Some change suggestions for Changemonth Extension (in General)


Solare September 30 2008 11:36 AM EDT

Personally, these are the changes I'd like to see happen:

1)CoC needs some kind of bonus over SG:
I'm thinking maybe give a 10% damage bonus to center minions; that is, the minions in the center of the team (and if there are no center minions [1-2 minions], then no bonus damage).
While it does do a nice amount of damage, SG is far more useful for the long wait in its use. This suggestion would make it more viable, and worth having perhaps, over SG.

2)Magic missle could use 30% AC penetration:
It's far too easily walled by high AC minions with a mage shield/TSA. As it is, it's the weakest DD; it may as well have a way of making it more usable on it's own.

3)Fireball needs to stop roasting fellow minions:
While many may say this is the drawback to FB, consider that it is the second weakest DD; and while its greatest strength is that it can be fired in ranged, it's damage is effectively reduced by over 50% each round (except the last with a HoC). It is also outdamaged by CoC and SG by the first/second round of melee (if they're wearing a HoC as well). It already has drawbacks; why should it cause death to its allies?

4)Maybe cut ELB's base CTH to 95-90%?:
It already is the strongest bow, isn't 100% accuracy all the time (minus an AoI) a bit much?

5)TSA; Is it possible to stop it from reviving minions infinitely?:
It may be a random bug, but in some cases, an opponent that I defeat easily in 6 rounds has a minion that will revive itself (despite recieving overwhelming damage) 3-4 extra rounds, either causing me to draw (due to AMF backlash) or lose (if the minion decides not to die). While this is random, and seldom happens, it is quite annoying.

It would be good to hear multiple opinions on this. What do you think? Feel free to post additional suggestions.

iBananco [Blue Army] September 30 2008 11:38 AM EDT

"I'm thinking maybe give a 10% damage bonus to center minions; that is, the minions in the center of the team (and if there are no center minions [1-2 minions], then no bonus damage)."
Approval.

Goodfish September 30 2008 11:41 AM EDT

Similarly, CoC could have a SoD-like effect, dealing ~70% of its total damage to the central minion, and dealing ~30% "splash" to surrounding ones. Shrug.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 30 2008 11:42 AM EDT

i would like to see the bug list addressed, that would be excellent.

th00p September 30 2008 11:58 AM EDT

UC, UC, UC.

Solare September 30 2008 11:59 AM EDT

Good call. UC does apparently have some issues. How should we fix it (to all UC users)?

Godpanda September 30 2008 12:00 PM EDT

All those ideas have been discussed before and all are very good ideas. I hope some of these are considered.


Also, yeah, bug list. Would be great.

lostling September 30 2008 12:10 PM EDT

COC is spread... isnt that nice enough?

maybe it should go in the opposite direction... tuning down SG AC bonus perhaps?

three4thsforsaken September 30 2008 1:52 PM EDT

I find the CoC and MM ideas kinda odd. I think a damage increase for CoC or a ranged modifier reduc for MM would be sufficient. An small voporal effect would do very little.

QBOddBird September 30 2008 2:38 PM EDT



I'd like to see the bug list addressed as well.




I would also like to see that new Defensive Enchantment that we were told would replace the old Protection ED slot.

Colonel Custard September 30 2008 6:33 PM EDT

I like the suggestion for CoC. However, given the way that its damage spreads and concentrates, I think it would have to be a more sophisticated system.

1. According to what I've heard, a large CoC will hit a single minion harder than an equal-leveled SG in most cases, so it's already good against single-minion teams. I suspect that against most two-minion teams it should still fair well because it's not splitting the damage 3/4/5 ways.
2. If it were a flat 10% bonus against each "center" minion, 4-minion teams with a familiar would get a huge damage boost against them, as it's a 10% boost against 3 different minions. I'm not sure this is a huge issue, though, because assuming that damage splits equally among targets (I'm not 100% sure how it works, really), then a 3-minion team would have 33% of the damage done to it boosted by 10%, meaning only a 3.3% boost to total damage. A 4-minion team would have 10% of 50% (that hits the two middle minions), meaning a 5% total boost. A 5-minion team would get damage boosted by 6.6% total. This doesn't seem like a lot, but Jon apparently thought that 5% damage reduction was enough for SG, a spell that everyone has been complaining is grossly overpowered. Balance is delicate, I guess.
3. Someone brought up making it "Like the SoD." The difference between CoC and SoD is that if there's only one target for the SoD, it does much less damage than if there are three. To go along with this, the SoD is a much worse weapon to use against single minions than most other ranged weapons. If CoC is already really effective against single minions, due to concentration, then making it more effective against multiple minions wouldn't appear balanced to me. It sounds to me like you're trying to make all the spells "as good as SG," while I think that SG is a rather poor benchmark for balance.

I dunno why I'm enumerating; the points clearly aren't consecutive, and they're barely separate.

All that said, I find the CoC idea to be quite intriguing. If it hits middle minions harder, there might need to be some minion-order shuffling for a lot of people who've used a sandwich defense for their damage dealer. On the other side of it, though, it could also make minion order meaningless and take that part out of strategy, because really every minion is vulnerable to the most damage from certain opponents, no matter when they are on a team.
I just think CoC doesn't need a boost against multi-minions if it's also already the best against single minions.

I'm all for a boost to MM. Just a small one, though.

I think ranged damage needs to be looked at again. I feel like the damage nerfs put in place earlier this month were a little extreme, and affect everyone adversely. I think that FB's drawbacks were only really warranted when it was a plausible notion that you could kill the other team in ranged. If you have ranged penalties to damage, and then get your damage boosted just in time for it to hurt you more than you've hurt your opponent for 6 whole rounds, it's useless.
That said, a boost to Fireball's ranged damage, or a lifting of the penalties, would create balance issues calling for a readjustment of all the other ranged damage. Gah.

To 4) True. If it's made more likely that they will miss a little bit, a readjustment of ranged damage could be considered.

I'm with Zaekyr's idea of having regen happen at the beginning of the round, rather than the end.

Colonel Custard September 30 2008 6:34 PM EDT

And bug list, UC, and ED. Yay!

Kefeck [BlackSmith] September 30 2008 6:52 PM EDT

Maybe make it so the pm box doesnt disapear for those of us that stay on all the time.

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] September 30 2008 7:41 PM EDT

^ Agreed

Zaekyr October 1 2008 2:04 AM EDT

I also believe in reducing ELB/Mgsk BTH at least a little bit.Maybe 90% for ELB and 85% for Mgsk.

Perhaps the best way to fix TSA problems is to have the TSA work at the beginning of rounds instead of at the end.Since at the end of each round each minion is checked for HP(death) status the TSA would not revive after death if it worked at the beginning of the next round.It would only work if the minion wearing it is still alive obviously.VA would be the only way to come back from death and it can be countered.

I think the ToE could be better tweeked if instead of steel skin it did something else more useful.With the RoBF reducing DD and granting evasion and dealing damage.And the RoS boosting DE and countering some DM.Then the ToA and familiars all being more useful the ToE seems awfully weak.I have thought of three interesting things it could do:

1.Give the minion wearing the ToE regeneration like the TSA.Since it is a tat you couldn't wear the TSA and combine the effects of them both.It would make the ToE more useful and if that seems like too much it could only maybe do 2% regeneration instead of the 3% the TSA gives.

2.Perhaps it could boost the HP of the minion wearing it by 10% or so.i.e. if the minion has 1 mil HP he would get 100k extra HP from wearing the ToE.The boosted minion cannot wear a TSA so it shouldn't be bad.This isn't a great idea but still better than SS I think.

3.Maybe grant the minion wearing it some AC.Since tats take up two armor slots it would be nice to have a tat that gave some AC and the ToE seems the best to do it.I am not sure of the amount but somewhere around 5-10 AC per 100k-200k tat level would be reasonable and far more useful than SS.

PearsonTritonRaveshaw October 1 2008 2:19 AM EDT

"1.Give the minion wearing the ToE regeneration like the TSA.Since it is a tat you couldn't wear the TSA and combine the effects of them both.It would make the ToE more useful and if that seems like too much it could only maybe do 2% regeneration instead of the 3% the TSA gives."

How about a % of the tattoo level? If it were a % of HP, anybody could slap on a base ToE and skip the 3 mil price tag of the TSA. Maybe have it regenerate 3% of the tattoo's level in HP. Regenerating it past max trained HP or not is entirely up to Jon. I don't see what massive harm it could really do if it regenerated past max HP like VA.

Obscurans October 1 2008 2:22 AM EDT

TSA again eh? I've said this before, how to shot hiding in death problem:

Begin round
Record max(current HP of TSA-wearing minion, max HP of same)
Add TSA regen to current HP
(fight)
Cap HP at recorded value
End round

Zaekyr October 1 2008 3:54 AM EDT

I think that may be too overpowered Rave.I have a four minion team and the one with the highest HP is 470k my tat is 2.2 mil.........huge difference.

The only way to have it fairly based on tat level would be 1% regen per 1 mil level.But of course that might work for now although it would be just a matter of time before that was imbalanced.

I just think having a tat grant SS to the wearer is counterintuitive.I also think having it blanket a team with SS would be too much also.

So I threw some ideas out.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 1 2008 4:15 AM EDT

Obs,

"TSA again eh? I've said this before, how to shot hiding in death problem:

Begin round
Record max(current HP of TSA-wearing minion, max HP of same)
Add TSA regen to current HP
(fight)
Cap HP at recorded value
End round"

How would that interact with a Minion with a TSA and VA? VA should be able to take the minion above thier Max HP.

Obscurans October 1 2008 4:31 AM EDT

If VA's supposed to be able to break the cap, then add the drain to both current HP and end-of-round HP cap at the same time ;)

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 1 2008 8:51 AM EDT

CoC hitting the middle of the minions the hardest? No, that would make the spell too powerful way too quick. CoC already turns out heaps of damage adding that would make it OP and thus useless.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] October 1 2008 4:16 PM EDT

Forging EXP! A forging tattoo! Forging characters!

Or anything to give forging a boost. Forging is fun but terribly not profitable.

Goodfish October 1 2008 4:31 PM EDT

>>Forging EXP! A forging tattoo! Forging characters!
Or anything to give forging a boost. Forging is fun but terribly not profitable.

The obvious answer here is to stop doing it for profit and start doing it for your own equipment. I never thought forging was a good idea, and I still Blacksmith all my stuff. Shrug.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] October 1 2008 4:34 PM EDT

Part of the fun from forging comes in the form of making deals, making records, planning your prices, interacting with customers...my limited practice of the profession made me realize that.

Goodfish October 1 2008 4:36 PM EDT

So then why does forging need a change...? ;)

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] October 1 2008 4:38 PM EDT

To heck with your logic! Aaaargh!

Because I am greedy! That's why! YOU SEE THROUGH ME!
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