Criticize me. (in General)

QBOddBird March 18 2009 10:00 PM EDT

This is the long-term plan I currently have for Rogue - please, feel free to criticize, point out any flaws or weaknesses, suggest improvements, et cetera and so forth. I want your input.

Minion 1 (unhired ATM):
Rune of Balrog Flame
Elven Gloves
Amulet of Invisibility
CB T-Shirt 2008
3/4 HP
(as needed) Steel Skin
1/10 Phantom Link
small Antimagic Field; eventually tops at 100k.

Minion 2:
Helm of Durin
Noldorin Spellcasters
Cloak of the Istari
Mithril Shield
Adamantite Cuirass
Chain Mail Leggings
Amulet of AC
CB T-Shirt 2007
1/2 HP
1/2 Cone of Cold
Armor Proficiency

I intend to forge the AC up well past 300 before I start fighting with it.


Fatil1ty March 18 2009 10:02 PM EDT

well strat aside why would a member such as yourself considering spending the money on hiring a minino for a 1M mpr character? wouldn't it be more worthwhile to save the money and just run an NCB?

deifeln March 18 2009 10:03 PM EDT

What is total penalty on your CoC minion?

Would he survive with a BoE and all of those HP?

Wizard'sFirstRule March 18 2009 10:04 PM EDT

ok, I will critize you. You are a really bad player. is that enough? do you want another?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] March 18 2009 10:04 PM EDT

I think OB has mentioned sometime that he doesn't like running NCBs. I may be mistaken though.

QBOddBird March 18 2009 10:10 PM EDT

As Titan/Champs says, I do not like running NCBs. I'd prefer to stick with my current team.

Deifeln - I currently cast my CoC @ 103% of its effective level. After equipping the Mithril Shield, the last piece of the AC set that I lack, it will be 99.5%. I'll likely forge my CoI if I have Encumbrance room left over after I finish buffing my AC over 300.

I don't yet know if I would survive with a BoE over the Adam - but I don't see that small 5% bonus as being worthwhile over the extra damage reduction at this time.

BadFish March 18 2009 10:10 PM EDT

I'm not saying this would be a better strat, but if you're looking for other options, you could use a ToE instead of RoBF on ur PL guy. You can easily top out it's damage reduction to about 42%. That almost matches the damage reduction of all your heavy mage's armor put together, with none of the penalty.

People knock the ToE, and I can see why. Mostly my beef with it is that it basically stops improving once you get it to level 1,000,000. But it can be awesome if you use it correctly. Check out my strat, I use ToE and i'm 1337.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] March 18 2009 10:13 PM EDT

Put a MgS on your first minion OB.

Fatil1ty March 18 2009 10:14 PM EDT

alright in that case my biggest concern with the build is going against 4 minion EF or SG teams. A big EF or SG could take you out easily in 8 rounds (with HoC). Giving 1 hit per minion especially given the AC.

How will you combat that?

AdminTal Destra [C and S Forgery Lmtd.] March 18 2009 10:14 PM EDT

MgS nullifies AMF so theres more exp if you do

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] March 18 2009 10:15 PM EDT

He'd be able to kill them in the same time most likely, seeing as he'd knock out the enchanters in one round.

QBOddBird March 18 2009 10:15 PM EDT

Badfish - I had certainly considered that. Do you know (or can you tell) if the ToE stacks before or after total AC and other forms of damage reduction?

I mostly settled for the RoBF so that it could slow down Shocking Grasp attacks from the front, reduce damage on the FB spreadfire, and whittle away at Magic Missile and Physical Damage attackers with its "perfect damage" attack while they hit my mage.

However, I might be better served to focus entirely on tanks and use the ToE's endurance on top of that AC. I just really don't know. It is something that I have not disregarded; I'm just waiting for someone to prove to me that it would be a better choice than the RoBF at the moment.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] March 18 2009 10:15 PM EDT

He should put the AMF on his current minion.

BadFish March 18 2009 10:16 PM EDT

"Do you know (or can you tell) if the ToE stacks before or after total AC and other forms of damage reduction?"

I do not. This is something i would like to know as well.

QBOddBird March 18 2009 10:18 PM EDT

Champs - that's something I hadn't thought of...I wonder if it would be worth the slight loss in HP/DD on the mage to shift the EO and ED over to it, to put a Mage Shield on the RoBF wearing minion.

Fatal1ty - that's my biggest concern at the moment, as well. SG hits pretty hard...hence the magic reducing minion in front, to fire off 1-2 flame attacks and keep them away from my CoC mage while he hits them. Do you think Titan's idea about moving the spell and putting a MgS on the first minion would eliminate that threat?

Thanks for all the input so far, everyone! :)

three4thsforsaken March 18 2009 10:31 PM EDT

I don't think CoC is the best idea. It is weak against SG and takes monster AMF damage. I expect you're going to be fighting many people above your MPR so you should expect the worse.

SG on the other hand synergies very well with RoBF damage. They both hit the front and together can deal with kill slots. It's much more GA and AMF friendly.

QBOddBird March 18 2009 10:37 PM EDT

Hmmmm...anyone here got a SG around lvl 2 mil? Now that 3/4 brings it up, I'd like to test

1) Damage against a 0 AC team
2) Damage against a ~100 (base) AC minion
3) AMF blowback damage against a given AMF.

QBOddBird March 18 2009 10:38 PM EDT

That is, comparing my CoC to your SG.

three4thsforsaken March 18 2009 10:42 PM EDT

Now if you really want to do something kinda fun. Why not train a large decay? Imagine the one two punch of a decay and RoBF burn.

It's not perfect, but I know you like the underused ideas.

QBOddBird March 18 2009 10:47 PM EDT

I did consider that. It would work very nicely, particularly in a Decay/RoBF/SG order attack...

However, my issue is that Decay is vulnerable to AMF, and I want my RoBF minion to receive damage from PL'ing it <u>only</u>. This way he serves his purpose and stays alive an optimal amount of time in order to continue meting out the unstoppable and unreturnable "perfect damage."

Also, due to our PM conversation, I'm considering Shocking Grasp even more heavily now. I might have to eat some retrain fees and test it out.

Guardian March 18 2009 11:24 PM EDT

man i made 1.3m mpr in 3 months, u have 1m mpr in 4 years , that's way too low.
ncb do miracles ya know? u should run one.

Flamey March 18 2009 11:40 PM EDT

Your team would be Susceptible to SG regardless of whether you use it, no?

I think you're doing what you can to combat it, AP helps. I think that's one type of team that you're not supposed to beat, right? It's 1/5 DD spells that'll own you, and probably Archers, though with that sort of defense they need a massive bow. I think this is a really good strat.

Just a random suggestion, you've thought of MC and KS instead of AC and MS?

-8% to DD
at 5 mil NW
101 AC

-15% to DD
at 5 mil NW
113 AC


at 5 mil NW
73 AC

51 AC


Just a little on the spot research :) MS is definitely worth it over the KS, my bad :) But, interesting with the MC and the AC. Also can I add as I was checking NW values, the wiki values are off, the NW values are actually LOWER. I checked the top MCs they've got a few 100k off the Wiki values. Did the upgrade curve lower from the change? time for a new thread.


Back on topic. The MC gives you 12 less AC that's what? 2.52% Dmg reduction difference. So if you went with the MC realistically at a decent level you get -2.52% AC reduction and +7% to CoC.

deifeln March 19 2009 12:05 AM EDT

Isn't BoE vs. Adam a 20% difference in CoC? That might prove test-worthy.

QBOddBird March 19 2009 12:06 AM EDT

KW - I do not like NCBs. Yes, I've run my share. I'm done with the throwaway character game.

Flamey - True! Though in reality, I'm using AP, so it is a 3.5% buff to my DD...but still, a buff is a buff. I'll have to check them out at higher Net Worths as well, as I intend to put my armors up to a very high NW.

deifeln March 19 2009 12:06 AM EDT

And by 'test-worthy' I mean you might have to try a BoE is your strat.

QBOddBird March 19 2009 12:10 AM EDT

Deifeln - whoa, when you knock off the penalties, I hadn't thought of it that way. Again, I take my AP into account - it becomes a 13.5% bonus - but that is still huge! I'm going to have to take a second look at the BoE. Thanks for that insight!

Brakke Bres [Ow man] March 19 2009 3:44 AM EDT

To get the most of your AC get at least 380 AC.

I'm noticing my 360 AC is rather insufficient.
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