Save Mageseeker. (in General)

Little Anthony October 25 2008 3:34 PM EDT

I just want to point out that Msk needs to be saved. I have to use Soxjr as an example 'cause he has the biggest and mean Msk. Against me who does not have any direct defense it. He still couldn't kill my mage.
direct defense means : DB and/or evasion.
Range is nerfed too much in my opinion.

just my 2 cents.

Yukk October 25 2008 3:42 PM EDT

I have to agree, but we'll hear the mages whining for sure. With a 32M ELB and a minion 100% dedicated to being an archer, I do less damage with that minion than an enchanter that's dedicated about 10% of its XP to DD. Ranged got more rounds, true, but unless you're Mikel with a 500M weapon and a ToA archery is pretty useless. Still, I ride with it since I don't change my strat every time I get nerfed.

lostling October 25 2008 3:53 PM EDT

one thing i should point out is... soxjr is half your MPR... and furthermore his TOA is quite small lol

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] October 25 2008 3:54 PM EDT

Lost, I do more damage in Melee with my ELB than I do in Ranged with my ELB. And thats as a pure Archer with ToA.

3D October 25 2008 3:56 PM EDT

But you also hit less due to DX drop

Little Anthony October 25 2008 3:59 PM EDT

mpr doesn't concern much since you have to account to which exp matters.
100% of his strategy direct to kill my strategy while i have :
a huge wall - doesn't affect him.
a huge enchanter- doesn't do anything to him with AmF.

So only my 10mil HP of PL + mage combine. against his strategy for total of 100% exp of his. it's quite fair then. Plus i tested this when my mage has 20 AC or so. And yet, cannot beat the mage in 6 rounds.

lostling October 25 2008 4:01 PM EDT

dex doesnt matter against mages.... PTh reduction probably would... so he loses 1 hit... and gains a ton of damage... although i doubt he goes into melee much since LA would probably blow him away in the 1st round of melee or last ranged with HOC

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] October 25 2008 4:13 PM EDT

3D: I go into Melee maybe once every time I burn BA. I end up hitting 2/3 of the time I'm in melee even with the DX hit.

Solare October 25 2008 4:22 PM EDT

Soxjr hits me hard, even with the ToE. I think if his bow was on, say, Soul Collector, his minion would kill my mage in 2 rounds. Soxjr does 2 million damage to my mage in 2 rounds of combat, with my ToE equipped.
I don't think MSK needs fixing. I think it does its job quite nicely.

lostling October 25 2008 4:33 PM EDT

you are perhaps forgeting the 2 TSAs :) and the PL natural 10% reduction in damage

QBJohnnywas October 25 2008 4:39 PM EDT

Sox hit The Illusion's familiar with Spiral [436809]
The Illusion's familiar's Guardian Angel smote Sox (230872)
Sox hit The Illusion's familiar with Spiral [458869]
The Illusion's familiar's Guardian Angel smote Sox (247968)
Sox hit The Illusion's familiar with Spiral [401324]
The Illusion's familiar's Guardian Angel smote Sox (211827)
Sox shot The Illusion's familiar with Spiral [507577]
The Illusion's familiar's Guardian Angel smote Sox (269633)

That's not too shabby in one round, nearly 2 mill damage. My 7 mill level DD does about 2.5 mill tops per round.

Doesn't really need fixing. Although I would like to see some higher physical damage levels for the money some people have spent on them.

lostling October 25 2008 5:09 PM EDT

check melee =x apparently theres where bows shine =x

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] October 25 2008 5:20 PM EDT

I'm still confused how I can do 25k Average Damage in Melee but only 17k Average Damage in Ranged.

Soxjr October 25 2008 6:15 PM EDT

I feel so special being the topic of this conversation. I personally don't know how good or bad the ranged damage penalties hit me, but here are some stats so everyone can discuss more.

Spiral [5x4000] (+220) 115,978,483

is my bow, so really my x damage part is very very low compared to other bows. my bonus to hit is 248 with my ToA and my str is just over 6 mil and dex is just over 4 mil. I currently have 1.0 archery and casting about 750k on DM. I figure if I could get my bow to x10k or something like that.. I would do a ton more damage and people would be asking for a nerf of it :) haha.

Conquest October 25 2008 6:29 PM EDT

Just out of curiousity Sox, at what point is that minion encumbered?

Soxjr October 25 2008 6:34 PM EDT

Net Worth: $123,213,535
Encumbered at: 329,059,663

Yeah. I would need USD and a lot of it to get that. lol

Soxjr October 25 2008 11:30 PM EDT

no ... don't let the thread die out... I enjoy the flattery of being the topic of a thread :)

Yukk October 26 2008 12:02 AM EDT

It really is sad when bows do more damage in melee than they do in ranged. I know, suspension of belief and all that but ... really ?!

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] October 26 2008 12:04 AM EDT

I'm actually happier when I make it to melee because even with the Dex hit, I still hit often enough to finish combat then and there. Unless its a CoC Mage...

Yukk October 28 2008 2:40 AM EDT

You know, SG, with the VB nerfed into the ground, I should probably give it up since my bow is, apparently, sharper.

Usul [CHOAM] October 28 2008 2:56 AM EDT

It's called point blank shot, Yukk :D

Sickone October 28 2008 3:42 AM EDT

"It really is sad when bows do more damage in melee than they do in ranged. I know, suspension of belief and all that but ... really ?!"

Ranged damage was unilaterally reduced to 60% of original ranged damage when ranged rounds were increased from 3 to 5, so that "total" ranged damage would allegedly remain roughly the same (of course, a HoC archer used to have 4 now 6 rounds, so it's only 90% of previous damage level).
MELEE damage however was not affected right then, so naturally, now, bows deal 66% more damage during melee rounds compared to ranged rounds.

Bows also only fire "every other melee round", so overall you might get 166% damage in 1st and 3rd round, but on average it's just 83% of the ranged damage per round.

And last but not least, a shorter while back magic damage was only reduced to 2/3, while physical damage of all kinds got reduced an additional 2/3 (to 4/9 of previous ranged damage).

So, compared to the "good old days" of 3-rounds-ranged, bows only deal 26.6% of the damage they used to deal per round. Yup, that's almost a factor of four overall. The fact ranged is now 5 instead of 3 (or 6 instead of 4) doesn't really help all that much :)

Wizard'sFirstRule October 28 2008 5:22 AM EDT

I think something is wrong when you can't beat a single mage with mageseeker. Soxjr, has 3.7m PR, 2.3 MPR, compared to my 3.6m PR, 2.8m MPR. I don't see how I deserve to win that fight.

Wizard'sFirstRule October 28 2008 5:44 AM EDT

I think mageseeker should do 20% less damage, but against anyone training DD it would do 40% more (80 * 1.4 = 112%)

Colonel Custard October 28 2008 7:22 AM EDT

Hmm, that's an idea. Have it not only seek mages, but hit them harder...

Solare October 28 2008 7:53 AM EDT

Well, your character Pyromancer has 6000000 HP compared to sox's ~4.5 mil for starters, and your MPR is about 400k+ higher. Its a match you deserve to win, seemingly. Sox's bow hits hard; it could easily take out a single FB mage of equal MPR and equal HP.
Bows already do a nice chunk of damage, with their damage being reduced so much. Archers still do more damage cumulatively, compared to when Evasion was too good (in which case they whiffed all the time); at least against previously high Evasion opponents. The advantage of physical is not to hit hard per swing, but to receive the benefit of multiple swings per round. That's how it seems to be.

Sickone October 28 2008 12:36 PM EDT

Hey *I* lose to Pyromancer too, and I have a much better MPB :)
Granted, we occasionally draw...

Over here - almost x3000 ELBow, 8 mil ST, but only hit 3 times per round usually instead of 4 times usually like Sox.

Cube October 28 2008 1:51 PM EDT

He's got GA though, most single mages don't.

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] October 28 2008 3:01 PM EDT

Ranged Hits / Shots / Avg Damage 11 / 11 / 21,911

Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 3 / 3 / 26,544

Against The Midnight Carnival

That makes me cry.

three4thsforsaken October 28 2008 3:58 PM EDT

I think ranged in general could use another ranged round since the damage nerf.

Sickone October 28 2008 4:43 PM EDT

Occam's Razor defeated Moirae (2Days Klassix) after 11 rounds of combat (that would be 6 ranged and 5 melee)
Ranged Hits / Shots / Avg Damage 8 / 9 / 671,111
Melee Hits / Blows / Avg Damage 3 / 3 / 752,709

Wizard'sFirstRule October 28 2008 7:19 PM EDT

I am all for an extra range round without damage nerf.That means I beat archers that much easier. considering I should be doing more damage per round. :P

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] October 28 2008 9:32 PM EDT

Sadly, I don't have a boost to my ranged rounds just yet because I don't have an HoC. I'm working purely on my Dex advantage.

Sickone October 29 2008 4:48 AM EDT

You should just increase the bow x for all incoming cash :)
Of course, don't go over encumbrance limit, but that shouldn't be a problem at all.

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] October 29 2008 5:13 AM EDT

Net Worth: $3,822,295
Encumbered at: 7,228,613

Heh... I don't have that kind of cash.

Sickone October 29 2008 11:50 AM EDT

Net Worth: $30,441,808
Encumbered at: 378,044,542

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