MsK vs ELB (in General)

Warbringer July 9 2008 10:07 PM EDT

Which would be better for a single minion archer character.

Mageseeker Pros:
-always hits mages

Elven Longbow Pros:

iBananco [Blue Army] July 9 2008 10:21 PM EDT

It depends. For my character, a mageseeker is a lot better, since I have large DBs. If you're going for a quick kill against tanks, ELB is the way to go.

QBRanger July 9 2008 10:35 PM EDT

-always hits mages

So very wrong.

Does not "always" hit, but seeks them out first.

Evasion is not your friend.

Warbringer July 9 2008 10:38 PM EDT

I meant always as in it always hits them first.

Warbringer July 9 2008 10:39 PM EDT

Also, how much is the difference in damage between them?

iBananco [Blue Army] July 9 2008 10:42 PM EDT

Pretty big. MSB damage is around 60-70% of ELB damage.

Sickone July 9 2008 11:07 PM EDT

Occam's Razor
Largest Blow 3,139,201
4,980,784 ST
Platypus Phleghm [6x10001] (+108) (rental, named ELB)

Sox Jr
Largest Blow 1,830,524
5,844,546 ST
Spiral [5x4000] (+220) (named MSB)

Assuming Sox Jr has the same "size" of Beleg's Gloves (+12) we get SQRT(ST * bow X) for base damage multiplier:
224855 for the ELB
155739 for the MSB
= +44% damage for ELB compared to the mage seeker (or if you prefer MSB at around 69% of ELB damage).

Of course, some randomness might also be involved, or Sox might be using +13 BGs, in which case the MSB could be even weaker.

Soxjr July 10 2008 4:18 AM EDT

Well. Just so you know the belegs I use are +13. So it means the Mageseeker might be worse than you posted, but biggest blow before the arrow thing was changed could have been gotten from upgraded ammo. Bigger x on the ammo would cause a bigger shot.

iBananco [Blue Army] July 10 2008 4:23 AM EDT

Easiest way to test would be to compare Sox's MSB and my ELB.

Sickone July 10 2008 4:36 AM EDT

I only started using the ELB after the ammo removal change - I was a SFBM before that.
So any extra damage from upgraded ammo can only mean less damage (comparatively) for the MSB.

Sickone July 10 2008 4:40 AM EDT

Largest Blow 1,867,066
named ELB, x4000
Strength: 2,970,000

Going by that one would expect the ELB to be only about 30% more damaging or therebouts, not 44-46% more - but what + do you have on your BGs ?

iBananco [Blue Army] July 10 2008 5:26 AM EDT

I meant for one character to actually run tests with the two bows. They're +14.

Warbringer July 10 2008 1:46 PM EDT

I was just thinking that it would be extremely expensive to have to upgrade through the blacksmith. I'm guessing that the larger ELBs were forged before the update.

QBOddBird July 10 2008 2:07 PM EDT

Nope, most of the big weapons were BS'd because the owners didn't want to wait for 3 weeks until they could use their weapon again.

QBRanger July 10 2008 2:14 PM EDT

In general, most very high NW items were BSd due to the long time forgers needed.

There were exceptions like NUB forgers, but that "abuse" was fixed.

Warbringer July 10 2008 2:14 PM EDT

I'm leaning towards the MsK, does anyone think I should go with the ELB?

Soxjr July 10 2008 2:20 PM EDT

Use whichever one you like the most. Each has it's own purpose. The Mageseeker is used to try to get rid of pesky mages first and then kill the other members of the team later before the end of battle. The elb is about killing in order and killing hard and fast.

One bit of advice whichever way you go. The + on the bow is the most important thing. I have only 4k in x's and over 200 +'s and I still think I need more. lol. Get used to missing occasionally and sometimes the whole fight. lol until you get well over +200 ... Have fun whichever way you go :)

Sickone July 10 2008 8:20 PM EDT

See, I went the exact opposite way (my "non-rental" is at exactly +0 right now) - why bother getting so much more NW into plus when the ToA already grants a pretty hefty NW into the plus already (over +100 with just the ToA fake NW plus) ?
Instead, I'm focus on hitting hard whenever I manage to hit - throw as much into the x as possible, and try to fight NON-EVASION opponents only - it's a losing battle even trying against heavy evasion users.
I mean, dealing anywhere from 4 mil to 9 mil raw damage (before damage reduction layers and assuming they have no evasion trained) per ranged round to enemy minions is nothing to scowl about...

Soxjr July 10 2008 8:33 PM EDT

Yep, that is a way you could go, but I want to beat the top list of people, and that won't be possible with a weapon with no plus on it.

Warbringer July 10 2008 11:26 PM EDT

Can someone explain the accuracy of the 2 bows?

Warbringer July 11 2008 12:14 AM EDT


Soxjr July 11 2008 12:33 AM EDT

accuracy. ?? I'm confused about the question. The accuracy is if the + is high enough versus your opponant you will hit if not .. then you don't. :p

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] July 11 2008 12:35 AM EDT

the accuracy of the two weapons is more or less the same. As the upgrade curve on the plus for MsK is cheaper but it only gets a .9 effect for archery.
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