Convince Me! (in General)


Soxjr April 19 2008 3:31 AM EDT

Hello all. I have heard both sides of the argument about staying 1 minion and adding more.

Convince Me!

I personally am leaning toward getting a 2nd minion. Moving my now named ToE to the new minion and either training it with PL and then either AMF or DM and getting rid of the DM on my archer and getting more of my big stats.

So really. Convince me if you feel the need what you would do and how you would do it. As in if you got the 2nd minion would you go the AMF or DM route... One thing is certain. i will be using a ToE and I will keep the archer. The archer will be getting a EC and.. well one day try to get a TSA maybe. The biggest thing is what to do with minion 2 if/when i get one.

Thanks for taking the time.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] April 19 2008 3:51 AM EDT

Well Toe is more for longer battles... so I would recommend Amf... since the ToE helps with GA as well.... More minions always helps for more kill slots... and more Enchantments for your Tank... Support is always better than staying one minion... that one minion is way to easy to kill... the more minions you have the longer the battle will last.

If anything I would recommend buying three minions... 4 minion team is currently and prolly will always be the way to go.

Godpanda April 19 2008 4:18 AM EDT

Stay one minion until such time as it becomes impossible to get by with less. Having that one large minion will only become more and more valuable as established teams have their exp distributed.

8DEOTWP April 19 2008 5:24 AM EDT

I would suggest going until at least 2.5M MPR until you buy another minion, and 3M MPR, at least, for three. Freeing your tank of the ToE will allow you to gear him for stats, but Gdub is right.

QBJohnnywas April 19 2008 5:48 AM EDT

My own personal experience is that one is great up to and as far past the 'dead zone' as you can go. But if you really want to push into the top 20 - and stay there - 4 minions is what you need. If your main damage dealer is big enough it almost doesn't matter what the other minions do either. Their most important function is as killslots and DD spread fire reducers. All the rest is decoration in comparison.

Certain things are recommended however. Some kind of mage wall, which means you don't need AMF and...you'll love this....some kind of evasive quality.

It's different for everyone, but I tend to think of multi minion teams as a single entity anyway. I use the other minions to do what I would have done on the single minion. So if you're running an archer what you could be thinking is using the other minions to block - hence mage wall and evasion wall - enemy attacks. But you've also the option which helps an archer particularly of running haste for instance. Yes it can be dispelled. But it adds dex to a particularly dex hungry strat. It also adds dex to your other minions, which can help reduce the hits they take as a result of the dex gap.

So in the short term, if you were to get a 2nd minion I would consider building the DM on them and moving the XP on the tank into the stats that count where a tank is concerned. Think of the 2nd minion simply as an extension to the main char.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 19 2008 10:25 AM EDT

stay single! you almost beat me!
a little more hp and you'll be set...

Flamey April 19 2008 10:32 AM EDT

Single minions will end up dominating.

QBRanger April 19 2008 10:57 AM EDT

Get the 2nd minion, move the tattoo to that new minion and train AMF.

Unlearn your DM on your tank and boost its hp to help vs GA.

WIth the TOE, GA will not be that bad and the extra hp will help vs magic.

Also, another minion will disperse the FB/CoC damage for 1 extra round, lowering your damage anyway.

Without the TOE on your tank, you can then get/rent a MgS and TSA for your tank, as well as a SC or EC and do much better. The strength bonus from the TSA and its regeneration power is quite helpful for a tank.

QBRanger April 19 2008 10:57 AM EDT

The reason I propose AMF is for decay.

AS/GA is less of a problem with a TOE and decent AC.

I would also put the new minion in front to handle decays for as long as possible and let your tank with its MgS handle MM's.

AdminNightStrike April 19 2008 11:08 AM EDT

Stay single minion, otherwise you'll beat me :)

Unless you are going to be taking out a loan for that other minion, in which case, go for it :)

ActionAction April 19 2008 11:39 AM EDT

Well, honestly, I believe that the larger the XP disparity between your first minion and your next one will give you a very great advantage. Your team will be more centralized as the gap grows greater due to holding off buying a second minion.

Because of the relatively small MPR addition, you'll have a large gain (Enchantments + kill slot) for a comparatively small CB% change. BUT, you'll then start growing your second minion, and although the gap won't lessen between those two (barring retrains), your tank will start growing smaller and smaller relative to your own MPR.

Of course, if you're trying to boost into 6/20, then go for it. But I've always been an advocate of waiting longer and longer until you're going to go insane unless you buy a minion <<.

QBRanger April 19 2008 11:57 AM EDT

Pros of buying a new minion:

1) If you stay with the TOE, you can wear a TSA, EC and MgS (on the tank, duh). The TSA alone will boost your strength quite a bit=more damage. The MgS will help vs mages quite a lot. The EC will boost your archery skill and dexterity.

2) Another minion to disperse FB/CoC damage.

3) Another kill slot, if just for 1 round.

4) Ability to unlearn DM and learn it on the new minion or learn AMF=more xp to boost str/dex/archery/hp on your tank=tougher tank.

5) Being able to think up and use a cool name for the new minion.

6) More AC on the tank=less damage taken. By direct and indirect (GA).

7) The ability to wear a corn on the enchanter, boosting its EO spell. RIght now you cannot due to the HoC you need to use.

Cons:

1) Cost of the new minion.

2) The tank grows slower. However, I will counteract that by the following:

a) With a TSA your strength will go up quite a lot, it will take months to get that much xp to match that gain=more effective xp gained in strength.

b) The TSA regeneration adds more effective hp to your tank.

c) The EC adds more effective xp into dexterity and archery.

d) The MgS adds more effective hp vs mages.

e) More AC from the TSA and EC=less damage and direct DD/physical damage taken=more effective hp on the tank. Magnified by the TOE.

3) The cost of the new items you would need. TSA, EC, MgS, Corn, ?AoL etc...

Now if the Q was should I go from 2 minions to 3, that would be a completely different discussion. But IMO this is a no brainer. If you can afford it, do it.

QBRanger April 19 2008 11:58 AM EDT

Forgot 1 more pro:

8) More MPR getting to the magical 6 BA regeneration rate quicker.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] April 19 2008 12:13 PM EDT

i don't know if this will help your decision sox, but here are some figures for ya!

My current mpr: 2,523,795

hiring of minions: Enlist for $48,053,652 Enlist for $19,221,460

g'luck with whatever you decide bud. : )

TheHatchetman April 19 2008 12:17 PM EDT

why worry about decay? :P He's got a huge Mageseeker, and five rounds to target anything with a DD spell... melee comes around, and he still hasn't gotten to the decay dude, then chances are, whatever's stopping him is problem enough, with/without decay... That's like making sure your enchanters have enough XP to survive a CoC shot...

AMF is a good option, but without DM, you can forget about nov or PoisoN, and I always thought a rain of arrows from a MsK would be enough of a magic-hostile field... :P

Another option would be to keep DM, but take it from your tank and move it to an enchanter (once ya have enough XP)... This would Allow your tank to have massive stats (boosted to even massiver (it's a word now, cuz i say so) levels, via TSA/Elvens. Also allows your archer to have a MgS (if you can find/afford one).

Ulord[NK] April 19 2008 1:52 PM EDT

DM is critical for success with a 2 minion team. Sadly, that's still not enough kill slots for the top 20. You'll want to play all offensive and kill as fast as you can. DM lets you do that to a fair number of people up there, especially with MSK having trouble 1 shot killing now. ToE is always a good idea since evasion is fixed in ranged (you are hitting at least once now against mages right?). Go for the quick kill and don't look back :)

Sickone April 19 2008 2:43 PM EDT

Looking at how encumbrance works right now, I'd say staying single minion until the end of times might actually be a good idea.

Still, the way the ToE works (no armor/cape on carrier but extending aura) means you could improve your performance significantly by moving that ToE on a second minion (preferably a 20 HP enchanter) where you will move all EO/ED from the primary char... and slap on a good armor/cloak on the main char (TSA might be the best idea, but others work fine-ish too).

Soxjr April 19 2008 3:02 PM EDT

Thanks for all the great replies. Now to just let them sink in as I contemplate what I'm doing next.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Pqu">Convince Me!</a>