RoE use should be restricted (in General)
April 20 2008 8:35 PM EDT
I know a lot of threads have been created on the subject, but Little_Antony just exposed a real problem when he took the top spot and didn't stop using the RoE.
The problem is that anyone using any other type of tattoo or not using a tattoo at all has no hope of ever catching up to the top spot.
The RoE should not be the only option to even give other characters a chance to catch up to the top spot.
The obvious solution is to restrict RoE usage to characters not in the 6/20 range.
Some will argue that they can not catch up to the top spot without the a RoE. However, that argument is only valid if the top character is not also a RoE user.
Another solution, my personal favorite, would be to slightly modify the behavior of the RoE in the 6/20 range so that it wouldn't give more XP overall, but would still give 20% extra XP to the minion wearing it. That way characters in the 6/20 range could still use it to adjust XP amounts between minions.
April 20 2008 8:37 PM EDT
just use an roe too
April 20 2008 8:38 PM EDT
Bull3t F4c3, did you even read what I wrote?
If it were so simple to get one, then 'just using one too' would apply, but they aren't, so it doesn't.
Maybe making the RoE incompatible with the N*C bonus would go a ways towards ending the apparent imbalance with that item; you get one or the other.
I'm int eh 6/20 range, and I use the ROE. I do it because there's no other feasible way to catch up to the top spots even when they are NOT using the ROE.
LA using the ROE isn't as serious an issue as I think it could be because it means that he is not levelling his tattoo. Tattoo size, as we have seen, is MUCH MUCH more important than MPR size.
April 20 2008 8:47 PM EDT
until that extra size becomes important
April 20 2008 8:50 PM EDT
"Tattoo size, as we have seen, is MUCH MUCH more important than MPR size."
Why? In the 6/20 range, you get no negative rewards. How often does someone get rewards bonuses over 0%?
I am leveling a tattoo right now instead of using a RoE, but I created this thread because I am reconsidering it. What good is it to use a big tattoo if I get 0% rewards just like a RoE user? If I don't use a RoE, FTW will receiving 20% more XP than I do in every fight regardless of who I fight with my top 15 tattoo.
I think every tattoo user in the 6/20 range will have to say the same thing.
I would love to use a real good-sized tattoo rather than ROE but ...it's not possible right now. Have to pay debt first.
April 20 2008 9:17 PM EDT
"I would love to use a real good-sized tattoo rather than ROE "
Why? It will only slow you down. If I were you, I would keep using the RoE forever.
Simple Talion, because he can't beat tat users without one... even an undersized tattoo will allow him to beat me... but no tat no win.
It's one of the last bits of flexibility... shoo
April 20 2008 9:47 PM EDT
And so it continues..
Who cares? He still gets a 20% bonud.
April 20 2008 9:49 PM EDT
The RoE should be removed from the game altogether, or changed to just shift the exp onto that minion rather than giving a bonus. It creates more problems that it is worth imo.
April 20 2008 9:50 PM EDT
"Simple Talion, because he can't beat tat users without one... "
In less than a year, he will be to beat most of them... and he will still be the top player.
Remember that the char was only created a few months ago. It will keep growing 20% faster than yours if the RoE stays equipped.
"It's one of the last bits of flexibility... shoo"
No, you shoo. The suggestion I made in my first post maintains the flexibility factor. So that is not an issue.
Right now, if you want to make top MPR, you need to use a RoE. There is no other way. That, in my opinion, is a big lack of flexibility.
April 20 2008 9:52 PM EDT
Also, I think what Glory wrote makes a lot of sense.
Change the RoE to a tunic that allows the wearer to get more XP than the other minions without increases the total character's XP overall.
"In less than a year, he will be to beat most of them... and he will still be the top player."
Doubt it, a tattoo used properly can give more benefit than 20% more MPR.
"Remember that the char was only created a few months ago. It will keep growing 20% faster than yours if the RoE stays equipped."
But every one else will be growing their tats. Ranger flirted with using the RoE but returned to using a tattoo... draw your own conclusions.
Of course if he can get a big tattoo at a later date then you may be correct, quite a big if though.
i used to be concerned about this until the testing on a sunday afternoon a few months back. what we found was that ranger was getting, iirc, about a 16% higher xp rewards than my character due to fighting higher level characters than i could. with that being said, if ftw is equipping a roe and fighting down, he's not truly getting a 20 percent bonus over everyone else.
the other side of this coin is that anyone in 6/20 who cannot fight the same people as the top dogs will not grow as fast as them. with all of that being said, if you cannot get a character through n*b into the very top ranks where you can hang with the big guys, then you might as well try again unless you can content yourself with being "almost" at the top.
all of this is based on everyone fighting all of their fights on a daily basis.
April 20 2008 10:14 PM EDT
The 2 previous posts make some sense. Some comments though...
"Doubt it, a tattoo used properly can give more benefit than 20% more MPR."
Doubt it. In the 6/20 range, that extra 20% XP, although it can come close to being matched, cannot be beat.
Although the gap between Koy and FTW seems to be lessening but that might be because FTW was retrained a few times.
Regardless, dudemus has managed to convince me to stick with the big tattoo for a while longer.
April 20 2008 10:47 PM EDT
Little_Anthony doesn't have a large tattoo, and I'm sure he's regretting that somewhat, it's a pretty big trade off to forgo tattoo growth (especially in 6/20 where your pr doesn't make a difference, but who you beat does).
If the RoE is overpowered in 6/20, why isn't everyone using it?
Tell me how 20% more mpr can make up completely for not having Endurance for example? Tattoos are essentially equivalent to mpr.
The only advantage about the RoE is that now Little_Anthony can buy a large tattoo, 1. if he can find one, 2. at a great monetary cost. Anything at a great monetary cost IMO is not overpowered.
April 20 2008 10:54 PM EDT
Right now FTW is not fighting down any more then I am.
His opponents include some of the very top characters like Lega, Failure, Edyit and Oxcha.
Looking at his MTL compared to Koy's I can see him growin 2-3k more per day.
I personally voted in the past for N*B characters to not be able to use the ROE as it skews things and stops them from developing a tattoo as they should.
Let only non bonus characters be able to use it to catch up or even a character out.
As someone pointed out, I tried the ROE but found the TOE growth to be far better for Koy's overall effectiveness.
I do, however, feel for those in the "dead zone" as it is now harder to reach the magical 6 BA regeneration rate. You have to now worry about FTW's more advanced growth compared to what Koy was growing, plus the negative challenge bonuses occurring at that level.
IMO, something has to change about the "dead zone" and quickly to make the game more playable at that level.
"Right now FTW is not fighting down any more then I am."
you, though, are fighting the number 1 mpr and winning continually. the number 1 mpr is not able to fight and win continually against number 2 though. only time will tell how much of a difference it makes, if any, but i think it will make some kind of difference. i may start tracking both of your mtl differences on a daily basis and see if his is 20 percent higher than yours or if it is less.
April 20 2008 11:02 PM EDT
""Doubt it, a tattoo used properly can give more benefit than 20% more MPR."
Doubt it. In the 6/20 range, that extra 20% XP, although it can come close to being matched, cannot be beat. "
Even my ToE is big enough to cap most all damage in the game... So basically, every minion on my team has 4 times as much HP as the stats will report... If I ink to a DDF, I have nearly 3.9m worth of DD and 1m HP... If I ink to a ToA, I can gain over 3m levels in ST/DX still boostable by equipment... If I ink to a RoBF, I can cut nearly a mil off a direct damage shot, and have an attack capable of 800k damage /round with no chance of realiation... My tat would be considered quite undersized for his level...
Imagine what a tat fitting of his level (5-6m+) could accomplish for him... I think the tradeoff is fair enough ^_^
April 20 2008 11:07 PM EDT
It does look like draco is selling his tatt. Given enough time and the usd spending zeal of LA, he will purchase a big tattoo...
the only reason why i didn't make an offer Draco's tattoo (Drooling!) 'cause of debt and i want to make my EC a little bit more recognizable. But Comrade TH is right. even an okie ToE would have a greater effect than 500k mpr extra right now.
more info about tattoo vs. RoE... LA has an offensive draw against Talion in the last 24h (only 1 attack, so no major data can be drawn, but I would imagine that even one draw shoes how far a tat can take someone...)
Wow lot of debate on ths i c. I notice everytime someone is perceived to have an advantage and someone isn't enjoying it cause they chose a different direction to go in they complain and ask for change so that they can bring that other person down and imazingly give themselves back a percieved advantage. I do agree with ranger that the dead zone needs a look at to make it more playable as time spent in it is getting longer but otherwise except the decisions u made and stop complaining cause some of us are getting tired of it.
April 21 2008 6:50 AM EDT
I completely agree.
That is why I choose to grow Steeds rather then use a ROE.
Almost everyone has a choice.
Even LA stated that if he can get a decent TOE he would use that.
"LA has an offensive draw against Talion in the last 24h."
not anymore :P hehehehe
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