Why not remove the randomness from fight rewards ? (in General)
May 26 2008 1:56 PM EDT
In the (not even so long) run, it all goes back to the average anyway.
Its only purpose is to obfuscate and confuse people as to the exact rewards they get.
The fact that we have the challenge bonus displayed properly is even more counter-intuitive.
I'd say removing all randomness from fight rewards would be the best thing.
Can you give one reason why the randomness should stay ?
I mean, other than "because Jon likes it" ?
Not that he'd care what I think, or a small portion of us think, I'm merely curious how YOU feel about it.
"Its only purpose is to obfuscate and confuse people as to the exact rewards they get."
That's the way Jon likes it.
May 26 2008 1:57 PM EDT
And like I said, I am not interested in "how Jon likes it".
I'm interested in how YOU like it.
Not that it matters, like I said, just curious.
i would think that reducing it greatly or removing it would be good for the game. randomness does allow for a margin of doubt with results of a few fights. when we went to the 20 minute refreshes though, it really makes every single battle matter that much more. if i cannot beat someone 100 percent of the time, i take them off my fightlist, there is just really no reason not too in the 6/20 range.
May 26 2008 2:36 PM EDT
I'd think it would be more boring that way, getting the same rewards every single time. This game isn't really fun to start with, but having things not spelled out for you makes it bearable.
I like the randomness, for the same reasons that I like how many of the game mechanics are not shared by Jon. As a community we must figure out how things work, but we will never be truly sure of the mechanics because of that randomness.
A game without randomness is a dangerous game. What's to stop us from having one person fightlist, and what's to stop us from forcing others to have a one person fightlist to compete?
And I think the variations in growth are healthy in the game as well. A perfectly predictable growth would be very frightening not to mention boring. Randomness causes some variation and not to mention a little margin for error for Jon.
May 26 2008 2:43 PM EDT
Then why do you play Rocket?
i like it. I think Jon added something to the game for the people that just play it to play it .... not play it to be the absolute best. It helps a bit expecialy with a NCB and some sort of CB. Just my little input though : )
hmm, somehow i read the original post as damage randomness and replied thusly. the reward randomness is really of no concern for me, i would like to see the damage randomness greatly reduced or removed though!
May 26 2008 3:12 PM EDT
It's fine with me, plays true to real life randomness. :)
May 26 2008 3:37 PM EDT
I prefer the randomness because after a certain pr your fightlist would probably come down to a small amount of "optimised" opponents. People would be ignoring other possible targets because of their low pr and awards, the randomness helps balance it out a little and stop people in the 2m score range from being farmed for more battles than the amount of ba they spend in a day.
If randomized fight rewards were removed, then you would know exactly which opponent would give you the highest rewards. As it is right now that remains unclear.
May 26 2008 5:25 PM EDT
Rocket, it would only be samey if you fought the same people every time.
For those who DO fight the same people every time...trust me. It ain't the "randomness" keeping us here.
I am positively, absolutely, 100% on board with this suggestion.
May 26 2008 5:30 PM EDT
Sorry for the double post... But Nem, you make it sound like that is a bad thing.
Why _shouldn't_ someone know the best opponents to fight? If anyone does the legwork on that, actually searching around for a good opponent to fight, why shouldn't they know who a good target is? Why shouldn't they reap those rewards?
Soooo much Kool-Aid gets consumed around here... For God's sake, people....just because it is what you are used to, and is status quo, does NOT make it "right", "proper", or even "obvious". Use the gray matter you were born with!
I'm not saying its a bad thing. I am just saying that it would make it too easy. Right now, if you had one target who has a higher pr but isn't in a clan and another one who is in a clan but lower pr, you would have to do some testing to see which one gives better rewards. If you take away randomness you can see immediately which one is better for rewards.
As it is right now you can still get those answers but it takes more work and isn't as clear cut. Of course there are targets that are obviously way better.
well if the randomness is removed there will be a shift towards a more binomial gameplay. You would be able to look at your neighbor and say, I will never be able to catch up to this guy because his one target fightlist is better than mine, or you could look up months in advance and say, my NCB is pointless.
Personally, I enjoy the unpredictability or fight rewards, I like how sometimes I get a few dozen thousand extra CBD on some days or less on others. I like somewhat of an erratic fightlist that encourages, a larger fightlist as opposed to a single "good" one since I can't hope for a challenge bonus.
May 26 2008 6:33 PM EDT
If people knew exactly who gave the best rewards from moment to moment, and I mean everybody, not just people like Ranger who do put in the effort on these things, then there would be more temptation to have the smallest possible fightlist which would force those with the shortest lists to pretty much be on all the time, hammering those 1 or 2 targets.
I see that as bad for two reasons. Being one of those targets would mean it's practically impossible to get a moment to fight without being farmed and also, those with a short fightlist may be more tempted to not do the keypresses themselves and only turn up for bot-checks.
Both of these are highly undesirable in my opinion.
May 26 2008 8:02 PM EDT
Exactly, Yukk. The real work is in working a small fight list, not in discovering the targets.
You made my point precisely.
Make work where work is due.
May 26 2008 8:18 PM EDT
"If randomized fight rewards were removed, then you would know exactly which opponent would give you the highest rewards."
After two or three fights and a minimal amount of calculations, you already know what the average CBD/XP rewards are.
It's only a matter of slight inconvenience.
May 26 2008 9:15 PM EDT
...with the REAL work being maintaining a smaller fightlist and/or having to hunt for new targets anyway.
I am vehement agreement with you (and apparently feeling the need to finish/flesh out your posts *smile*), Sickone.
May 26 2008 9:19 PM EDT
As much as I hate getting 3200 exp off of a guy one fight, and 2000 the next, I still like the randomness. I think every game needs just the right amount of randomness to keep it being more than a game of 'who can solve the equation?'
May 26 2008 9:24 PM EDT
That part of the equation's been solved, Paddy Boy. That's Sickone's point, in a nutshell.
The randomness is only an annoying (read: donkey work) part of the flow here.
I'll add, Jonathan has removed donkey-work from the game before. So there is precedence for this. When something no longer serves a real purpose (because the Morlocks are savvy to it) and the rabble makes enough noise, (Morlocks ROAR!), things get changed.
Or, we can just sit here and drink Kool-Aid. Mmmmm, I like the Lemon-Lime. Do they still make that flavor? So eerily green. I especially like the part where it tastes like neither lemon nor lime. Nor any combination of the two. Savory.
I don't believe randomness should be kept for the sake of nostalgia. I've watched MMOs fail because they were too simplistic, and because everything about the game was figured out so easily.
I don't think a small fightlist is the way to go, I think if anything, the game should encourage versatility. Though it is possible to get a rough idea of what is the best fightlist there is no certainty. If anything I think their should be an increase of randomness. What if all the top ten found out there was one "perfect target" how will anyone catch up?
May 26 2008 10:14 PM EDT
Well, you can easily increase randomness in the actual fights, everything from even larger ranges in damages dealt and chances to hit and so on and so forth.
So, yes, I don't have a problem with two certain characters fighting, and the first being able to win a battle but lose another one, with the occasional draw every now and then.
Or you can leave it all exactly like it is now, who wins, who loses, who draws.
But randomness in CBD/XP rewards ?
Like it's been said already at least a couple of times, the EXACT value of average rewards is already known, all you need to do is fight a couple of times, write down XP/CBD rewards, and do a little bit of math.
Removing THAT particular randomness from the game would only serve to more easily show people who either don't bother reading the wiki or are annoyed they have to be whipping up the calculator to figure out what actual rewards they get.
If anything, it also removes the tiniest bit of server load too : it removes one completely unnecessary pair of random number generation.
May 26 2008 11:38 PM EDT
I don't particularly care for games where I get 32 xp / 32 xp / 32 xp.
If you already have it calculated out, and 'all the legwork' has been done, why should it be displayed as the average? If, as you say, you could then pick your best reward opponents and start hammering at 2-3: why aren't you? Sutekh, you say that this would promote more 'hard work' because they would be hammering at those 2-3. As far as I can tell, there's no different situation except that it makes it easier for people to see those 2-3 they ought to be hammering at.
No, I don't want this because it looks far too precise and exact.
No, I don't want this because it actually removes the amount of work players must do to optimize their rewards.
No, I don't want this because I've seen games where it was the case and I hated them.
And, finally, no. I don't want this because nobody's posted a particularly good reason as to WHY it should be there.
"I'd say removing all randomness from fight rewards would be the best thing.
Can you give one reason why the randomness should stay ?
I mean, other than "because Jon likes it" ?
Not that he'd care what I think, or a small portion of us think, I'm merely curious how YOU feel about it. "
I honestly feel that this question should be flipped around.
Why is removing all randomness from fight rewards the best thing?
Can you give one honestly GOOD reason why the randomness should go?
I mean, other than "because Sickone dislikes it"?
;'P That's truly how I see it.
May 26 2008 11:40 PM EDT
"Like it's been said already at least a couple of times, the EXACT value of average rewards is already known, all you need to do is fight a couple of times, write down XP/CBD rewards, and do a little bit of math. "
So why do we want people to have to do less math to figure out better rewards?
This is the same reason I hate the 6/20 BA regen - it's more of the 'Less work, more reward' mentality IMO.
I liked it better when it was competitive up top.
I liked it better when you had to use C+Enter or down+Enter and had to see when to scroll back up, whereas now you can turn around, watch TV, and hold down the 'Enter' button until you hear a noise from Fex's script saying you've got a botcheck.
How BOTTY is that?
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