a MgS on my EC minion and 194 AC on my tank, no TOE and a 23 protection. Similar AC and prot to when my Hal fought LA.

QBOddBird April 20 2008 5:03 PM EDT

I'm playing with a Hal now too, and I gotta say, the damage output sucks.

Granted, I'm not using the best strategy ever on there, but it was the easiest to come up with.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] April 20 2008 5:22 PM EDT

I think that the best thing that could help both jiggy and Hal, is to fix the junction. I tested junction with jiggy and nothing boosted his UC or endurance at all. Not the AoF, EB, EG, or HG. Also if Hal's weapon were able to be modified through junction, like how the AoF boosts a familiars DD, then it would probably be sufficiently helped.

QBOddBird April 23 2008 1:42 PM EDT

So far I'm playing with Hal and he's doing alright. Granted, I'm massively abusing the fact that EO/ED/skills do not suffer from encumbrance, but I have a killer HAL at this level. My only complaint is that it is a 5-6 round familiar....once he hits melee, he is totally useless.

That would be understandable if he was a high damage archer, but he's not. And a 5 round familiar just cannot compete. Give him some way of continuing to fire with decent effectiveness in melee, and I think he'll be fine personally.

Seems like Jon introduced this neat-o familiar that comes with its own funny battle cry and unlimited arrows and then.....just dropped it on its face. =(

Point Blank Shot ftw!!
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Pmb">please pay hal his salary =x</a>