Exbow/Axbow Drain (in General)


DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 6 2008 11:07 PM EDT

Can we now get axbow and exbow drain changed now... I really don't want to have to switch all evasion for EC just to stop from being drained when physical damage has been changed so much...

With all the reductions every bit of strength is important as the last...

three4thsforsaken September 6 2008 11:12 PM EDT

I second that.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 6 2008 11:50 PM EDT

drop the drain to 4/9ths of what it was per hit... that won't solve the problem but it'll make a bit more expensive to get them to a stupid level...

lostling September 7 2008 1:26 AM EDT

im pretty sure str still affects damage the same way it was before the change lol

Cube September 7 2008 2:29 AM EDT

The problem is the % drain, once you get a high enough X on the weapon all you have to do is hit for one damage.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 7 2008 9:56 PM EDT

I still think that Exbow/axbow drain needs to be reworked.... its just not right that one team can use Exbow to completely nullify tanks Str and that you can't stop all hits from an Exbow even using DBs... Anyone else want to comment on this? Maybe fix it so that Ex/Ax bows can't completely nullify str... but reduces it by say 1/20th per hit or some such.... so that the X is for damage only and the + is for the pth... instead of having the Str/X tied together to equal drain....

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 7 2008 10:00 PM EDT

make the drain based on damage DONE!

Kefeck [BlackSmith] September 7 2008 10:09 PM EDT

uhmmm no.. I use axbows I think there fine lol.

Wizard'sFirstRule September 7 2008 10:15 PM EDT

change the % reduction to an exponential curve.

Little Anthony September 7 2008 10:15 PM EDT

if i were to drain someone's ST for 35k per hit. I would dump that Exbow in a heart beat.

three4thsforsaken September 7 2008 10:29 PM EDT

yeah, we shouldn't change exbows because some people might not be able to use it so easily, right?

Colonel Custard September 7 2008 11:31 PM EDT

What would prevent people from using it so easily?

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 7 2008 11:34 PM EDT

if it didn't completely drain str and/or dex the way it does now... for when/if you have over 4k X on it... if it only drained it by 1/20th or so per hit or base it on damage done instead it would make Exbows less of the fight changer they are now...

Sickone September 7 2008 11:51 PM EDT

Make it...

drain [%] = constant * ( damage dealt / minion post-AS HP )

...where "constant" can be whatever you want it to be, from 1.00 upwards, but 2.00 would already be overkill.
Making it 1.00 would mean stats only get reduced to zero when minion is killed (unless he's wearing a TSA, in which case he could actually reach negative stats before he dies), setting it to 2.0 would mean his stats get reduced to basically nothing when half the initial XP is gone.

If needed, you may adjust the speciality crossbow damages upwards a little bit.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 8 2008 12:01 AM EDT

I think basing drain on damage done per hit would be a little more accurate.... and a little less overpowered....

three4thsforsaken September 8 2008 12:03 AM EDT

no one gets my sarcasm...

Mikel September 8 2008 12:04 AM EDT

Ah I so miss the many challenges of playing a tank and things that you have to look out for. *sarcasm tag*

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 8 2008 12:14 AM EDT

Even using my 141 DB to reduce FTW's hits to one a round he still hits my tank 5 times.... one is pl'ed away so 4 times and drains my tank from 2.95 mil str down to 122k in 4 hits!!!! what is wrong with this picture? Now that Exbow will just about hit every round why is it still so damn powerful?

Cube September 8 2008 3:42 AM EDT

Have fun if he gets it to x3333. 100% drain no matter what.

Obscurans September 8 2008 5:03 AM EDT

Here's an easy thing to do: make all the x drains independent.

So if an x drains 1/33%, the next x drains 1/33%... off the new total

Getting hit by a *xbow drops your stat to (1-1/33%)^x * current.

Exponential decay, which would work even better considering CTH is a DX ratio, so an Axbow adds somewhat constant CTH per drain.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] September 8 2008 11:57 AM EDT

Obscurans, I think it does work like that., each drain is independent and based on the dx at the time of the shot. Have patience Draco it has only been broken for 2 years :P

Cube September 8 2008 12:29 PM EDT

It does? Well it's still pretty harsh.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 8 2008 12:31 PM EDT

I think basing it on damage done (multiply the damage done by ten?) would make them much more reasonable items...

percentage based drain will always be a problem

Cube September 8 2008 5:07 PM EDT

^There's probably some multiplier that would work perfectly to base it off of damage done. Good solution.

Obscurans September 8 2008 6:17 PM EDT

I meant each x in one single shot works independently as well. As it stands, one hit modifies stat to (1-x/33%) * current, which can well zero you out if x > 3300 (and some have done it).

With the (1-1/33%)^x * current formula, a single *xbow x3300 hit would drop you to 36.8% original stat, not a straight 0 (and don't forget constant drain).

Zaekyr September 9 2008 9:41 PM EDT

With the capability of 60% BTH so that now they will hit in ranged at least once I think the drain really should be based on damage.Remember it used to be you could avoid getting hit.

I think having it be 2x or 3x the damage done would be fine.Since any other solution based on weapon x and/or str creates a position where someone could just up the x for the one hit they get in ranged to guarantee a very high stat reduction.

I hope the BTH of ELB and MgsK get adjusted in the meantime.100%/99% BTH means 100%/99% CTH now

iBananco [Blue Army] September 9 2008 9:43 PM EDT

Base to hit doesn't mean guaranteed CTH. It's used to calculate CTH. If you have little to no dex, you won't be getting much in the way of CTH even if you're using an ELB.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 10 2008 3:34 AM EDT

Who has little to no Dex and uses an ELB (or one of the special X Bows...)?

If you're trying to equal a Tanks Dex, they'll get that 100% (or 55/56% for the X Bows) every ranged round.

Unless you use an AoI.

But yeah, sticking one on a 20 Dex Enchanter (assuming no EC is in play anyway) isn't going to work as well.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 17 2008 9:01 PM EDT

I sure hope there is still a change coming to these...

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 30 2008 9:32 PM EDT

Bump for extended changemonth

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 30 2008 9:34 PM EDT

Make them unable to do physical damage, and make the effect based on previous damage formulas... end the days of the one hit wonders!

Warbringer September 30 2008 9:37 PM EDT

I think that drain based on damage would be the best option, maybe not 1 damage=1 STR drained though.

Sickone September 30 2008 11:06 PM EDT

"Base to hit doesn't mean guaranteed CTH. It's used to calculate CTH. If you have little to no dex, you won't be getting much in the way of CTH even if you're using an ELB. "

Actually, I argue that if you're using a +100 ELB with 1.0 archery and you have 20 DX, you still hit once per round even huge DX, huge evasion targets.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 30 2008 11:33 PM EDT

it's been proved otherwise... dex can reduce base chance to hit

Sickone September 30 2008 11:43 PM EDT

Actually, I was the one that said that in the first place, if you recall :)
But also, I was the one I said (in the very same thread) that I have a bad feeling in case weapon plus is involved, the calculation order breaks down and you see the above result.
Let me see if I can dig up the thread, it's not even a week old if I remember right.

Sickone September 30 2008 11:46 PM EDT

Yup, see the "eight scenarios" post in there... in particular, scenario 7 and 8.
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