The DM/AS Quandary (in General)

Lochnivar March 1 2009 2:06 PM EST

Ok, so currently almost half of my xp is spent on AS. This is spilt between 2 minions (all my minions are pretty even in size).

The following analysis is based on minions of approximately equal experience (no late hires or RoEing).

Now from what we know AS does 'better' with 4 minions than with 2 (145% effectiveness vs 100% effectiveness).
This, however, is muddied considerably by the addition of DM.

For example:
My two minions currently cast AS for 13638008 (all minions combined, no RoS or AoF boost).
If I were to have a 2 minion set up with one of them casting AS (again, half the team xp) I would get AS for 9405522 total HP.

Now consider a DM of 3 mil casting against these two strats:
4 Minion: (Total AS/1.45 - 2DM) * 1.45 = 4938007 total HP
2 Minion (Total AS - DM) = 6405522 total HP

At 3mil + MPR a DM of 3mil is not uncommon so this is hardly an unrealistic example. Also, with DM stacking linearly 3mil is pretty easy to achieve on many different strats.

Ignoring the counter arguments about kill slots and enchantment slots it seems that you need to have over 4 times the expected opposition DM levels in order to realize any benefit from the 145% AS bonus for 4 minions vs 2 minions.

Thus the catch, AS is better with more minions, but DM is much better with more casters.

QBRanger March 1 2009 2:13 PM EST

You can fight AMF casters and your problems would be solved.

But in reality I have always had a problem with DM stacking against each ED spell. Quite unfair, but it is what it is.

Therefore the latest new strategy is to grow a single minion familiar until a high MPR then hire more minions. And then convert that first minion to a huge AS caster hopefully to diminish the effects of DM.

iBananco [Blue Army] March 1 2009 2:34 PM EST

Now include the RoS in the mix.

QBRanger March 1 2009 2:46 PM EST

The ROS, IMO, is a very poor tattoo choice.

In of itself it gives no offensive power unless almost all the other tattoos.

And it is nearly useless vs most AMF users.

And while it gives a boost to AS (almost all use it on an AS minion), the extra HP is minimal compared to the benefits of using an offensive minded tattoo.

And I include the overpowered RBF in the offensive type tattoos. However this tattoo is probably even better give the special type of damage it does AND the magic reduction it gives.

But the ROS has one benefit, being able to use DM and AMF. However, IMO again, the DM protection is woefully low.

Solare March 1 2009 2:55 PM EST

Stacking DM means xp sacrificed only to fight ED. This means no AMF or EC to deal with physical or magic damage, no protection against decay, and being only useful against non-RoS ED dependent users.

Its really not all that great and certainly not broken.

Magic is weak to high AMF, MgS, RoBF, GA; physical is weak to high EC, GA, xbows; and so, it follows that ED must have some weakness, that being stacked DM. Seems balanced to me...

Lochnivar March 1 2009 3:03 PM EST

Just a couple of points:
1) I am not saying DM is overpowered.
2) I didn't include and RoS because it complicates matters considerably.
3) the top 10 RoSs are at least as impressive as the top 10 RoBFs so they must be doing something right.
4) I'm not looking for strat pointers here, just number crunching. Given my MPR and PR my score is doing just fine at the moment.

TheHatchetman March 1 2009 6:50 PM EST

RoS is actually much better than it once was, and is definitely viable and a *great* choice for many mage teams. The reason many mage teams tend to lean away from it is because the mage on the team is a familiar, that many people like due to it's ability to ignore the worry of XP dilution. Now while a minion can grow faster than a familiar over time, the massive head start given by the AoF, and the ability to "buy XP" via a tat insta have greatly shadowed this for the time being.

The only place where the non-offensiveness comes into play negatively is in the world of top-level tanks, where you *need* an alternative damage source of some sort. That is, unless either a)you don't mind losing to a 25m nw weapon weilded by someone half your MPR or b) You use DBs and either have over 3/4 of your team's XP into your tank so that your encumbrance will allow both a large enough DB to make sure that enemy Exbows weren't even allowed a single strike and still have a weapon large enough to be able to stand a chance at comparing to the damage you could do by simply turning your ST/DX into SG and calling it a day.

But back on topic, DM stacking vs. ED stacking is the reason I've never liked relying on EDs (And another reason I don't like new-style SS! :P). Sut was able to point out how well this works shortly after I began playing CB when he hired those DM minions and forced many within the top ranks to abandon EDs all-together. Though I guess that is the tradeoff to be had, seeing as EDs are beneficial in every battle (even if they aren't necessary for the win, I look at ending a fight with 3m HP as better than ending with 300k :P), whereas DM is only beneficial against EDs... Generality (ED) has it's benefits, but generally holds great weakness to specicality (Totally just made that word up).

TheHatchetman March 1 2009 6:51 PM EST


Damn... misspelled my own made up word... That's just horrible
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