AMF looking strange... (in General)


Relic June 19 2008 1:17 AM EDT

Immanence cast Antimagic Field on Butter (0.36)

Ranged Combat
Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (92987)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [9961], Immanence [16133], Willpower [10938]

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (99629)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [17837], Immanence [22198]

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (106270)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [116841]

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (112912)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [82881]

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (119554)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [165532]

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (221397)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [260047]

Melee Combat
Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (221397)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [330736]

****************************************************

Ok, first of all, if FB has reduced damage in ranged that increases as ranged continues, should not the AMF backlash also be reduced during those rounds? I am not seeing that from my battles.

Secondly, with an effective cast of .36, I am taking close to as much damage (in some cases more) than I am even hitting for. There is no way that this character has the level of exp trained into AMF that I have into FB.

Lastly, FB just plain sucks. Why is the power reduced in ranged? SoD, Bows, and MM have no such reduction that I am aware of. Why is FB that way? The only reason FB is a viable option for growing a character is because there are enough dolts and completely retarded strategy characters out there that you can maintain a good bonus for quite a while. The same bonus could be maintained with any relatively decent strategy.

</endofrant>

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 19 2008 1:20 AM EDT

umm I see amf increasing

Does the person your hitting have another form of damage reduction? Is it possible the 50% fluctuation in DD is causing what you're seeing?

Draugluin June 19 2008 1:22 AM EDT

From your numbers, isn't AMF backlash lowered, and increasing as the rounds wear on?

Secondly, the AMF backlash is based on base damage, and AMF effect Quite probably, your FB is reduced by other things that reduce it to merely somewhat higher than your AMF backlash damage.

Doesn't ranged reduction apply to all ranged weapons?

And yes, FB sucks.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 19 2008 1:26 AM EDT

everything actually has ranged penalties if I remember right...

FB and MM have similar penalties to the to hit penalties that ranged weapons experience...

Tyriel [123456789] June 19 2008 1:27 AM EDT

"I am taking close to as much damage (in some cases more) than I am even hitting for."

AC, ToE, and randomness can do that to a person.

Relic June 19 2008 1:29 AM EDT

I think the biggest gripe would be these rounds...

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (92987)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [9961], Immanence [16133], Willpower [10938]

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (99629)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [17837], Immanence [22198]

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (106270)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [116841]

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (112912)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [82881]

I am being hit for 3 times my damage in the first round, just under 3 times my damage in the second round, about the same damage in the third round, and MORE damage in the 4th round against a .36 AMF effective cast. That is simply retarded, because if there is any other layers of reduction in my FB damage output, then since AMF returns the damage you "would" have done at a reduced level of output, then it follows that AMF would also be lowered the same way.

How can it return damage greater than is outputted with .36? It makes no sense.

QBOddBird June 19 2008 1:30 AM EDT

I would just like to take a moment to say

Relic's right, Fireball sucks

Steel Familiar and Halidon take the lead!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 19 2008 1:34 AM EDT

SF? it has the same problem...

Relic: you're complaining about things that have been the same way for years...

You can't be that far from switching back to tank.

Relic June 19 2008 1:38 AM EDT

I am pointing out what I consider silliness in regards to balance. AMF should be effective on the reduced DD output after reduction layers have been applied. If I cast for 1 mil FB with no reduction layers, and 500K after reduction layers, then the AMF backlash should be calculated based on the 500K damage output, not the 1 mil prior to reduction layer affects.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 19 2008 1:44 AM EDT

hey I'm all for it... but I don't see it happening

#1 It penalizes people who use damage reduction in combination with AMF

#2 It's could be more work for the server

#3 AMF keeps smaller DD users from beating larger chars, your change would make this much much easier

#4 Ranger would lose to me

Draugluin June 19 2008 1:44 AM EDT

But that logic would similarly seem to indicate that AMF should be calculated according to DD final damage, which would cause AMF to be overwhelmingly powerful. For the current AMF effect calculations at least.

Relic June 19 2008 1:50 AM EDT

#1 It penalizes people who use damage reduction in combination with AMF

how so? you still hit them back for a ratio of the damage you would have taken but didnt due to AMF (the effect is more fair in my scenario)

#2 It's could be more work for the server

nah, it is being calculated already for reduction layers

#3 AMF keeps smaller DD users from beating larger chars, your change would make this much much easier

no it wouldnt, if your DD wasnt big enough the AMF would still kill you

#4 Ranger would lose to me

no idea on this one, I am not sure I even want to get into that

Draughlin, I have no idea what you mean.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] June 19 2008 2:23 AM EDT

The way I understand AMF is this:

You cast a powerful spell. I cast an Antimagic Field, and the spell hits that first, and some percentage of the full spell bounces back and hits you. The part that gets through the Field then hits me and is subject to my damage reduction.

If it were to hit back based on actual damage, that would be like you hit me with a spell, my armor blocks a lot of it, and then I somehow have an antimagic field somewhere between my armor and my skin that will reflect a little part of the reduced damage. Basically, my AC would be protecting you.

INDColtsFan18 June 19 2008 2:24 AM EDT

I Agree! More FB! The only thing it seems good for is growing, theres no chance to survive at higher more strategic ranks.

TrueDevil [AAA] June 19 2008 2:31 AM EDT

Not just FB, MM low damage is somewhat pretty sucks too because when a person using RoBF with a little amf and some AC, you'll be doing no damage and will die without doing any damage...

The friendly damage of FB is even more ridiculous....

I'm thinking to switch to CoC , but the mageseeker will definitely kill me, it's just not possible to train HP, tons of DD, and evasion enough to dodge some of the mageseeker out there in the top 100...

Ryuzaki June 19 2008 2:53 AM EDT

I'm not exactly sure why your complaining about balance with this, you are still beating me despite my layers of reduction and you still have less mpr than me. Not only that protection just got removed so your doing quite a bit more than before.

Also your a mage! As I tank I'm going through far more problems with enc and weapon allowance, having to choose between melee and ranged. Heck, my char has had an enc of .3 or higher for a large portion of its lifespan. As such I think I would have far more reason for complaint than you would.

Also how does it make sense to have amf calculated after damage reduction? Its one of the initial layers of damage reduction in and off itself. With it calculated after I wouldn't be able to keep mages within my toe cap at all, amf would basically be worthless.

TrueDevil [AAA] June 19 2008 5:06 AM EDT

Ryuzaki, it's not 100 % true that his mpr is lower than yours, you have to calculate it by removing the Decay, EC minion (because nothing to be reduced from his stats..), I'm just guessing here but that minion must have at least contribute 100 k mpr ? or did you just add it recently ?

and the only reason he can win is because you don't have a bow/SoD... just try and switch the melee weapon to same nw ranged weapon as your current melee weapon... I'll bet you can finish him in 1 round...

QBOddBird June 19 2008 9:46 AM EDT

Hell, Ryuzaki would win if she'd just tag a little more HP on her minions.

You can't expect your damage reduction to handle FB/CoC if you don't put enough HP around to keep the damage spread.

"he only reason FB is a viable option for growing a character is because there are enough dolts and completely retarded strategy characters out there that you can maintain a good bonus for quite a while."

He did clarify that there were some characters ripe for the beating. ;)

TheHatchetman June 19 2008 10:04 AM EDT

"Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (119554)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [165532]

Butter takes damage from his own Fireball (221397)!
Butter's Fireball hit Punishment [260047] "

Right there. HoC moved up your "first round of melee". so the backlash was reduced for your first 5 rounds, then came calling in the 6th.

Ryuzaki June 19 2008 1:36 PM EDT

Yeah, I guess having a ranged weapon would work, but as of right now enc is stopping me from having both.
Also, since when did I become a she? I am now extremely confused. I thought this sorta thing only happened to 3/4ths.

QBOddBird June 19 2008 1:40 PM EDT

Right, right, you told me you were a dude. I just got confused by your former user pic. ;'P

Ryuzaki June 19 2008 1:42 PM EDT

What former user pic? are you confusing me for ryosuke?

QBOddBird June 19 2008 1:47 PM EDT

Hmmm, I think I am.

Damn you people with your funny names! They're too similar

three4thsforsaken June 19 2008 2:25 PM EDT

only happens to me? I understand you are confused, but about my gender? Should I enlighten you, baby?
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