Score Drop? (in General)


Solare March 14 2009 12:14 PM EDT

What exactly is the deal with everyone's score suddenly dropping 0.5-2 million? I have some ideas, but I figured it would be a topic worth discussing...

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 14 2009 12:16 PM EDT

lack of junction for the most part.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 14 2009 12:16 PM EDT

No more score added by training?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 14 2009 12:17 PM EDT

the dramatic drop in my score occured in conjunction with the junction removal rather than the training issue which had a minor impact. your mileage may vary.

Andy March 14 2009 12:20 PM EDT

The untrain of Junction decreased the score of a lot of people! Just bare/bear (however you spell it) with it and it'll hitch up again soon.. Hopefully...

Fatil1ty March 14 2009 12:22 PM EDT

I disagree dude. I used to fight you at a great bonus and now it's not even worth fighting you anymore almost. I have noticed scores have dropped majorly in the 4.5M-5.5M range and it's REALLY hurting my CB

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] March 14 2009 12:22 PM EDT

Junction and training, I think mostly training though, b/c I noticed a trend before the removal of Junction. I foresee this getting worse and not better if Jon doesn't do something.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 14 2009 12:22 PM EDT

But that would be because of the score drop caused by the unlearn not being replaced when retraining...

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 14 2009 12:24 PM EDT

Sickone has been draining a bit downwards by losing to low chars and double tapping some higher ones.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 14 2009 12:25 PM EDT

"But that would be because of the score drop caused by the unlearn not being replaced when retraining..."

that may have played a part, but in my opinion it is more greatly affected by people not being able to fight their normal list until they get the amulet to replace the skill.

since i got my amulet my score is climbing but will climb more when everyone who needs them has their amulets and can fight their normal opponents once again.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 14 2009 12:29 PM EDT

Maybe it will go up for some once they get an amulet but the score lost by unlearning is gone there is no way to get the portion of it which was above PR back.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 14 2009 12:33 PM EDT

I think this forced unlearn nicely highlights the problem with the current score drop upon unlearning system. I do accept the system was implemented to combat a real issue, I don't know what I would suggest to improve things.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 14 2009 12:37 PM EDT

as i stated in the other thread, we now suspect that the cap applies to all training as well as retraining. if you placed an if then statement in the training formula that only applies the cap if the amount trained is greater than one percent of total mpr, that would make it to where it did not apply to normal training or small retrains, but only to major retrains.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 14 2009 12:38 PM EDT

total xp rather than total mpr, sorry about that.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 14 2009 12:41 PM EDT

I think that could be abused in the old way. Unlearn, fight someone you can still beat then do all the retraining in tiny steps. Pretty sad but still could be done?

AdminShade March 14 2009 12:44 PM EDT

I think both the disappearance of Junction as a skill and the score retrain bug fix have had quite large parts in this score drop.


Before I had lots of people in the 75% bonus region, now they have only 25%. :(

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 14 2009 12:46 PM EDT

i think most of the ones that did it were accidental. it could still be exploited, but only purposefully. we have resets for that kind of exploitation, no?

it is not perfect but it would be better than the current system i would think.

i think sickone also had some other ideas in the other thread. they all seemed to be exploitable as well though. jon's current fix isn't exploitable at all so i doubt it will be changed unless we can come up with a solid fix that requires no admin involvement.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 14 2009 12:58 PM EDT

after thinking about it further, the if then statement could look at untrained xp as compared to total xp and if that is above the 1% level then no score would be created.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] March 14 2009 1:01 PM EDT

I still think the cap should be doubled. Theoretically, if someone is being successful, they should have a score around twice their PR, shouldn't they? It only makes sense that a total untrain and retrain would bring them back to very close to their original score. And I think people's score going up by 3k points every time they train 40k XP at the end of a BA burn would make challenge bonuses go up very slightly all across the board, which is desired.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 14 2009 1:06 PM EDT

at the top though, score is rarely twice the pr naturally. that leaves room for exploitation. it would cost some xp to do it. i think jon may want more than an exploitable system with a natural deterrent or admin intervention.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 14 2009 2:52 PM EDT

"after thinking about it further, the if then statement could look at untrained xp as compared to total xp and if that is above the 1% level then no score would be created"

This could work. Modify it to no score above PR would be created though.

Just thought of possible exploit with the current system, using weapons above WA to boost PR.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 14 2009 2:58 PM EDT

yep, that is what i meant. the if then is the qualifier for the current cap of no score above pr.

Sickone March 14 2009 4:00 PM EDT

I've said pretty much everything I could say in the other threads, now I'm conducting the first part of the experiment (intentional score drops - the fact I CAN do that in the first place is proof enough the entire way score is calculated and taken into account is not right), and the second part of the experiment would be to see whether the scores start slowly creeping back up after I drop them below what could be considered acceptable levels.

iBananco [Blue Army] March 14 2009 4:04 PM EDT

There's no such thing as WA.

Sickone March 14 2009 4:14 PM EDT

Well, they probably mean the combination between encumbrance and huge weapon + that does increase the PR, which creates an effect that's remotely resembling the old WA.

iBananco [Blue Army] March 14 2009 4:20 PM EDT

Encumbrance doesn't do anything to PR though.

Sickone March 14 2009 5:11 PM EDT

Yeah, but it limits the amount of NW you can pile on a character... although I guess that's not an issue if you only equip the items to train XP, not to actually fight too :)

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] March 14 2009 5:13 PM EDT

yea, forgot WA allowance was gone. I guess you could still abuse it a bit with the pth added PR but not much.
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