Changemonth right around the corner. (in General)

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] November 26 2008 2:30 PM EST

Changemonth is right around the corner and here are just a few idea's I would like to see..
1) Forgers need some sort of a boost, weather it is boost the rates that they grow, or cut costs of forge fees. They need something.
2) In chat everyone is saying oh SG is so overpowered, I dont totally agree with that. Seeing how SG only hits once per round and doesnt even start hitting till melee.
3)A boost too some of the ED spells, like Giant strength, and Haste =). Make them useable again.
4)A small boost to DM against Ablative shield, i think is kind of needed. Sure some would say The MoD nerfed ablative shield. HAHA. What a joke, seeing how most battles nowadays are finished in range, unless your an SG or CoC team.
5) Get rid of decay its retarded. lol.
6)Get the mentoring program up again. I'm pretty sure without my mentor Slaya back in the day i would of left after the first day.
7) New admins and QB's.
8) Get us out of mageblender =).

This is just my opinion and it is subject to fault.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 26 2008 2:32 PM EST

Make tanks more powerful than mages, I'll be happy.

Lord Bob November 26 2008 2:44 PM EST

1.) I agree, forgers need a slight boost.
2.) Make low AC a counter to SG. If the spell hits harder vs. big armor, it should land softer vs. low armor.
3.) I think GS and Haste are fine as they are, and for me to say that they don't need a boost is really something.
4.) The terms "boost" and "DM" should never appear in the same sentence unless they are separated by "RoS" and "against."
5.) Boost the Elven Hauberk. Un-nerf the Mage Shield.
6.) Slight ranged damage boost for all except ELB and Hal. Certainly don't un-nerf ranged damage to the old ridiculous levels.
7.) I've heard a lot of complaints about Fireball lately, so I wouldn't complain at a very minor boost for that spell if it's as weak as many claim.

three4thsforsaken November 26 2008 2:50 PM EST

"4)A small boost to DM against Ablative shield, i think is kind of needed. Sure some would say The MoD nerfed ablative shield"

wait what? Is there any reasoning behind this? Is dealing 80%-105% (because of AS increased effectiveness) of your effect in damage BEFORE the battle starts that isn't affected my AC, AMF, or GA (assuming they have only one minion training AS). It's only more efficient than any DD out there and you want more?

Also note that DM being a EO doesn't need incredible exp concentration. You can train a few smaller minion to get a big effect, but you can't do the same with AS or you'll be very vulnerable.

There is no evidence that AS is overpowered, it doesn't let people attack any higher than normal, it has obvious weakness, it forces even HP distribution which waste HP on enchanters (whom have no AC often).

The list goes on...

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] November 26 2008 2:51 PM EST

This is just my opinion and it is subject to fault.


Nehemiah November 26 2008 2:59 PM EST

some rare item drops would be nice, from combat, maybe a treasure chest now and then.

have some npc characters maybe every 50k mpr that we can battle, that have different loot tables and such, like at the 100k range you have 4 npc teams using different setups that have different loot tables. then you get a new set at 150k, 200k, 250k, 900k and so on, difficutly varies depending on the items they drop! could be new items, not the same stuff as in the auction or supporter stuff.

could also tie in some quests and such with the npc generated battles.

maybe put in some more quests like we had in the start of the game, check out kingdom of loathing for some inspiration maybe?

God Bless you!

Jesus Loves you!

three4thsforsaken November 26 2008 3:03 PM EST

yeah, that makes it right to just post things off no grounds or evidence. By doing that you'll only trigger mindless debate in order to sway you.

If we want Jon to change things, we need to give good grounds to do so. Having game dynamics change off the whim of a player will not benefit anyone.

"5) Get rid of decay its retarded. lol. "

C'mon people! I'm losing faith in the community...

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 26 2008 3:05 PM EST

Uh, Nehemiah, that would pretty much screw up the whole concept of CB.
And apperantly, no one argued with me when I said tanks need to be better than mages.

winner winner November 26 2008 3:08 PM EST

I think tanks do need a little boost.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] November 26 2008 3:08 PM EST

IMO. Decay doesnt accomplish anything. Accept force you to train a base anti-magic field.

And my reasoning behind, up DM against ablative shield. To be perfectly honest is to nerf the most boring strat in the game, the single minion junctioned familiar. =).

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] November 26 2008 3:11 PM EST

Sorry for double post..

I like what nehemiah said to an extent, i think randomn item droppings would be sweet, and give you the same thrill camping did. I just dont want it to mess things up to much.

Lord Bob November 26 2008 3:12 PM EST

"some rare item drops would be nice, from combat, maybe a treasure chest now and then."

I'm sure that would have drastic consequences for the economy.

Rawr November 26 2008 3:50 PM EST

- Who cares if Single Minion familiar boring, don't do it? It doesn't even seem that common yet. And its a very viable combo, and I'm wishing I knew to do that before I went on a hiring minion spree...

- Shouldn't mages be equal to tanks? If tanks were better, then everyone would roll tanks... Kind of obvious isn't it?

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 26 2008 3:55 PM EST

Tanks should be more powerful than mages; for the simple reason that you have to invest massive amounts of NW in them. So, they should be more powerful.

Lord Bob November 26 2008 4:00 PM EST

I agree with Brawlfox.

Rawr November 26 2008 4:02 PM EST

A big melee team would probably beat me since most of my damage is from my angels, there just aren't that many at my level. Look at the number one character in the game. Isn't he a tank?

three4thsforsaken November 26 2008 4:06 PM EST

"IMO. Decay doesn't accomplish anything. Accept force you to train a base anti-magic field. "

Alrighty, that's a much better than "its retarded. lol." Although "useless" is hardly a good reason to get rid of spell, see daggers. See tower shields.

But it's not useless, btw. It's a huge counter against single minion teams. It forces them to waste their only EO slot with AMF or else they'll lose half their health from a base decay. Not too shabby eh?

"And my reasoning behind, up DM against ablative shield. To be perfectly honest is to nerf the most boring strat in the game, the single minion junctioned familiar. =)."

I saw that coming. Now I ask, do we nerf things because they are powerful or because they are boring? If we nerf things because they are boring, we should probably nerf RoS, it's too simple a tattoo, it gives only a boost to EDs and DM protection.

My point is that boring is subjective, and has nothing to do with being OP or not.

Also worth noting is that AS is used on few single minion teams. To nerf AS to nerf the very many (/sarcastic) single minion familiar teams would also nerf all the multi minion teams. Kinda short sighted there.

Finally, I would like to point out that single minion are not OP. They are a good strategy for sure, but most teams are anything but OP.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 26 2008 4:07 PM EST

Freed and AA. That's it. The rest of the top is mages, or RBF teams.

Rawr November 26 2008 4:11 PM EST

The Jeckel Brothers is definitely a tank set up... in the top 10...
Mikel's King of Pain is neither Tank or Mage in the top 5...
From what I've read in forums (it's how I spend my time >.<) Melee tank teams are in the rising, just give it time.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 26 2008 4:12 PM EST

Alas, I forgot about Hatch. ;P
Mikel is an RBF setup...
But the point is, it's still not truly viable against mages.

Rawr November 26 2008 5:02 PM EST

Not to mention, what if people don't want to be tanks? I like killing people by merely "touching" them.

Dark Dreky November 26 2008 5:20 PM EST

1.) I'd like to see the AoF bonus NOT junction to familiars. Familiars don't train skills (except maybe JFK), right?

2.) I think SG needs a slight nerf. I like the idea of it doing less damage to low-AC minions.

3.) Reduce effect of AS. NOT increase effectiveness of DM (ever). Damage was nerfed across the board, and AS remained constant, making it much more powerful.

Lord Bob November 26 2008 5:30 PM EST

Dreky, damage was nerfed to get us into the later rounds. That purpose would be defeated if we reduced HP too, no?

Solare November 26 2008 5:32 PM EST

Tanks don't need a boost. Some of the best characters are tanks. Mages don't need a boost. Most spells work as they should; with the exception to FB which serves no purpose, and some would argue that SG is OP.
I'd have to say the only thing that seems OP to me are ED's (no not GS or Haste). This argument has already been presented before, so theres no need to argue for or against it any longer. However, there is no way to counter RoS boosting ED's (some would argue MoD for AS..). A DM of ridiculous level would be required to get rid of a boosted ED.
I don't think a boost to DM is the right option, however. I think toning down GA and AS is what needs to happen.
It's apparent, that after the damage nerf, a small GA is sufficient in serving its purpose, and AS given HP (and HP alike) is far too difficult to deal with if trained at ridiculous levels. When you consider the RoS, then these ED's become near-impossible to deal with. One may also consider XP concentration into one of these spells, then backing it up with an EF... Need I continue?

P.S.: Most of the top players at the moment use one of these spells to their advantage, usually backed by IF or EF, or protected by RoS or RoBF.

Zaekyr November 26 2008 5:44 PM EST

I think the only problem with tanks atm is the strength of GA.I don't mind it's function as it is,I just think it returns too much compared to it's level.I have been seeing quite a few teams switching a ROS from an AS minion to a GA minion to get massive backlash from any damage types.It will be the new OP in the near future at this rate and everyone might as well start switching to big GA or big DM now because nothing else will matter shortly.

I think there are 2 possibilities to fix this.

Perhaps reduce GA to only return a percentage of damage inflicted.Supposedly AC reduces it but from what I have observed you need at least 200+ AC to get a reasonable reduction for a typical damage dealer.

Better yet is the more logical and fair approach to categorically change GA as an EO since it acts more like an EO in theory and practice than an ED.In this way teams that wish to use high GA can do so as a strat and others switching on the fly won't be able to use base GA with ROS for amplified effect.

Before you start flaming look at our recent changes.The reduction of all types of damage without a concurrent adjustment to GA which in effect is another form of damage will make this game very boring very quickly since the ability to outdamage someones GA is much more unlikely.Using ROS on GA instead of AS gives a better return on experience invested.You could mistakenly assume that AS would also need adjustment but remember that the number of combat rounds also increased so outcomes can still be determined.And finally,forget the other mistaken assumption that the MOD is the only counter to big AS.Big DM and more importantly decay are also viable counters.The only really effective counter to GA is DM.And GA effectivness has increased so everyone will need to train either DM or GA.Let's not change rock,paper,scissors to red paper,blue paper.

Unappreciated Misnomer November 26 2008 6:02 PM EST

Supporter and Admin

A member of Carnage Blender since November 3, 2000.
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Last login at Nov 19.

i dont think he is too worried

AdminQBVerifex [Serenity In Chaos] November 26 2008 6:04 PM EST

More elements of chance in deciding whether we win or lose battles. I enjoy the tactics, but battles are largely non-random as they currently stand. Also some temporary boost to chances to win battles would be nice, potion store, blah blah (mentioned many times before). Also camping, yeah I enjoyed that. :)

Rawr November 26 2008 6:30 PM EST

I deal very little damage on my own as an AS/GA user, so any SG user (familiar or trained) pretty much beats me since AMF will do almost nothing and GA is minimalized due to huge damage. Have large single target damage versus GA... it seems to work against me. And if I switch my RoS to my GA... then I'm losing roughly 1/3 of my hp. I don't want to do that, do I?

Wizard'sFirstRule November 26 2008 7:19 PM EST

has our bus factor of 1 finally caught up?

AdminTal Destra [C and S Forgery Lmtd.] November 26 2008 8:48 PM EST

"7.) I've heard a lot of complaints about Fireball lately, so I wouldn't complain at a very minor boost for that spell if it's as weak as many claim."

yeah lets boost FB so more damage gets done to our own minions

Zaekyr November 26 2008 10:28 PM EST

Try it on the GA minion Rawr.If you have more hp than your targets you will win everytime.Very close to 100% damage return.

Rawr November 27 2008 12:07 AM EST


It is impossible to get 100% damage return. Read the Wiki. 60% is the max.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 27 2008 3:40 AM EST

"I agree with Brawlfox."

I couldn't disagree more.

They should be balanced with each other, otherwise there's no reason to play anything but a Tank.

Flavour differencies (like XP versus NW, and multiple hits versus auto one hit) only.

iBananco [Blue Army] November 27 2008 4:13 AM EST

If tanks and mages were perfectly balanced, why would anybody play a tank when they could go mage and spend all that extra cash on walls, or even simply selling for USD?

Rawr November 27 2008 5:07 AM EST

But they aren't tanks are stronger right now... right?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] November 27 2008 5:38 AM EST

"If tanks and mages were perfectly balanced, why would anybody play a tank when they could go mage and spend all that extra cash on walls, or even simply selling for USD?"

Becuase there's only so much you can spend on armour due to its upgrade curve, and who cares about selling out for USD when talking about game balance?

Flavour differencies. Multiple hits, Vampric Aura, what Tanks have to face, verus auto hit once, AMF and what Mages have to face.

Strategy and Flavour, not one dominating the other.

QBJohnnywas November 27 2008 5:45 AM EST

Back to Tank. And proud!

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] November 27 2008 9:45 AM EST

simple reason to go tank, flexibility...

I can't remember a time in CB where tanks had so many different option, it's amazing what you can do with a little naturally trained STR and some armor.

Cube November 27 2008 10:57 AM EST

I've recently wanted to add a small tank at least, but I've held back because of Exbows.

JS brings up a good point though.. lets put it in the extremes, you could have a tank with a 500 mil NW weapon (I'm not sure what the actual number is for comparison) OR enough armor to become immune to tank damage, which are you going to choose?

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] November 27 2008 11:35 AM EST

Elven Hauberk, imo, must be boosted somehow. Not tremendously, but a little. I've been using one for a while, and right now I feel that other armor options are simply superior. (And tattoos are even more.)

3 ways to go about this.

1:Effect now decays by 25% instead of 50.
2:Each point adds 1.5% resistance instead of 1% (With the current decays this is not much.)
3:Effect decays ONLY on hits by magic, not based on the number of rounds.

All 3 ways are pretty similar, it's a matter of tweaking. But any of them would be fair.

three4thsforsaken November 27 2008 12:04 PM EST

I really like the 3rd idea

Cube November 27 2008 12:59 PM EST

I too like the 3rd idea for the EH, but what's to stop people from training base FBs on every minion to ruin it in a few rounds?

three4thsforsaken November 27 2008 1:07 PM EST

that's true

but the use of small things to force EH to decay faster is unavoidable. It's like in the past how melee people would put on a ranged weapon so EH would decay in ranged rounds. I think the best we can do to counter this is to only allow it to decay once per round.

Though there is a part of me that wonders if effective EHs are what we really need right now. It would sure be nice against SG.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] November 27 2008 1:29 PM EST

I don't know if we ''need'' effective EH's...but it sure is somewhat of a shame that most choices are better than it, because it sucks. I'm really not advocating a new OP item here. A slight buff is all I'd like to see. Slight.

Also, it IS true that base FB's would wreck my idea, as was said. Now, without putting numbers here...Could the EH resistance Decay only on hits made by spells at a level higher than the EH's networth? Maybe the upgrade curve would have to be changed for this to work...?

Rawr November 28 2008 12:31 AM EST

Why does EH need to decay? Why not make it a fixed percent but lower it a bunch? Wouldn't it still be the most effective anti-magic chest piece?
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002b7j">Changemonth right around the corner.</a>