Another N*B QQer (in General)


3D September 28 2008 11:26 PM EDT

"While having your New User Bonus (NUB), BA is free to buy until it expires. With a New Character Bonus (NCB) the cost of BA is extremely high."

NUB users already get the 300 something % bonus to exp AND money, why do they get free BA buying as well? Sure, help the noobies, but not THIS much. Just seems too much to me, who is very poor ._.

QBOddBird September 28 2008 11:27 PM EDT

The cost of the BA that is bought has been deducted from their former NUB monetary rewards.

They used to make a lot more - now their BA is paid for every day, so it is their choice whether or not they take advantage of that pre-spent cash.

3D September 28 2008 11:29 PM EDT

O, that makes me feel better on the inside, thanks OB.

{cb2}Dinh September 28 2008 11:36 PM EDT

The cost of NCB BA is way too much...Give NCB characters a small % bonus to money or lessen the price, then shorten the length of the NCB as a whole to even it out...
I missed the last 3-4 months of my NUB and made an NCB character not knowing about the hike in BA price...now I'm stuck, screwed...and POOR!!

3D September 28 2008 11:40 PM EDT

I think that NCB is fine as it is. To the veteran players, if they get a $ increase with the NCB, thats just more $$ than they'll be getting with their top characters, so nobody will stay and everyone will be running NCB's. If that is a bad thing, anyways.

QBOddBird September 28 2008 11:43 PM EDT

I dunno if that's a bad thing by Jon's way of thinking...the game seems pretty geared towards "Make NCB, run it, drop it, make another, continue as needed."

Sickone September 29 2008 12:56 PM EDT

Actually, I have two alternatives for NCB purchaseable BA :

* either have them cost zero, just like the BA from the NUB (NCB gets absolutely no cash bonus at all anyway) - in which case CREATING a NUB should be a costly matter (have a fixed large fee for creating it, cheaper than all the corresponding BA cost, but high enough to be noticeable and hurt the wallet)

* or have them cost exactly as much as they would normally cost (if you had no NCB) - there is absolutely no monetary rationalisation why the BA should cost more. Yes, you get more XP, but you DON'T get more CB$ when fighting. And you might get more XP, but you restarted from scratch.

So, either way, having NCB BA cost MORE than normal BA makes no sense. Either have normal cost or no cost (but with a initial cost).

Solare September 29 2008 1:26 PM EDT

I think the reason NCB's cost so much is because they have an advantage over NUB's starting off. That is, if a veteran player creates a NCB they'll likely already have a good tattoo, upgraded equipment, and a set strategy in mind. NCB's are probably expensive to compromise for this fact. It would be silly to give NCB's the same advantages as NUB's. However, the price may be a bit too much for the NCB's BA (or so says everyone), I can't really say for sure.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 29 2008 1:31 PM EDT

It's a two fold disadvantage.

1: No Free BA.

2: Increased BA cost.

If we really need the restart Tax, and I don't think we do, then tax us once. Not twice.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] September 29 2008 1:34 PM EDT

I have close to 400 mpr and my BA costs 2,550 just thought i'd throw that out there.. kind of ridiculous.

Kefeck [BlackSmith] September 29 2008 1:35 PM EDT

make that 400k mpr...

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- September 29 2008 1:47 PM EDT

It's stupid to make BA cost more, I noticed my first day coming back to CB...

It costs me 2,444 CBD per BA... Are you kidding me? I make ~400 CBD per fight... It's completely asinine to expect ANYONE to pay so much.

Little Anthony September 29 2008 2:01 PM EDT

it has been $1367 / BA for me for a long time now :P
i think it stopped increase!

Sickone September 29 2008 2:06 PM EDT

You ran a NUB, not a NCB.
ALL your additional BA cost exactly zero, and you were getting at least DOUBLE CB$ rewards per fight.

For a NCB of roughly the same size as you now, the BA would cost around 5000 CB$ per piece, and the CB$ rewards per fight would be the same as yours now.

three4thsforsaken September 29 2008 3:45 PM EDT

NCB > NUB

this is why:

1. NCB can start with 1600 BA
2. NCB can prepare strat prior to creation, that means one can have all equips needed prior to starting. It is very costly and difficult to run through an NUB without any equips, they are forced to buy items as fast as they can, often at inflated prices.
3. NCB can have a tattoo to fall back on which means more RoE. I don't know about you guys but brute forcing MPR without a decent tat isn't exactly the best idea unless you can reach top 10 MPR.
4. Not buying all of ones BA doesn't mean one can't be competitive.
5. NUBs naturally have a "stupidity" penalty and unless are guided by vets completely will definitely find themselves with a subpar strat and growth plan.

note that many of these problems can be solved by HEAVY USD spending. But I don't think that' what we are agruing about.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 29 2008 4:08 PM EDT

Just a couple of points. ;)

2. NCB can prepare strat prior to creation, that means one can have all equips needed prior to starting. It is very costly and difficult to run through an NUB without any equips, they are forced to buy items as fast as they can, often at inflated prices.

Which is limited by NW-PR links, Enc, and the fact things like Kats go for a steal.

3. NCB can have a tattoo to fall back on which means more RoE. I don't know about you guys but brute forcing MPR without a decent tat isn't exactly the best idea unless you can reach top 10 MPR.

Tat's go for a steal, and level up at your accelerated NUB rate. Plus for Vet's it's limited by MTL.

And the RoE shouldn't exist. ;)

4. Not buying all of ones BA doesn't mean one can't be competitive.

Unless the Top spot doesn't buy as much BA per day as you, it does. As the Bonus is designed to get you to 95% with equivalent effort. Don't put the efort in, like buying as much BA, and you don't compete.

5. NUBs naturally have a "stupidity" penalty and unless are guided by vets completely will definitely find themselves with a subpar strat and growth plan.

We've had new players study the forums/wiki before starting, and we'ev had new players coached by people they know.

So there's already two teirs of new players with the bonus.

three4thsforsaken September 29 2008 4:17 PM EDT

well my point in equipment that even with enc problems it's still much trouble to get your hands on right away. Sure it's doable but you need to save money for many things, like supportership.

Many NUBs get set back a little bit to a few weeks because they don't understand the importance of supportership. Anyways, NCB almost always have a better start.

I think it's an important point to say that not all NUBs do incredibly well. A few are able to maximize their advantages and reach top spots with their USD usage, but reamping the system and lowering the benefits just because of a few players isn't fair for the large amount of NUBs that simply fall out short.

lostling September 29 2008 4:30 PM EDT

although i still maintain that NUB money bonus is like about 20% too much i do agree that 3/4 has good and valid points

Wizard'sFirstRule September 29 2008 5:14 PM EDT

I think I made this point before, but INCREASE the NUB bonus by a little, and cap their MPR growth, you hit this spot, you stop growing as fast, like maybe as soon as they hit 6/20, their bonus get halved.

Sickone September 29 2008 5:52 PM EDT

Obviously the only reasonable solution is to eliminate XP bonus from N*Bs altogether and have a permanent rolling XP bonus instead.
Then only keep the NUB cash bonus, since everything else doesn't matter.

For all intents and purposes, everybody's char would be a sort of NCB all the time (after NUB is over).

Sickone September 29 2008 5:56 PM EDT

It all comes down to these three problems :

* older chars without N*B have no chance whatsoever to get better, especially when the top MPR character uses a RoE, fights constantly and also buys most daily BA

* NCBs are unfairly easy, due to the completely free daily BA and the cash bonus (however small or large it might be)

* NUBs are unfairly costly, due to the insane BA cost


Bottom line is that SOMETHING is wrong, even if the solution isn't obvious at first sight.

Sickone September 29 2008 6:06 PM EDT

Also, I can only go "ha" at the 1600 initial BA thing.

First off, NUBs start with 300 free BA, so that's only 1300 BA max initial advantage, for which you HAVE to pay, and they must be earned while NOT fighting at all.

Second, during the course of the N*B, you can purchase well over 30k BA even if you're using a RoE and fighting at 100%CB all the time, which are completely free for the NUB, but would cost on average at least 90 mil, if not 100 mil for a NCB.


Now add to that the cash bonuses while running a NUB, and you have a hugely different look on things... while a NUB can leave you on top of 100 mil CB$ worth of cash and/or gear, a NCB will *COST* you at least 50 mil CB$ worth of cash overall, the very least.
I wouldn't call a 150+ mil CB$ difference (in favor of a NUB) in half a year any advantage for a NCB.

I know I DON'T have anywhere near the needed cash to even properly START a new NCB, let alone make it overpowered in gear and/or anything else. And for that matter, almost nobody else does.
NUBs have it way too easy, NCBs have it way too hard, *IF* your goal is getting near the top MPR.

Sickone September 29 2008 6:11 PM EDT

And last but not least, let's be honest... how many TRUE newbies have run a succesfull NUB ?
AFAIK, most of the people that did were people who benefited from the "non-supporter inactivity wipe" that is now impossible.

So, let me ask you a question.
HOW MANY of you would happily abandon their current caracter and ALL its belongings (without cashing out at all) just so you could legitimately get a NUB ?
I know I would. My entire belongings aren't even remotely worth 100 mil CB$, the "hidden bonus" a NUB gets, and I could easily re-acquire about anything I might need just from the NUB cash earnings.

three4thsforsaken September 29 2008 6:44 PM EDT

"Obviously the only reasonable solution is to eliminate XP bonus from N*Bs altogether and have a permanent rolling XP bonus instead.
Then only keep the NUB cash bonus, since everything else doesn't matter.

For all intents and purposes, everybody's char would be a sort of NCB all the time (after NUB is over). "

Perhaps, I do like the concept behind the rolling bonus. But the only problem I seem to have about it is that it creates an place in which the majority of players will be centralized around top MPR. Which is cool, but then again almost boring? If such a system is implemented I think the games goals should be reworked. (perhaps benefits to having top score, or another dimension to clan warfare)

"* older chars without N*B have no chance whatsoever to get better, especially when the top MPR character uses a RoE, fights constantly and also buys most daily BA"

True, the alternative would be that all older characters would get near top MPR. Do we want that?

"* NCBs are unfairly easy, due to the completely free daily BA and the cash bonus (however small or large it might be)"

I assume you mean NUBs. Personally during my NCB I spent 4 weeks of fighting trying to buy my exbow. Base equips prices have gone down in recent months, but I truly believe NUBs need the cash bonus. Otherwise they would have to wait much longer to get just base equips, let alone upgrade them. I believe many new players would quit the game when they realize that it'll take them 2 weeks to get the basic weapon they want. I mean 3-4 days of fighting does still seem like alot of time for a new player. Also worth noting is that cash rewards are reduced as the NUBs move on. So the biggest bonuses are cut as time goes on.

* NUBs are unfairly costly, due to the insane BA cost

Unfairly costly? I love the idea that it is completely impractical for NCBs to buy ALL their BA of the course of now 6 months (which does take off alot of stress off the cost anyway). That way, not everyone buys all their BA. One person has a slight advantage over the next guy, but it's a minor advantage for a HUGE cost, not really the most cost efficent thing ever. If all the NCBs could easily buy all their BA and thus all have the same number of battles challenged. Again, we run into problems in which everyone is at the same place. USD spenders will suddenly dump all their money into equipment.

"Also, I can only go "ha" at the 1600 initial BA thing. "

I dunno, a properly run NCB with 1600 BA can get past 100k MPR on the first day on xp time if you are smart enough and plan ahead. I doubt a NUB can get past 30k. Plus they'll waste more and more time getting past the dead characters and struggling to get supporterships and their first equips. On the low end this gives NCBs a week more bonus than NUBs. On the high end, several weeks. Unless of course they know that they are doing :P. Anyway not too shabby.

"Now add to that the cash bonuses while running a NUB, and you have a hugely different look on things... while a NUB can leave you on top of 100 mil CB$ worth of cash and/or gear, a NCB will *COST* you at least 50 mil CB$ worth of cash overall, the very least.
I wouldn't call a 150+ mil CB$ difference (in favor of a NUB) in half a year any advantage for a NCB.

I know I DON'T have anywhere near the needed cash to even properly START a new NCB, let alone make it overpowered in gear and/or anything else. And for that matter, almost nobody else does.
NUBs have it way too easy, NCBs have it way too hard, *IF* your goal is getting near the top MPR."

100 mil? I was a NUB forger of the worst kind and I got around 100 mil. And that was 100 mil NW not cash. I don't see too many non USD NUBs with 100mil worth of equipment. Maybe one and a blue moon. I don't believe the majority really capitalize the NUB to it's greatest extent. In fact most I see play for roughly 2 months then stop for a few months then complain that they don't have enough money *cough*

'And last but not least, let's be honest... how many TRUE newbies have run a succesfull NUB ?
AFAIK, most of the people that did were people who benefited from the "non-supporter inactivity wipe" that is now impossible. '

My point exactly. not many true newbs benefit greatly from NUB. And those are the people we are catering for.




3D September 29 2008 7:56 PM EDT

Personally I think the NUB bonus is fine as it is. No need to fix something that isn't broken imo. As mentioned before, most NUB's don't know what they're doing and how to be as fast and efficient to get to the top right away. I think having the NCB itself is already nice of Jon to add. Before NCB's, if you didn't start on January 1, 2005, (or near that time) you're probably not going to be in the top!

BadFish September 29 2008 7:57 PM EDT

3D, didn't you CREATE this thread complaining about the NUB bonus?

3D September 29 2008 7:58 PM EDT

Yes, however it was because I misinterpreted the Wiki.

Sickone September 29 2008 10:17 PM EDT

Ok, let's say I could live with the "NUB is fine as it is" argument even in spite of the fact the top MPR character right now is a former NUB.

But somehow, I doubt the whole "NCB really should cost around 90 mil CB$ with all BA purchased" is a fair thing in comparison.
Like I said earlier, either leave the BA purchase cost alone (identical to a non-NCB), or have a one-time lump sum at the START of a NCB (of, say 20 to 40 mil CB$, whatever) and have all BA costs be zero during the entire period, like a NUB's.

superior me September 29 2008 11:11 PM EDT

"It's a two fold disadvantage.

1: No Free BA.

2: Increased BA cost.

If we really need the restart Tax, and I don't think we do, then tax us once. Not twice."

vets are being taxed once NUB's get a rebate :)
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