He hits twice! Twice! (in General)


Lord Bob January 31 2009 2:28 PM EST

When I fight Trachal DelArmgo, an odd thing happens. With his Enforcer's Crossbow, he hits each of my minions once per round, except in round four (round five with the HoC) he is able to hit my main tank minion with the MOST Dexterity on the team twice. When this happens, and only when this happens, it causes a stalemate. Unfortunately it happens kind of regularly. Why is he able to gain double hits on a quicker opponent, when my much slower enchanters are taking only single hits. And why is it only round four that this takes place, especially after I've pumped him full of a few Axbow rounds which should make him less accurate?

Now, the first minion (Defensive Shield) has an excuse, because of the DBs, but the other two slower minions should be the ones hit twice, not the faster tank. Am I right?

Example below:

Trachals Shade shot Lord Bob [48586]
Lord Bob looks weaker!
 
Lord Bob hit Kano-san [30512]
Kano-san looks clumsier!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [30512]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 shot Trachals Shade [21170]
Trachals Shade looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [21170]
Trachals Shade shot Defensive Shield [65194]
Defensive Shield looks weaker!
 
Lord Bob shot Trachals Shade [18899]
Trachals Shade looks clumsier!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [18899]
Lord Bob shot Trachals Shade [30220]
Trachals Shade looks clumsier!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [30220]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 shot Trachals Shade [24124]
Trachals Shade looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [24124]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Trachals Shade [29318]
Trachals Shade looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [29318]
Trachals Shade shot A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 [48779]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 looks weaker!
 
Lord Bob hit Kano-san [37118]
Kano-san looks clumsier!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [37118]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Trachals Shade [18883]
Trachals Shade looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [18883]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Trachals Shade [17934]
Trachals Shade looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [17934]
Trachals Shade hit Offensive Shield [30912]
Offensive Shield looks weaker!
 
Lord Bob hit Kano-san [37804]
Kano-san looks clumsier!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [37804]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Kano-san [25759]
Kano-san looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [25759]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Kano-san [21495]
Kano-san looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [21495]
Trachals Shade hit Lord Bob [29657]
Lord Bob looks weaker!
Trachals Shade hit Lord Bob [28307]
Lord Bob looks weaker!
 
Lord Bob shot Trachals Shade [8766]
Trachals Shade looks clumsier!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [8766]
Lord Bob shot Trachals Shade [8677]
Trachals Shade looks clumsier!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [8677]
Lord Bob shot Trachals Shade [9846]
Trachals Shade looks clumsier!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [9846]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Trachals Shade [19249]
Trachals Shade looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [19249]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Trachals Shade [15369]
Trachals Shade looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [15369]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Trachals Shade [14757]
Trachals Shade looks weaker!
Shades of Mist absorbs damage [14757]
Trachals Shade overshot Defensive Shield
 

lostling January 31 2009 2:35 PM EST

theres a reason its a % to hit

Lord Bob January 31 2009 2:39 PM EST

So why is there a much greater chance that the dual hit strikes the guy who should be significantly harder to hit?

Now I did just get a battle where A Devil Familiar was hit with a double, which is perfectly reasonable. However, my tank got hit twice as well again, and my much slower Offensive Shield escaped again.

Lord Bob January 31 2009 2:39 PM EST

Just happened again.

QBRanger January 31 2009 2:40 PM EST

There are penalties to hit in the earlier missile rounds. By round 5, there is less of a penalty.

Perhaps that is it.

On a side note, the strength drain of the exbow is ungodly powerful.

Lord Bob January 31 2009 2:44 PM EST

That's probably what I'm missing then.

"On a side note, the strength drain of the exbow is ungodly powerful."

Very much so. This has needed a fix for quite some time. I say this even though I use one.

Cube January 31 2009 4:41 PM EST

How big is his EC compared to your Haste?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] January 31 2009 4:42 PM EST

*cough* dbs *cough*

LittleLauren January 31 2009 4:44 PM EST

This is interesting, your tank doesn't attack me in the first round of melee.


Melee Combat
Defensive Shield burns from the flames surrounding Shard (595561)
Defensive Shield grazed Shard [2130]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 shot Shard [63345]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Shard [64076]

Defensive Shield burns from the flames surrounding Shard (537185)
Defensive Shield grazed Shard [1988]
Lord Bob tapped Shard [178837]
Lord Bob draws strength from his weapon! [35767]

Defensive Shield burns from the flames surrounding Shard (512802)
Defensive Shield grazed Shard [2759]
Lord Bob tapped Shard [187048]
Lord Bob draws strength from his weapon! [37409]
Lord Bob tapped Shard [214128]
Lord Bob draws strength from his weapon! [42825]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 hit Shard [62074]
R.I.P. Defensive Shield

Lord Bob burns from the flames surrounding Shard (355772)
Lord Bob bruised Shard [158151]
Lord Bob draws strength from his weapon! [31630]
Lord Bob pounded Shard [202290]
Lord Bob draws strength from his weapon! [40458]

Lord Bob burns from the flames surrounding Shard (405101)
Lord Bob crunched Shard [180650]
Lord Bob draws strength from his weapon! [36130]
Lord Bob pounded Shard [230933]
Lord Bob draws strength from his weapon! [46186]
A Devil Familiar lvl 9999 shot Shard [51123]

QBRanger January 31 2009 4:45 PM EST

*cough* ENC *cough*

Almost impossible for a tank to have a weapon and armors and DBs all high enough now.

QBRanger January 31 2009 5:06 PM EST

Two handed melee weapons do not attack the first round of melee when used with a missile weapon.

Lord Bob January 31 2009 5:17 PM EST

"How big is his EC compared to your Haste?"

Very small. Regardless, if this was part of the equation, the slower minions still wouldn't be getting hit less than the fast guy, right?

"*cough* dbs *cough*"

Already taken into account on the ONE minion that wears it. Hence this sentence: "Now, the first minion (Defensive Shield) has an excuse, because of the DBs, but the other two slower minions should be the ones hit twice, not the faster tank."

The issue here isn't "I'm getting hit twice," it's that slower minions are getting hit less than faster minions. Less Dex == more lowercase-e evasion. The DB guy is an exception, for obvious reasons.

"This is interesting, your tank doesn't attack me in the first round of melee."

I have a ranged and melee weapon on that minion. As Ranger pointed out, that part is normal.

AdminG Beee January 31 2009 5:49 PM EST

Lord Bob January 31 2009 6:00 PM EST

Or you could post something useful...

QBsutekh137 January 31 2009 6:03 PM EST

Come on, that was funny... He's just trying to help the frog in Novice's throat!

Godpanda January 31 2009 6:12 PM EST

I'm guessing it's what Ranger said. Simply put, in the round of ranged before melee, your PTH is max. For that reason, my Halidon would quat shot in every round, but occasionally in the last round he'd 5 shot.


On a side note, yes, exbows/axbows are ridiculously over powered right now. One item should not equal a complete counter.

Lord Bob January 31 2009 6:12 PM EST

Oh, I thought he was implying something else. Sorry G Beee.

QBRanger January 31 2009 6:17 PM EST

But if anyone thinks exbows will be changed, just do a search of the past threads of this exact subject.

And see who believes they are in no way out of line with the game. And far from overpowered.

Then you will have your answer as to why nothing was or ever will be changed.

Lord Bob January 31 2009 6:28 PM EST

Well, it did take forever for Evasion to get fixed. But it was, and it's now down to acceptable levels.

While I was among the most vocal critics back in the days of Tank-Hater Blender, I'll be the first to admit that things are better now by tons. And I recognize that Jon has other priorities in life right now other than the game, so this time I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and be patient waiting for a fix.

Godpanda January 31 2009 6:29 PM EST

Exbows and axbows were never balanced after the ranged round change. There are now more rounds and they still drain basically the same amount per round. It just needs to be lowered back to where it was (net effect wise). A 20-25% drop per hit would be about right, I would think.

Lord Bob January 31 2009 6:37 PM EST

Actually, they were never changed after the X damage modifier switch. That was the main problem.

My solution isn't a flat percentage reduction. I think Crossbows should:
A.) take a flat percentage off the stat. Say 1/33. That's a bit over 30,000 per million.
B.) take a constant amount per X. I say 20.

A x1000 Crossbow vs. a 1,000,000 stat opponent would lose just over 50000 of that stat per hit. That seems balanced to me. The biggest Exbow in the game would drain 110,000 per hit. Much better than taking all of it in one hit.

Godpanda February 2 2009 10:56 AM EST

Lol @ Lord Bob.

Yeah, it's WAY better if you're the tank. The idea is to heavily reduce the damage. Not to make the tank garbage.

But, seriously? You think the largest exbow in the game should reduce ST by a little over 600k? OHNOEZ. They'd laugh at you.

QBRanger February 2 2009 11:19 AM EST

But is it fair that the largest exbow in the game completely neutralizes a tank in 1 hit.

Even after EC reduces the shooting tanks strength to below 0?

C'mon now, let us be fair for both parties in this debate.

And spare me the DB threads. With ENC in the game, high enough level DBs are almost impossible to have.

I know, I tried it with Koy and failed horribly.

SuperHD February 2 2009 11:21 AM EST

assasin crossbow and enforcer crossbow are just perfect like they are
even if i will sometime lose 5 mil strength or dexterity with only one hit...

Lord Bob February 2 2009 12:07 PM EST

"Lol @ Lord Bob."

You can laugh all you want. To me the only thing that's laughable is the ability to completely reduce a tank's offensive power in a single strike.

"But, seriously? You think the largest exbow in the game should reduce ST by a little over 600k?"

Assuming a single hit on all five rounds of ranged combat, we're talking 550,000 points of drainage here. More if you are getting double hits. More if you throw in the HoC. Vs. that 1,000,000 st/dx opponent, we're talking a possible total of ~990,000 drain here after ranged. Looks like a fair deal.

Now what I tossed out were just sample numbers. The constant drain per X could be raised if this is still too low. And let's not forget that the current Crossbows have a Strength based drain attached as well, that I left out. We could keep the X constant at 20 and throw that in, just at reduced levels.

QBRanger February 2 2009 12:16 PM EST

Agreed,

It should reduce damage, not elimate all potential to do any.

BluBBen February 2 2009 12:35 PM EST

I'm a current Exbow user and I to think that the Exbow is overpowered.

Not at low levels but the "goodness" increase of the Exbow is linear with the money put into it.
As other weapons don't get 100% more damage when investing 100% more NW into it. The Exbow _will_ get 100% better as it will so much easier draw all ST of the target.
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