T:32 Standard (in Contests)
You may use Decay
You may not use any tattoos
You may not buy items via auctions from any player participating in the
tournament, including yourself.
You may not sell items to the store with your non-tournament character, in
order to buy them or transfer them to another tournament character.
You may not retire your tournament character unless you plan on creating a new
tournament character, or quitting the tournament. Please chatmail Slayer333 if
you retire your tournament character early.
You must use at least 1/2 of the BA cap to be eligible for a prize in any
You may not intentionally "gimp" a character so that it is beatable by
1st) 3,000,000 CBD + A Pair of Elven Boots
2nd) 1,000,000 CBD
3rd) A tattoo of your choice:
*A Rune of Balrog Flame lvl 26,795
*A Rune of Solitude lvl 22,952
*A Jigorokano Familiar lvl 12,632
*A Lesser Tattoo of Endurance lvl 8,266
How Do I Win?
Have the highest MPR!
October 3 2008 6:52 PM EDT
You do realize a RoE could sell for almost as much as the first place prize??
October 3 2008 6:53 PM EDT
October 3 2008 6:57 PM EDT
When does this start?
Why not anymore? $11 is a heck of a lot of CB? You using some form of precognition to deduct that Jon is going to delete them?
If you want slayer I have a few base tats to add, I'll post them when I get home.
October 3 2008 7:47 PM EDT
3k BA cap right? and do we get starting BA?
I have a few as well on other characters, I'll update that later on
October 3 2008 8:01 PM EDT
Latest RoE auctions have been dropping in price, that is where I based my argument.
RoE auctions are still well over 2 million.
October 3 2008 8:42 PM EDT
Depending on the NW of the EBs, the first place prize is at least 2 times the worth of the third place prize.
October 3 2008 8:59 PM EDT
Yeah, 2nd place should be RoE + 500k, and third place should be a tattoo of choice + 500k ;)
And about the "You may not buy items via auctions from any player participating in the tournament"... does that mean I have to check that the seller doesn't have a character in the tournament ? What if he creates a tournament account after I place my initial bid ?
OR does that just mean "you may not buy items sold by a tournament character" ?
missed the RoE - just copy/pasted the tats, will remove it
October 3 2008 11:35 PM EDT
Are we required to fight tournament characters after a certain day?
A Whip [9x1] (+0) (tournament characters may not sell valuable items directly to the store. use auctions instead)
I dont think thats valuable.
October 5 2008 11:11 PM EDT
Same here, just noticed...
The following items could not be assigned:
A Sling [1x3] (+1) (tournament characters may not sell valuable items directly to the store. use auctions instead)
Other assignments, if any, succeeded.
So since there are at least 4 tats in the prizes section. Does that meen there is a 3rd, 4th, and 5th place finish too?
the tats listed are the ones from which 3rd place can choose.
Ha. So. The left over tats just kind of go back into storage?
i would assume that they would go back into the tourney pot for a later time.
October 6 2008 1:52 PM EDT
let me get this straight... you cant restart... right? restarting = dq?
yah you can restart 3D restarted.
October 6 2008 1:56 PM EDT
October 6 2008 2:03 PM EDT
"You may not retire your tournament character unless you plan on creating a new tournament character, or quitting the tournament. Please chatmail Slayer333 if you retire your tournament character early."
I'm just naming them DQ so I know who to ignore
i couldn't find it stated anywhere, but when is the tourney over?
October 6 2008 4:29 PM EDT
thanks, i thought all tourneys were a week now, but couldn't find it in the post or wiki for tournament info.
I saw a bunch of DQs, but what did they do? just so that I can avoid the mistake
October 7 2008 4:52 PM EDT
Eh, I don't know why do I even bother doing this and just reset.
It's obvious who'll win.
SFBM, saving all/most cash, buying 3 additional minions in the end.
Whichever SFBM picks the highest PR unequiped tanks out there as their targets and misses least offensive battles wins.
Oh well, if nothing else, then at least the fun in trying out crazy things.
But seriously, tournaments won by MPR ? Lame :(
There's one "best" strategy, and this means it's not really a tournament, now is it ?
October 7 2008 9:00 PM EDT
You should stick with the tourney to give me another person to fight. :)
October 7 2008 9:06 PM EDT
look around... whos fighting unequipped tanks?
Sick no ones fighting unequiped abandoned tanks. everyone is fighting Other tournament members now.
October 7 2008 9:30 PM EDT
I have 2 unequipped tanks on my list.
October 8 2008 2:02 AM EDT
"But seriously, tournaments won by MPR ? Lame :( "
I found the super carnage brothers melee one to be very entertaining. It was a win by win%. I broke the limit for looking at recent battles to check my/other win percentages 3 times.
haha. That does sound like fun.
October 8 2008 3:13 AM EDT
"look around... whos fighting unequipped tanks? "
Well not necessarily tanks without any gear at all, but at least partially stripped of equipment.
In the early phases, of course, there were plenty of such attacks on non-tournament targets. Where else would this HUGE score for every tournament member come from ?
Now, it's easier to just attack other tournament members, true, since nobody outside the tournament is likely to attack them, so score that was leeched early on can keep rotating inside the tournament guaranteeing a 100% challenge bonus for everybody.
Also, still, the "single cheap minion then hire three more at the end" is the only winning strategy, with a huge MPR advantage over any other strategy by far.
You could probably earn around 4 mil CB$ during the tournament, that's more than plenty additional XP (and MPR) if converted into it at the end. Can you deny this part ?
Also, with everybody getting a 100% challenge bonus, there's little difference in growth rates once the scores "stabilize" at a high enough level, so again, the only thing that matters is who has less minions so he can hire more at the end.
If use dont like the tournament for what it is than stay out???
October 8 2008 3:22 AM EDT
training gave the huge scores... and non tourny characters cant fight tourny characters... get your facts straight....
theres always certain way to play different tournies... so if you really hate it so much just dont play it -.- or take another step... design a tourny that YOU would like instead of whining
October 8 2008 3:44 AM EDT
No, training alone couldn't have given those scores.
The new score increase mechanic whenever MPR increases only helped amplify those scores, but the initial score/(M)PR ratio had to be way above one to begin with, since training doesn't affect the ratio at all.
Also, the winning condition is the only thing I'm "whining" about.
Ok, want me to design a tournament ?
1. Tournament members are only allowed to attack other tournament members (enforced by code not oversight).
2. Admins set up a few tournament member "dummy" characters at a fixed (can not be altered by attacks) 1, 10, 100, 1000 and 10k score/PR to serve as targets for the early starters (team composition, gear and XP distribution copied over from some random characters close to those landmarks).
3. Everything else goes (tattoos, decay, anything)
4. 1 month long tournament (the current 400% bonus seems quite nice, but even higher won't hurt)
5. 12k BA limit, must fight at least 8k to qualify
6. Winner determined by won/fought ratio
October 8 2008 3:51 AM EDT
won/fought ratios have many flaws personally i think its a stupid system to determine the winner... but to each their own and yes im 100% certain its by training check out the score to MPR graphs if you dont believe me...
need i mention that theres only 1 tourny admin.... a tourny this size better give good prizes or i sure as hell aint gona even try to play it.... i mean 1 week is bad... but one whole month?
October 8 2008 4:08 AM EDT
Ok, then how about (won battles / total battles) * (Your MPR / Top Tournament MPR) ?
Remember, other than some pathetically small "targets" (heck, might as well just leave the 1, 10 and 100 MPR "dummy targets" in, nothing larger), you can't fight under the proposed rules anybody except other tournament members. So, yes, won/total matters a lot, especially if weighted against MPR.
ALSO, like I just said : it's not JUST from training.
Training keep the same score/MPR ratio.
If you were at 30k score and 30k MPR, and you trained up to 35k MPR, you would only have a 35k score.
You need to have a significantly higher score compared to MPR first, and that score has to come from somewhere.
Considering my score right now in the tournament is 20 times larger than my MPR, you can easily see it DIDN'T come from JUST training.
October 8 2008 4:25 AM EDT
Yes Sickone, the scores are due to training and training alone. I had something like an 800k score with under 4k MPR. Every time I trained it shot up by the tens of thousands.
MPR tournaments are just as "flawed" as any other tournament. For the life of me I cannot figure out why you defend them so vigorously. Everyone is getting a 100% challenge bonus. If you aren't a single minion you cannot compete for a prize regardless of strategy.
Win/Loss ratio at least required players to adapt their strategies mid tournament.
October 8 2008 4:29 AM EDT
how have i defended MPR tournies? maybe you should actually read before posting
October 8 2008 4:34 AM EDT
Read before posting? I am not talking about this thread. Slow your roll kiddo. You've complained in the past about the tournament design and always suggested an MPR tournament.
October 8 2008 4:34 AM EDT
"Yes Sickone, the scores are due to training and training alone. I had something like an 800k score with under 4k MPR."
In the very early stages of the tournament, you would barely see people with scores slightly larger than their MPR.
The only moment when scores started shooting up was when some people started leeching score from some high-score targets.
THEN the training amplified those score advantages, and people MUCH lower in MPR attacking those with high scores amplified it even more, and so on and so forth in a cascading effect.
If nobody could attack outside the tournament, nobody could have a much higher score/MPR ratio, and there would be nothing there to heavily amplify.
Getting any challenge bonus at all would be, well, a challenge.
October 8 2008 4:43 AM EDT
"You've complained in the past about the tournament design and always suggested an MPR tournament."
the only tourny design i've complained about is score tourny
i have NEVER suggested an MPR tourny...
infact i would like a tourny to be fun ... for example this one that slayer rejected... the person who burns the most BA wins
and yes i even checked the last 3-4 tourny post and i have never promoted MPR tournies yet
October 8 2008 8:49 AM EDT
Well, either way, you DO agree that the way it is set up now it's next to meaningless, don't you ?
Granted, not *quite* meaningless, but pretty damned close anyway.
I would like a new tourny where players are given like 500m CBD or something (not transferrable - auction bids monitored or limited, and only can buy stuff from a store for tourny characters using auction prices for pricing) and so basically we can have any sort of insane equipment (ok, not 500m, but say 10m?)
October 8 2008 10:08 AM EDT
"You may not buy items via auctions from any player participating in the tournament, including yourself."
But does that mean you can still purchase items from auctions? And if so... what happens if the person that sells the item in auctions later joins the tourney?
You can purchase items from auctions, if there is an issue with bad timing it is easy enough to work out - I will always talk to a player before deciding to disqualify them.
As for win conditions, please, feel free to bombard me with CMs, PMs, Emails, and whatnot. Some of this stuff I just cannot do, or would require Jon to create some new stuff.
I don't think MPR tournaments are meaningless, it is not easy to maximize your rewards at that level, and having highest MPR will generally mean you've done the best job at that, assuming you burn all 3000 BA.
October 8 2008 7:22 PM EDT
"I don't think MPR tournaments are meaningless, it is not easy to maximize your rewards at that level"
Have you looked at the scores of people actively playing in the tournament ? Only a handfull of people needed to get a decent score, afterwards the score ratios multiplied and spread around thanks to the new training score adjustment system.
You'd literally have to not be able to fight any other tournament members in order to not get a 100% challenge bonus.
And since the PR of the opponent is far less important than the additional 33% XP you can gain by hiring 3 minions at the end and even less significant to the challenge bonus... well, you get the idea.
tournaments have been this way since their inception in cb2, the new score system hasn't changed anything in my opinion. someone would always find some outside targets that were overscored and would have the same affect as now.
there is a strategy, and you seem to understand it but want to change it. i chose to do 4 minions from the start just to see if i could pull it off and get even close to the top in this one.
slayer is very willing to make changes based on input, he is limited by what he is given to work with.
i think one of the only things that i can think of for improvement is to not allow characters to be retired but still allow people to start over. that would make it easier for people starting late to have some targets available.
October 8 2008 7:49 PM EDT
Yeah, the new score system only amplified that situation to its most bizzare extreme :)
Also, same thing here, started off as a 4-minion team instead of single minion in spite of the fact I'd have no chance of winning, just because I can test out crazy strats like this and wanted to see just how much of a disadvantage I'd find myself in at the end while still fighting to the best of my ability (except for the refusal to take the obvious winning solution).
I just hope that sooner or later the BA regen rates are fixed for tourneys... I can't keep getting shafted out of about 30 BA per 5 hours just because my main character is in 6/20 refresh.
Maybe an idea is to start everyone with the exact 3k BA and let them burn their ba at their own pace... It gets rid of the whole refresh rate issue and puts everyone on equal footing. If someone wants to fight non tourney chars from the start and not get the extra bonus from fighting tourney characters, that is their choice.
October 8 2008 11:05 PM EDT
not just tourny BA... BA regen has always been a 95%-98% chance of success kinda thing
i do think the ba regen issue hampers enjoyment of tournaments, another solution is that since we have so long between tourneys why not allow them to last ten days or even two weeks?
When does this tourney end? Give me a day.
would people be opposed to starting with 3,000 or whatever amount of BA from the start? That I can do, if refresh rates are indeed a widespread problem.
Why not just some how have the reset be the same as what your natural BA would reset at? I am kind of against it not going to lie. It promotes lazyness i think.
October 9 2008 12:15 AM EDT
I think that would work, but perhaps not allow retiring of tourney chars and then a restart? Because someone could go through 3000, not like the end result, and then start again, with a never ending cycle. That would make it tougher on you to do all the DQ stuff too.
October 9 2008 12:17 AM EDT
how about if u restart your BA is halfed
October 9 2008 12:18 AM EDT
or could we just get it fixed :) pretty please jon
i am cool with the 3000 from the start but would still like to see the tourneys go a bit longer since they occur more rarely now. perhaps that would increase participation and allow more people to join the fun.
October 9 2008 3:33 AM EDT
I think the tournaments are fine as is.
I wish they would last longer :(
October 9 2008 4:27 AM EDT
Actually, it would be nice of them to only last a week... if we would have two tournaments per month :D
3k BA from the start sounds reasonable, or whatever the tournament BA cap might be.
Are you sure it won't reset to 1600 BA after you fight your first fight or at the first cache flush ? No offense, just asking, better safe than sorry :)
But then again if that's possible, then IF reset is to be allowed at all under this rule, reset should only be allowable without disqualification if you spent between 1k and 2k BA, and you would be limited to, say, one reset per person per tournament ?
Are you handing out 100k to the people that come in within 75% of top persons Mpr Slayer? Or you just gonna run with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd?
October 9 2008 8:17 AM EDT
I think that starting the tourney with 3k BA would be a great idea.
October 9 2008 8:41 AM EDT
Ok, how about predictions... where do you think you'll finish this tournament ?
I expect to be at around 110k MPR when I'm done burning 3k BA, if I manage to burn them... started as 4-minion team, btw.
October 9 2008 9:35 AM EDT
well, I'm pretty sure if I burn all 3k BA then I'll get at least 3rd place.
October 9 2008 10:55 AM EDT
Actually, you might even be able to win this tournament :)
I guesstimate you'll end up at around 150k MPR if you manage to burn all 3k BA and then can hire three minions with the "expensive" option (or at least 120k MPR with no hirings).
Elitist already has 3 minions and not much BA left (plus he's next to broke right now), so he'll end up at around 115k MPR without hiring, maybe 125k tops with hiring.
Draco already has 3 minions too, but a lot more BA, likely finishes around 120-125k MPR.
Jarl is pretty much tied with you, a tad bit behind, same prospects of nearly 120k MPR with no hirings, almost 150k MPR with hirings at the end.
Tank will end up slightly below 120k MPR most likely, with no chance to hire.
Blessed will probably end up at around 105k MPR, plus hirings at around 130k MPR.
Tornangel won't be hitting 80k MPR, and even with hirings he won't get to 100k.
ninski is already a 4-minion team, best prospects a bit below 110k MPR finish
Procrastination, 4 minion, around 125k MPR finish
All of the above assumes all these people manage to finish burning 3k BA by the end of the tournament... obviously, if they don't, actual end-results will be lower.
So, if all goes well, you win, Jarl comes in second, and the third place will be a heavily fought over place, but Blessed looks like the favourite right now.
If you don't manage to burn all BA or you are out of cash for hiring, who knows.
October 9 2008 10:59 AM EDT
tornangel hasn't trained for 400 BA so he has a lot of exp saved up. so tornangel, Jarl, and me are probably going to win.
October 9 2008 11:09 AM EDT
Out of curiosity, what's the cash cost of hiring a new minion for you right now ?
October 9 2008 11:13 AM EDT
Enlist for $430,924 Enlist for $172,369
Are you going to have time to finish super i'm pretty sure this ends tomorow?
October 9 2008 11:25 AM EDT
It ends on Sunday at 12:00 PM, I have time to get 3k BA.
October 9 2008 11:33 AM EDT
Yeah, we're only a bit past half-time in the tournament, plenty of time left.
Theoretically, if you're online enough, even people who only burned 1k BA should be able to reach 3k.
October 9 2008 11:35 AM EDT
Heh, you can afford to splurge almost 1 mil on gear and still have enough left to hire all three at the end (under 1 mil per minion, 3 minions, aprox 4 mil total earnings, give or take).
October 9 2008 11:35 AM EDT
would I win if I burn only 2.7k BA?
October 9 2008 11:37 AM EDT
If what you say is true and tornangel has been saving up BA, it's going to be a pretty close three-way race between him, you and Jarl.
So if you burn only 2.7k and they burn 3k, you only get 3rd place.
October 9 2008 11:37 AM EDT
I mean saving up XP, not BA, sorry.
October 9 2008 11:41 AM EDT
You can't reasonably predict who will come out on top of the three of us. MPR/BA is not a constant and fluctuates +/- 1 every couple hundred BA. My MPR/BA at 42.5 for a while. The only certainty is that myself, lostling, and SK "should" finish as the top 3. The randomness of exp/fight and other people feeding draws and/or wins will ultimately determine the winner.
October 9 2008 11:41 AM EDT
I'm doing a bit better than them because I think I got 70 or so draws from tornangel.
October 9 2008 11:44 AM EDT
That is not entirely true. Your Challenged vs. Won ratio is still lower.
October 9 2008 11:47 AM EDT
My MPR divided by my BA spent is 40.6 and yours is 39.6 unless you haven't trained.
October 9 2008 11:50 AM EDT
That doesn't matter. My MPR/BA was over 42 for a while. It will slowly decline. You've spent a lot less BA than I. I've been monitoring my growth since restarting this character and with certainty I can say that MPR/BA will decrease. It is useful for ensuring you are being competitive, but it is by no means a constant number.
October 9 2008 11:58 AM EDT
put it this way.... MPR is non linear :) of course it will decline... and the randomness of battle rewards means that SK might win :)
October 9 2008 12:06 PM EDT
why'd you save up exp?
October 9 2008 12:32 PM EDT
"put it this way.... MPR is non linear :) of course it will decline... and the randomness of battle rewards means that SK might win :)"
I'm glad that you can successfully reword what I just said. Want a cookie?
October 9 2008 12:34 PM EDT
yes gimme a big cookie :) tasty
I doubt you'll get third if you only fight 2.7k.
October 9 2008 1:04 PM EDT
I can hire 3 minions which would get me a huge advantage.
So can I. I dont know this is to close to call right now. A lot can still happen, and will happen.
October 10 2008 12:13 AM EDT
since everyone is getting 100% wouldnt it make sense to fight the people with the highest PR u can beat? or it doesnt matter?
October 10 2008 12:54 AM EDT
/me would like to take this moment to remember draco :) even though he probably cant be in the top 3 he PWN ALL OF YOU in the tourny :)
Another idea that came up in chat Courtesy of lost, 1500 ba to start then regen the other half. The only issue I see with starting with any Ba is there won't be very many tourney chars to fight along the way.... so whoever hits the most tourney chars will win the tourney.
<lostling> only people who start in the 1st 2 days get it
Lostling also pointed out that, the reason for the only first two days thing is it will discourage starting over.
October 11 2008 12:42 PM EDT
T32 DrAcO (122792)
October 11 2008 2:15 PM EDT
This is weird, wasn't this supposed to last until tomorrow ?
Oh well :|
yeah no kidding. thats what i thought also. So i'm missing about 800k worth of exp. Plus three hirings.. not happy -_-.
October 11 2008 2:20 PM EDT
Hmm... no, wait, it DID start at noon server time on the 4th.
I started a day late but thought it was the first day :(
October 11 2008 2:27 PM EDT
what happened, this started on sunday?
October 11 2008 2:30 PM EDT
This tournament started on the 5th and ended on the 11th? That's definitely not fair.
October 11 2008 2:36 PM EDT
Didn't it start Saturday at noon ?
So it says in this thread...
So I was right, it actually started at noon on the 5th like I first thought before reading that post ?
October 11 2008 2:37 PM EDT
Community, Tournaments, then it says it started the 5th and ended at 12:00 pm today.
Prizes, including participation prizes, are all sent. DrAcO, please CM me your choice of tattoo.
we need 75% to get participation prize, right?
I thought I would have made top 75% of MPR, unless others just hired 3 minion and triple/quad theirs.
if you click on your user link, then click on the (tournament 32) link to the right of your retired tournament characters name, you can still see all the stats and check for yourself.
nope. that disappeared as well.
found it. and just missed out because some single minion team bought 3 more.
yeah, i missed it by 3k mpr, hehe.
I played almost all my BA, except maybe 2x 160 refresh, and still miss out on participation prize. So much for "participation".
we will try out a BA based participation prize for T33
October 12 2008 12:28 AM EDT
Be nice, Slayer does a lot of work to keep these going ^.^
Also keep in mind he doesn't have unlimited funds either.
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