Clan Participation. (in General)


Godpanda November 21 2008 7:20 AM EST

What's up? Seriously? Everyone in the top 20 or so is in a clan, and then there are so few people in clans between 2.5 - 4 mil score. This causes tons of problems for people in this range as the upper level characters (typically ones with a million MPR over another player) farm down and destroy people and forces the ones with there to take more damage because there aren't enough people in clans.


Basically, this post serves 3 purposes.

1) Ranting. I'm sick of being farmed 2k-3k CP by people with 2 million more MPR than me. But that's a part of the clan life.

2) Telling you weirdos out there to get in clans. Just BEING in a clan ups your rewards by something like 5%. It wouldn't even be hard to stay positive if everyone would get in clans.

3) Well, and this is the discussion point, are clans right now feasible for the majority of players? Besides the management area (please, Jon, seriously, something needs to be done with the way clan membership/MPR allowance works), are CP easy enough to maintain? Are the rewards worth the extra effort and sacrifice needed? (15% at the best, but how much in rewards are you losing by keeping a list full of clannies?)



Lastly, if your MPR is above 3 mil and/or you haven't seen a positive CB in years, please don't say it's easy to get a list full of clan people without sacrificing rewards. It's not. Make an NCB if you don't believe me.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 21 2008 7:23 AM EST

I think DAS is having a big effect on what's going on, clan-wise.
Since there are about 3 DAS clans in the top 5, they have to look for other opponents to fight, most lower down on the scoreboard. But for lots of people, it's a great way to be protected, since they don't farm each other.
Just a thought.

Flatcap [East Milwaukee Devival] November 21 2008 9:04 AM EST

Seriously I get 3k in clan points a day and get farmed down to 300, it's crazy.

Usul [CHOAM] November 21 2008 10:29 AM EST

seriously if you invite more of sub 3mil people join the crazy farm party, would that even help? They will get farmed to pieces anyway. The reason why some people around that range doesn't join a clan could probably be they had been experiencing the same as what you are experiencing.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 21 2008 10:41 AM EST

even if they do get farmed to the point of being disbanded, it is worth their while to create a new clan for the hidden clan bonus. the game now is all about how much bonus you can get how quickly.

the current system is not ideal and i would love a change to make it easier for the "dead zone" people to stay in clans and positive.

one way around it though is to be in a clan with some non-n*b's while you make an ncb run. it does drag your clan down a bit, but should be well worth it in the long run.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 21 2008 10:45 AM EST

perhaps, just as those near the top are exempt from challenge bonuses due to the fact that they are required to fight down. maybe people at the bottom of the clan system should be exempt from negative clan scores?

it could be done where they just don't go below a certain amount or it could be a function of how much they are farmed or by how much stronger people where the more they get hit the less they lose?

Kefeck November 21 2008 11:09 AM EST

Das for the win.

Solare November 21 2008 11:10 AM EST

I'm sorry Godwolf; stop fighting people with a high score to boost your own score and you won't have that problem. As long as you have a score over 3.5 mil, you will be farmed. Most of the time I even see your score go over the 4 million mark. And you expect high level players not to farm you? I understand your concerns on the farm issue, as 3-4 people respec'd just to add me to their fight-list, but it is a part of the game (though it is somewhat harsh, admitingly).

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] November 21 2008 11:40 AM EST

he has to fight up as high as he can to optimize challenge bonus though. everyone does except for the 6/20 crowd.

Lochnivar November 21 2008 12:47 PM EST

analogy/metaphor/simile of the day...

Think of CB as a vast ocean.
When you are small you stay in the shallows, safe from large predators and battling for growth and survival with your equals.
There comes a time, however, that you must start to venture into deeper waters to find prey that will sustain your growth. Inevitably this well lead you to a point at which you attract the 'apex predators' in our little ecosystem.

There is no disadvantage to these predators from feeding indiscriminately. If it has Clan points it is food. (though custom dictates a reasonable score makes it more appealing)

Poetic license aside let's review some facts (and generalizations):
1) The top 20 PRs probably don't see any significant challenge bonus so fighting down for guaranteed wins and clan points is the best option.
2) For non-N*Bs the only way to make up ground is to get as good of a challenge bonus as possible, which leads to: fight up > raise score > get farmed > lower clan penalty > fight up even more > etc.
3) The Farmed to Oblivion scenario primarily exists in the 7/20 to low 6/20 range, the former denizens of the 'dead-zone' (8/20 gets 33% more BA than the big boys and likely not enough score to be farmed)

So suggestion:
Perhaps there should be a PR ratio at work with the clan points that are taken away (say double your PR hits you and you only lose half as many points as you would when hit by someone at your level).

Mayhap some small clan penalty for N*Bs (gut feeling, probably not wise and certainly flame worthy)

Anyway, thanks to idiot co-workers this took forever to actually type and I rather suspect I lost the plot along the way.
Bon chance mon amis!

{cb2}Dinh November 21 2008 1:01 PM EST

EVERYONE, get's farmed, regardless of how big or low your score is,and especially if you are in a clan...which it wouldnt be so bad if more people were in clan's,...I think there should be extra incentives for Clans as a whole, at the top...Maybe run rounds, every week or bi-weekly, where Top clans get so much extra exp., or money, or maybe extra clan bonus for the next round, and so forth...give people a reason to WANT to join clans...

So many people are quitting, and Jon needs to add some sort of gameplay mechanic to give people who have been here for years a reason to stay...
Before the start of DAS, I thought about quitting because it just wasnt fun logging on to burn BA, knowing that it's going to take me forever to get to 2 or 3 million MPR like the peeps at the top...
Since this game literally will never end, why not add in Rounds? Or Quest's or something to that effect like Ranger mentioned to me...The way we have tournaments, I could see rounds being done easily...

Also, can we get an option for a Clan Banner/picture??

Dinh

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] November 21 2008 1:12 PM EST

Thank you Godwolf, this is the reason I haven't been able to join a clan for the longest time. It sucks and I won't be able to join a clan until something is tweaked about clans.

Besides, I've made many many posts about this topic previously.

Sickone November 21 2008 1:12 PM EST

People DON'T get in clans because it costs CB$ to join/create one, and you need to be and STAY active or else you HURT the clan you're in, which can lead to either the clan kicking you out to prevent disbanding (or at least enable them to gain some bonus), or the clan disbanding altogether due to negative scores.

If you want people to stick to clans, you'd have to give them no reasons to stay out of them, and all the reasons to stay in.
In other words, no direct negatives, and positives directly proportional to effort/success.
____

A PROPOSAL THAT WOULD DO THIS

There should be no negative clan points and no clan disbanding.
The only difference should be in AMOUNT of clan points you get for fighting, and the range should be tweaked : from 1 to 3 points for non-clan targets one one hand, and from 3 to 12 points for clan targets.

1 point - minimum gains for non-clan
2 points - fighting non-clan target with CB between +5% and +75%
3 points - fighting non-clan target with CB between 75% and 100%

3 points - minimum gains for clan target (low CB, not a clan earning bonus)
4 points - minimum gains for clan target in a clan earning bonus
[...]
9 points - max gains for clan target in a non-bonus earning clan
[...]
12 points - max gains for clan target in clan earning points


Everything else would remain the same.
No clan is ever disbanded, and having somebody in your clan never directly drags you down, it can only improve your score (but it can give the opportunity for the enemy to score a bit higher).

Sickone November 21 2008 1:17 PM EST

Number of points you will earn should also be listed in the combat list >:)

C(9) Somename (Score_x)
(3) Other_name (Score_y)
C(6) Yet_another_name (Score_z)

etc

Sickone November 21 2008 1:21 PM EST

Damn you no edits *shakes fist*

I was in a top clan for most of my NCB (clan was made out of mostly NCBs too), we were earning between 8% at worst up, around +12% on average, and we had the top spot a couple of times too.
It was actually troublesome to get POSITIVE clan point balances, and it all hinged on us being many.
The clan AUTO-DISBANDED one day when more than half of the members took a couple of days off, don't recall the exact reason why... but it was enough to dip us so far into the negatives that the week ended up far below disbanding level.

three4thsforsaken November 21 2008 4:41 PM EST

that sounds pretty cool. though it'll be interesting if no one had negatives :P

QBJohnnywas November 21 2008 5:18 PM EST

I hate the auto disband feature of clans. What does it serve to have a clan self destruct if you don't get enough points? Especially when there are dead clans just sitting there for ages after their members leave, not getting attacked, hence not going negative and getting disbanded.

Take that away. Farming still puts you into negative, but means that you can keep a clan running if you're not a fierce fighting team or if you're being farmed too much.

Sickone November 21 2008 5:58 PM EST

Fear of "the heavily exploited clan", I guess... sort of ?
Although I don't see what's the big deal about it, you already get less points for fighting them anyway since they're not earning bonuses.

Even if we can't all agree on how exactly clan points/bonuses/whatever should be handled, I believe it's a generalized feeling that clan-auto-disbands should go the way of the dodo bird ASAP.

Tyriel [123456789] November 21 2008 6:53 PM EST

I have not been in a clan over the past while for 2 reasons:

Being busy meant getting negative CPs. Being in school, and sometimes not being able to burn BA before and after, means I can easily miss quite a bit of BA from that alone. Having a list composed of clan-only people makes it take longer to burn BA, and sometimes I just don't have the time if I'm going out for supper, or woke up late, etc.

That, and it's almost impossible to run a specialized strategy in a clan and get positive CPs without buying BA, at least from my experience. You have to choose between having a specialized strat and either bringing down a clan (and hopefully not being kicked/disbanding it) or lowering your CB% to get higher CPs, or staying out of a clan and fighting as high as you possibly can. Either that, or you go into a clan with a slightly more generalized strategy.

I just created a new clan, so I'll see how it goes, but somehow I don't think a single minion with a large DM and a MsK will do very well in a clan. :)
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