Rave's St00per 00ber strat talk (of doom) (in General)

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 23 2008 8:32 PM EDT

OK, so I have two VA/BL strats that both include a ToA. If I take way too much damage in ranged and I have trouble surviving until melee, I'll just switch out the ToA for my TSA/EC.

First strat:
Single minion tank that trains HP, DEX, STR, BL, and VA. VA will be trained to twice the MPB.
Equips a MH, Exbow (or axbow if evasion is too much of a problem), HoE, ToA, tulkas, AoM, EBs, and a SoC.

So this strategy is pretty much an ultimate tank killer, and will take mass amounts of damage from any sort of magic. However, it will allow me to deal insane amounts of damage once I reach melee, and absorb so much HP that I'll be invincible. The SoC will absorb physical damage and deal it back triple. w00h! I'll absorb 60% HP, and because I'll be dealing so much damage I have a good chance to overload any GA that I come across. Worst case scenario for GA is it will completely negate my life leeching.
The only trouble that I can see with this strat is hardcore archers or halidon familiars, however the Exbow should take care of them. The only other problem, however it is a rather large problem, is mages. I have no protection versus mages except what little AC I can get off of my equipment.

The second strategy is a two minion strat. Now I'm not a fan of more than one minion, however even I can see the limitations of a single minion BL/VA strat. Anywho, it'll look a little something like this:

Second strat:
Dual minion - First minion trains VA to twice the MPB, the rest is dumped into AMF.
First minion equips whatever lame enchantment boosting gear is out there.
Second minion trains HP, STR, DEX, and BL.
Second minion equips MH, HoE, ToA, tulkas, EBs, AoM, and either a SoC or MgS, depending on what types of characters I need more defense against.

This strategy is more of an all 'rounder. I'll be dealing much less damage compared to the first strategy because I'll have an exp leecher (*grumble*), but I will have an effective defense against mages.
If I take too much damage using a ToA, I'll switch it out for my TSA + EC, and turn my ToA into either a RoS and slap it on my enchanter, or use my enchanter as a host for a MM, FB or CoC familiar.
For FB or MM, the familiar will be spawned between my enchanter and tank. For CoC, I will move my tank forward and have it spawned between my enchanter and tank.

Please give me feedback on how you think either of these strategies will work, and which would be more successful. Spank y'all for your help. =)

Colonel Custard September 23 2008 8:44 PM EDT

You messed up on the title...

th00p September 23 2008 10:36 PM EDT

See my name as the proper way. St00per is stupor, like a drunken stupor. th00per is super.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 23 2008 10:57 PM EDT

st00per = super. Also, thanks for the great input regarding the strategies I put forth. xD

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 24 2008 3:13 AM EDT

Nobody has any opinions on my strategy? Come on guys!

Flatcap [East Milwaukee Devival] September 24 2008 4:08 AM EDT

Well You'll be up against all 5 tanks left in the game. Strat 1 is how I started out this NCB. The only difference was that I had a PL wall in addition. And here was the result: You can barely make it to Melee rounds. Even with a PL wall. You really don't have many choices for fights against physical damage, so you end up fighting archers and Hals, wich frankly isn't much fun since they are made entirely for killing you in ranged. And no you wont overpower GA, It's just really not possible under the new damage rules with a melee character.

It really all comes down to absorbing damage. It's really really hard to get much ac on a TOA tank so you end up taking far more damage than a heavy tank. Sure you have a boatload of strength and a decent amount of dex so once you hit melee you can really nail em but it's getting there that sucks. You'll be able to nail Hals and most archers just as long as you can survive long enough to get that first big hit in.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 24 2008 4:31 AM EDT

Well with all the damage changes, it's much easier to get to melee than before. The only reason I've even considered a melee ToA tank is because Jon lowered all damage by 1/3 (or so) and all physical damage by 4/9 (or so).
But I do plan on investing heavily in HP just to last until melee. I won't overdue it to compromise damage or anything.
If I absolutely cannot last until melee with a single ToA tank, I will switch it to TSA + EC, that way I'll have 3% HP regen on top of my massive HP, as well as much more armor.

P.S. Thanks flatcap for being the first to give me some feedback! =)

Flatcap [East Milwaukee Devival] September 24 2008 4:58 AM EDT

Yeah man You'll need around 3.75 mil hp to last to melee against a decent Hal at 1m mpr. triple hits for around 255k each. Add in an extra round if you want to use a ranged weapon. But the triple hits only last in ranged, once it hits melee you're good.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 24 2008 6:01 AM EDT

I think I might have forgotten to mention that I will use an Exbow in both strategies. So the first is definitely anti tank to the max.

QBJohnnywas September 24 2008 6:45 AM EDT

I've run many a single tank over the years: mage teams will be the bane of your existence. Much smaller single mages will toast you. However, you may think I'm saying "train AMF train AMF" - I'm not. AMF needs to be pretty damn large to be effective on a single minion, and even then it isn't great. HP is a much better bet, but so too is boosting ST/Dex to improve your damage output.

I'd drop the VA if I went single minion with a Morg, you get more than enough HP regen from the Morg and it's not vulnerable to DM. Infact I'd be tempted to not use enchantments at all and maximise the physical stats. I've done that before and it works a treat. After all you're creating a much tougher, stronger and faster tank. He's got a magic weapon, what more does he need? You could always then use a mage shield.....

I'd also be tempted to drop the exbow and use a mageseeker. Doesn't need to be huge, and with the ToA you don't need to train archery. You won't get massive multiple hits, from my own experience you'll hit doubles more than likely, but it's for more damage and it'll target mages, giving you more of a chance against them.

And single minion - ToA vs TSA...ToA every time.
Second strat: I hate two minion teams but it looks...ok...lol

QBJohnnywas September 24 2008 6:49 AM EDT

Actually scrap the bow idea, just give him a SoD; if your guy is big enough in HP/ST/Dex he's already set to take on most tanks; in which case maximise your mage beating abilities. A SoD lets you dish out some good damage in ranged, and can cut down multi minion teams a treat.

Flatcap [East Milwaukee Devival] September 24 2008 7:11 AM EDT

I wouldn't swing with the SoD, unless it's gigantic the backlash is going to be the maximum. I was using a x400 named sod until the damage changes and then bam it was like holding a grenade with the pin out.

QBJohnnywas September 24 2008 7:25 AM EDT

Actually that's true. GA is a problem. Of course the option for the single tank in this situation is to use DM; cutting through AS and GA works just as well for a melee based guy in my opinion.

Flatcap [East Milwaukee Devival] September 24 2008 7:38 AM EDT

Good point, it will all end up being a tradeoff one way or another.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 24 2008 7:47 AM EDT

What about simply overloading the GA with mass damage?
Also, full VA + MH can completely negate the effects of GA.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 24 2008 7:49 AM EDT

Heh, also what if I just trained VA to my MPB and not higher? It wouldn't cost too much exp (I think), and I'd get full benefits verses non DM teams.

QBJohnnywas September 24 2008 7:54 AM EDT

Unless the opposition is training a pretty small GA you're never going to overload it with damage. And if their GA is big you're going to get hit for quite a bit of return. With regards to VA, the flat amount you get from the MH is more than enough to give you decent regen. Additionally, those pesky single FB mages that are definitely going to give you problems - how many of those train DM?

Personally I would concentrate your XP into making him a strong tank. Exbow, axbow and EC can reduce your physical stats sure, but nothing else can. That's a far more useful XP spend in my opinion. Remember VA is only as good as the damage you're doing. Concentrate on that and you can always add the VA to the Morg's leech later on.

Flatcap [East Milwaukee Devival] September 24 2008 9:51 AM EDT

"Also, full VA + MH can completely negate the effects of GA. "

Actually it can't. Max GA would be 60% Max drain is in theory 60% but in all reality you get alot lower. That and it's hard to keep up with VA on a tank if you want a massive hitpoint count.

And as Johnny said you really can't outdamage GA. I rarely hit for over 250k wich is really not all that much GA to train for max effect.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 24 2008 12:35 PM EDT

Hmm... Flatcap, how big is your MH just out of curiosity?

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 25 2008 12:30 AM EDT

Any more ideas on the success or failure of these suggested strategies?

three4thsforsaken September 25 2008 2:47 AM EDT

I wouldn't rely on an exbow ><, they're a big investment that is screaming for a nerf.

You are going to have tons of issues with SFBM, because of the centralized damage, plus multi minion teams will get a good 3-9 hits on you minimum before you can probably knock out the damage dealers.

I don't think MH will cut it in damage. I hear that the Vampiric effect of MH although valuable decreases the damage. That is why if you want to overwhelm and ideally kill on minion per round use a BoNE. I wish I had more data but I believe if you can VA that you'll still be getting more hp anyway since you'll be hitting much much harder (theortically).

I would opt for the 1st option. Since your team really is about overpowering, single minion is the only way to do it. And since damage is nerfed, and you'll not going to be triple hitted by much, you're chances of making it to a few rounds of melee are higher than ever (but still slim). Train LOTS of HP. Take advantage of the ToA boost and blast your hp skyhigh, then put your strength and X to a level that you can oneshot decent stuff.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 25 2008 8:12 AM EDT

Yeah, I doubt I'll have any SFBMs on my fightlist... I was leaning more towards the first option as it was. And you bring up a good point with the MH/BoNE choice. If I could get my hands on some damage comparisons, that would certainly make my day.

Conquest September 25 2008 8:14 AM EDT

Have you considered the option of using a MoD? With the popularity of PL and AS it seems like the best choice. Of course you can always try and three and see what works best!

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 25 2008 8:19 AM EDT

Yeah I've considered it. Just imagine the massive damage I'd deal to an AS based team along with BL, a ToA, and the SoC... *drools*

However it does mean less damage to non AS based teams, and I lose out on 20% life absorbing ability. Also, I'm not really rich... It would be hard to find decent sized weapons that are all close to the same X modifrier (yes, I realize I put an R in that word. It looks and sounds better that way.), and that could get expensive if nobody is renting them out...

Flatcap [East Milwaukee Devival] September 25 2008 9:28 AM EDT

Mr morgs 1500 +50 You can check it out on the named weapons page :P

PearsonTritonRaveshaw September 25 2008 9:31 AM EDT

You deal more damage than my An Elven Long Bow [6x1196] (+85). I also have slightly more strength than your tank...

My average damage that I usually see is about 210k.

Flatcap [East Milwaukee Devival] September 25 2008 9:46 AM EDT

mm I'm only hitting for 150s unless I'm throwing out return damage. And your familiar kills me before I can actually do that most of the time. the initial hit is the bloodlust hit and if theres some damage in the shield it throws that in, it's the only way I manage to break a mil on a hit these days
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