Evasion 7,468,800 3,890,000 239 184 (in General)

QBRanger May 6 2008 3:59 PM EDT

This on a 4 minion equal xp character.

With 1.5M HP on it also, so less then 18% of total xp in in evasion.

How can anyone at the top hit this guy?

I hit him about 15% of the time with my large tank.

Is one forced now to use a TOA to try to hit evasion?

Yes, I have a larger strength but need it to carry my MH with its +225 that whiffs more then it hits. Lower str=higher dex=more ENC and less dex/str/AC. A nice vicious cycle.

I pump EC and get a 50% return. I pump dex and get a 160% max with high items. This minion is getting over 100%. AND minus PTH. How can any tank, much less a non-usd one keep up?

C'mon, now!

QBRanger May 6 2008 4:04 PM EDT

And for those stating that EC is more effective:

The highest EC is 3.2M by me. His native evasion is 3.8M. He is getting more benefit from the AoF then the negative to the defensive dex.

And the EC does not lower the PTH evasion effect.

Suggestion for evasion:

Do NOT let the AoF boost it.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 6 2008 4:08 PM EDT

for the aof, i would suggest toning it down to its original intent of 2% first and seeing how that plays out, especially during the rerelease (hint, hint!)

Cube May 6 2008 4:10 PM EDT

I think the problem is more with how ENC is implemented. Single minion teams got a huge advantage from it. As a four minion team I had to drop my tank/wall's weapons due to ENC. The only way I could keep it was a ToA and I prefer the ToE. Now single minions can fit all the weapons they want under their Enc. Look at JS, he's got a giant bow for his size way over his Weapon Allowance, and giant DBs, and it fit neatly under his ENC. Yes, he told me he can't fit the DBs he wants to buy under his ENC... but those are massive, no way can a four minion team keep up.

Basically, I'm saying the more minions a team has, there should be some sort of bonus to Encumbrance that you can apply to one minion or something.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 6 2008 4:15 PM EDT

trading the no-brainer of additional kill slots for strategic use of encumbrance in your multi-minion team is actually the first benefit single-minion or few-minion teams have gotten in the game in many moons and an unexpected one given jon's feelings toward single-minion teams. kudos to jon, even if it was unintentional.

Cube May 6 2008 4:27 PM EDT

I seem to remember reading this thread a while back; The Demise of the Front Meat Shield

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] May 6 2008 4:29 PM EDT

Theres actually 20.7% Of my exp in my Evasion... but also keep in mind that I have 44.3% of my experience into HP 22.9% in my Amf and only 4.8% of my experience in Str hehe. I took sacrifices to do what I have... and my fightlist has taken a beating due to the sacrifices.

QBOddBird May 6 2008 4:36 PM EDT

As Ranger says, I don't think the AoF should boost Evasion. It should have all the same skill boosting gears as tanks do (EC, EG, EB) so that if a tank dedicates itself to beating Evasion it can.

Lord Bob May 6 2008 4:46 PM EDT

Easy fix: Let Evasion decay in melee rounds.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 6 2008 5:16 PM EDT

and strength and dexterity, those poor minions must get tired after so many rounds!

QBsutekh137 May 6 2008 5:20 PM EDT

Looks like the layers are striking here too... Like with damage reduction, where adding layers makes damage reduction frameworks samey and too-easy to implement, the layers of augmentation (via equipment) are providing too much enhancement. Being able to double the effective level of a stat is insane, and it would appear that even ENC does not help with that (Draco's items adding to Evasion are barely Top Ten in net worth...)

QBRanger May 6 2008 5:25 PM EDT

and mages, all that spell casting:)

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] May 6 2008 5:27 PM EDT

i had posted this in another thread today, but thought it might not kill this one!

"amf seems to be pretty well balanced without being overpowered. if the name was changed from evasion to force field or some such, evasion could be modeled as an amf for physical damage? "

the numbers would have to be adapted to physical damage somehow, but just the basic framework of needing a whole heckuva lot of xp to nullify, but the added benefit of reflecting damage is interesting to me.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] May 6 2008 5:34 PM EDT

Well you could, might, need, train dex for those nice CTH hits, it is not much but, but with that massive dex of yours you only need 5 hits to kill him off?

But the whole melee-ranged / evasion is pretty much imbalanced.

For one, if someone is actually able to hit an evasion minion, he/she does so for a good amount of damage. Evasion minions, normally lacking in AC and HP, tend to die rather quickly. But once a tank team is past the evasion minion I see triple hits and even quadruple hits on basic enchanters. Once a tank is past those, coming to the primary damage dealer, they tend to make short meat out of them within a few rounds.

So what if evasion actually helped in reducing damage for the half and reducing hits for the half, would that be better?

And the spellchecker is rather a dumb thingie why doesn't it know the word: "imbalanced"?

QBRanger May 6 2008 5:58 PM EDT

I think evasion as a "glancing blow" is a good idea.

However, I would like to see suggestions on how much damage reduction is suggested.

Combine Draco's 1.5M HP enchanter, backed by a TOE and give it a MS to get to 200AC and perhaps nothing will change--stalemate city.
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