petition: no more ugly week (in General)

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 30 2008 3:04 PM EDT

The poll didn't show WHO didn't want the retrain.

I think it's important to note.

I think the free retrain takes fun out that I consider to be the core of the game. Please make this the last one.

QBOddBird June 30 2008 3:04 PM EDT


QBJohnnywas June 30 2008 3:05 PM EDT

I was one. Lets hope it's the last one. And lets not bother with the blacksmith/weapon equivalent that people are asking for. Tanks can disenchant and buy a new weapon. No to 'free disenchant'@!

QBRanger June 30 2008 3:07 PM EDT

. "And lets not bother with the blacksmith/weapon equivalent that people are asking for. Tanks can disenchant and buy a new weapon. No to 'free disenchant'@"

certainly at a 50% loss.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 30 2008 3:10 PM EDT

I will seriously start asking for posts to be deleted if this thread gets derailed...

INDColtsFan18 June 30 2008 3:12 PM EDT

I think it should be shortened to 3 days next time.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 30 2008 3:16 PM EDT

INDColtsFan18, 3:12 PM EDT
I think it should be shortened to 3 days next time.

This is a petition for NO more retrain, not a shorter one. And Ranger, I think he meant, if Jon gives in and does the disenchant request at 100% instead of 50% disenchant.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] June 30 2008 3:17 PM EDT

No retrain!

Windwalker June 30 2008 3:38 PM EDT

Man up ;)

AdminLamuness June 30 2008 3:39 PM EDT

<insert Lammie signature here>

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] June 30 2008 3:53 PM EDT

Stick with what you got or take the hit.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] June 30 2008 4:00 PM EDT


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 30 2008 4:04 PM EDT

I don't think these changes really warranted a free retrain.

It's not like an underlying mechanic got changed. Like Weapons moving to linear damage or the like. Or even an item totally changed, like the CBF to RBF.

It's was just adjustments to existing stats and the introduction of new items.

Granted lots of those. ;)

Tchoob June 30 2008 4:34 PM EDT

Definitely signed. For me that's part of strategy - if you are (ab)using a dominant tactics, be prepared to take the hit when it's nerfed.

(CB1)logan666 [Jago] June 30 2008 4:37 PM EDT

Man up Nancy!

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 [SHIELD] June 30 2008 4:38 PM EDT


AdminQBVerifex June 30 2008 5:58 PM EDT

I'm not signing this silly petition as this is a great educational tool in the complexities of CB, anyone who thinks otherwise is short-sighted!

{cb1}Linguala June 30 2008 6:01 PM EDT

BootyGod June 30 2008 6:29 PM EDT

Fools. You can't truly test a new game addition unless people USE it. The only way to get people to use it was take away the risk.

Get OVER it. It's a free retrain for EVERYONE.

I swear, every retrain I don't seem to gain or lose any amount of people on my fight list. Free retrains are FUN!

You say "well, heck, it takes away from strategy because they can simply use trial and error" Against what, exactly? The flavor of the moment you're currently trained on?

You say no for whatever reason, but they're not valid reasons. They're incredibly subjective reasons and don't pertain to the overall structure of the game. We've all grown so used to the fact that we have to spend forever and ever and SOOO much effort to get anywhere that any shortcuts are considered blasphemy.

I just simply don't understand why you could DISLIKE this! If nothing else you could try looking at it objectively and realize that this is the best way for Jon to get a new spell tested out. How many of you would have seriously taken the jump into a new spell at a 2% DD rate. You're talking hundreds of k of experience lost on a GUESS.

What's the core of your game novice? A mindless drill of burning BA where each of us has a setup that cannot change because the penalty is so great.

Every retrain we do increases the chance that 4 months of our CB effort are WASTED. The N*B moving to 6 months may change alot of this, but I'm still unsure.

Until then, I'll continue to do every crazy thing I want. And if someone beats you, move on. Change your strategy.

Seems to me like people enjoy relying on the retrain cost as a way to use their strategies. How to put this.... You design a strategy that no one can beat. But the REASON they cannot beat it is because the retrain cost to do it would be too great. NOT because they can't think of a way.

PotatoHead June 30 2008 6:31 PM EDT

<Chain_Handcuffs> I'm going to get flamed so hard.

:::::Flames CH::::: TAKE THAT.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 30 2008 6:38 PM EDT

fine, remove the penalty all together and allow a retrain once a week...

BootyGod June 30 2008 6:41 PM EDT

You know novice, that's hardly a compelling argument. There is a sound reason for it to be the way it is.

A free retrain every few months (every 6-12 depending on changes) keeps things fresh and fun and makes people constantly have to generate new ideas.

Having them weekly would completely undo the point.

Currently, it all comes down to rewards and standings. To generate the highest possible net rewards, you decide between getting together rewards without changing your strategy, or changing and taking the loss but doing so on the grounds that the change would increase your rewards.

It's a GOOD balance between fun and change and having to make tough decisions.

Yukk June 30 2008 7:05 PM EDT

I voted for no free retrain, but I did suggest that weapon swapping be allowed. It's easy for a mage to retrain. Oh, I'll just swap my FB for a SG at exactly 0 loss.
For a tank though, Jon introduced a couple of new weapons which might be nice to try. Great, but if someone like Ranger with 200M+ invested in their weapon and competing at a certain level is to try a different weapon they suddenly have to switch to a weapon half as effective AND if it doesn't work, then what ? There's no free retrain for tanks. Free retrain is a mage only option. Well, unless the tanks just throw away all their gear and retrain to a mage.

Free retain my eye.

QBOddBird June 30 2008 7:06 PM EDT

Retrains blow in my opinion, CH, and everyone has their opinions.

If you like them, don't start an argument and throw his thread off-topic, just don't sign. Pretty simple.

BootyGod June 30 2008 7:07 PM EDT

Deal with me voicing my opinion.

That simple.

Come on. Do you honestly expect to start a poll to stop something and then not allow a counter argument? That's like voting for president when there is only one person allowed to run.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] June 30 2008 7:09 PM EDT

you had a poll... you lost... and STILL got a retrain

Let me have my damned petition.

QBRanger June 30 2008 7:09 PM EDT

Thank you Yukk for understanding where I am coming from.

This is great for mage and allows mild tweaks to tanks. However, it is really beneficial to mages if tanks are locked into their weapon as a lot of us are.

BootyGod June 30 2008 7:09 PM EDT

It's your's. Let me have my damn post.

QBOddBird June 30 2008 7:11 PM EDT

"Deal with me voicing my opinion. "

Make your own thread then, please, and let novice have his petition.

QBRanger June 30 2008 7:14 PM EDT

IN response to the topic of the thread.

I will sign this petition due to the fact it is primarily a mage only benefical thing.

Make it tanks and mages benefit equally and perhaps throw in free tattoo inking and I will then say it is ok.

Yukk June 30 2008 7:20 PM EDT

Agreed Ranger. It's not really a retrain without being able to change all of that. Sure, we can re-ink tats a couple of times for a scant $1M, so that's not a huge barrier, but the weapon thing is a show-stopper. If I could switch weapons right now, I could throw away my useless ELB, lose the useless archery skill, switch to a SoD, try swapping my VB out for one of the shiny new weapons and THEN we'd be talking retrain. Right now, what can a tank do ? Untrain ST ? DX ? HP ? Archery ? Yeah, right.
I voted no retrain just because I thought everyone should man up, but since we got one it would be nice to participate.

TheHatchetman July 2 2008 10:40 PM EDT

"this is a great educational tool in the complexities of CB, anyone who thinks otherwise is short-sighted!"

How exactly do you forsee score recovering?

"Fools. You can't truly test a new game addition unless people USE it. The only way to get people to use it was take away the risk."

Or to "man up"... ;) I personally retrained a few times during the month just to try stuff out. When new stuff comes along, there will always be those like myself willing to play with fire, even at the risk of being burned, just for the chance we may one day very well "invent gunpowder"... As far as the stuff that is already in existence, do your research, know your stuff, determine whether or not the penalty is worth it. As it stands, the answer is always no because people feel they can rely on a free retrain to show up at some point... Without that, people would take the time to figure out some stuff before retraining. Putting some thought into a strategy game isn't very much to ask, is it?

As it stands, everyone in 6/20 is easily capable of hitting at least 95% of their BA (with occasional exceptions, of course), and challenge bonus is practically nonexistant above 1.5m MPR... So everyone is growing at the exact same rate, with the exception of NS and LA who use RoEs... The CB T-shirt is the only item that cannot be obtained cheaply and easily (3m to get any item in existance *is* cheap, don't even begin to say otherwise :P), and net worth is capped via encumbrance... Items are just as easily sold as they are bought in *most* cases (i know your 700m NSCs and 30b MH aren't selling, but you get my point here)...

This leaves a character's strategy as the only thing that can set it apart from other teams. Those with a sharper mind for strategy would have the advantage here. With free retrains, even that is lost. Everyone is on a perfectly level and even playing field with everyone else (I'm sorry, but in any sort of competitive activity, there is such a thing as *too* evenly matched... The rate things are going, won't be too too long until CarnageBlender2 has ended in a stalemate :(

From what I've heard about CB1 being destroyed due to an entirely unlevel playing field, armor invincibility, teams doing billions of damage, no bonuses for new chars/users, and no limit to USD usage. And what I'm seeing now with everything being so perfectly even to the point that nothing matters any more. I'm really hoping it doesn't take CB3 to find the proper balance of fairness and possible earned advantages :(

As for the thread;

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] July 2 2008 10:44 PM EDT

Voted. Again.

th00p July 2 2008 10:50 PM EDT

No more ugly week:

Are we voting for a 7 day ban of novice?

Wizard'sFirstRule July 3 2008 12:50 AM EDT

yes, the more I think of it, the more I think there should be a weapon artist (with whatever names). weapons have since moved from the days where its just a base stat to having a moderate array of abilities. It is only fair that tanks have the option of trying them out like a mage can test various DD spells. I have a feeling that a 5% of NW fee + whatever partial points (from the different NW curve) would be fair, although it is just an arbitary number on my part.

Paddy Boy July 3 2008 6:28 AM EDT

I say NO RETRAINS AT ALL. But I know that won't happen. So at least don't give them out for free.

Most games with any type of progression, (leveling etc.) lock you into what you choose, That should be they way it is.

If you're a FB mage and suddenly FB is useless, start a new char. If you were at the top with that strat, it was probably overpowered and now everyone has a chance again.

It does away with the NUB/NCB whining and much more. It makes the top a very precarious position, as it damn well should be.

BrandonLP July 3 2008 12:19 PM EDT

"Fools. You can't truly test a new game addition unless people USE it. The only way to get people to use it was take away the risk."'

Because the game is incredibly stagnant and no one ever starts over using the NCB to their advantage. Also, to further drive your points home, I think you should definitely be more condescending.

Dark Dreky July 3 2008 1:12 PM EDT

No to all retrains. Even if there is a new skill or DD. TAKE THE EXP PENALTY! Take it like a man! It isn't even that bad.

Free retrains allow everyone to "run wild" with their strats. It just gets out of hand and makes it hard for me to take the game seriously.

Please, please, please... no more free retrains. No matter how big the Changemonth.

Dark Dreky July 3 2008 1:24 PM EDT

Why take away the "risk" of retraining? A little due diligence and anyone with half a brain and figure out a good strategy.

Honestly, I'm not sure what this supposed "risk" is (and I haven't read more than 3 lines from ANY of the previous posts), but if by risk you mean the chance that someones whacky idea for a strat doesn't work out to their liking... then thats the risk you HAVE to be willing to take. The XP penalty on retraining just ups the ante.

To summarize:

Be smart with your strategies. Have a game plan. Don't cry about retraining.

Lord Bob July 3 2008 2:07 PM EDT

I agree with Godwolf on all counts.

Wizard'sFirstRule July 3 2008 9:01 PM EDT

but we have a new DD spell. it fires front to back in melee. its damage is slightly less than CoC, but concentrated, and does extra damage in some situation.

Does it fit your strategy? are you going to avoid it like the plague or take a 8% (retrain and back) hit every time something looks good and sink lower and lower?
What if there is a bug and SG does no damage to anyone with AC? how is anyone going to catch it if no one use it? or it does 100x the intended damage?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] July 3 2008 9:21 PM EDT

Off the cuff I don't like free retrain or 100% disenchant for a week, but I agree with Ranger and Yukk that its hardly fair to let Mages change there strat for a week with 100% efficiency and not let Tanks change there weapons.
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