CHANGES to Retain New Users! (in General)


Fatil1ty April 7 2009 6:27 PM EDT

So I referred my girlfriend to play CB (it's quite an accomplishment actually) and it reminded me of how brutal the early game is for a new user. There are far too many buttons, and too little information on how things work. Fighting is time consuming and frustrating so I propose a major overhaul to several features. I would like other peoples opinions on changes and I would like to create a wiki with these suggestions. I would like to see some implemented next changemonth instead of any new items/changes (outside of balance and bug fixes)


1ST: A favourites list (perhaps smaller than the supporter one) right off the bat. Without a favourites it is BRUTAL to fight people. The simple enter,enter,enter doesn't work in normal lists so you have to press down to fight the next person = VERY frustrating!

2ND: Mouseovers. Instead of having a wiki explaining simple things like: Give's a 3% bonus to ranged combat for an item... have it so that all items in a persons equip page and in auctions are clickable where a small 2in by 2in window pops up (similar to how named items show up) and have it explain exactly what the item does. This way a new user isn't scrambling to find out whether an item is good for them or how it works.

2ND B: have the mouse overs work in fightlists. Have a mini popup window showup when going over each person in a fightlist listing a small sample of their trained spells, # of minions, and weapons. Clicking "inspect" is time consuming and honestly quite frustrating unless you're in higher levels and even understand what you're doing.

3RD: Deactivate certain spells or items at lower levels so that a person isn't bombarded with so many confusing spells to learn right off the bat. Perhaps have it so that at lvl 100k all spells become active and as you level up to 100k certain ones are activated.



Thoughts?

three4thsforsaken April 7 2009 6:31 PM EDT

early in the game you are changing targets so fast because of your growth rate a fight list won't be helpful.

I would prefer if new users started at 100k MPR so they could create a character that didn't double its MPR every few fights. It'll be much better for creating a strat right off the bat.

Fatil1ty April 7 2009 6:33 PM EDT

Brilliant idea 3/4ths...I completely agree. However I still think playing without a favourites list is brutal and should at least to some extent should be included in the NUB experience. I think the 100k idea is great honestly. Perhaps 10k would be a little better tho.

chaosal April 7 2009 6:34 PM EDT

what about like a sandbox mode, where you can freely distribute stats, try on various armor and tats, etc... like a godmode but only usable in the sandbox, and only fights against NPC types, or perhaps other sandbox characters. score would be irrelevant/nonexistant.

TheCakeIsTheTruth April 7 2009 6:35 PM EDT

Instead of a favorites, how about a suggestive fightlist? One the system itself matchs you with the highest, yet most suitable opponents.

Lord Bob April 7 2009 6:35 PM EDT

The simple enter,enter,enter doesn't work in normal lists so you have to press down to fight the next person = VERY frustrating!

Funny, this is something I wish would go away in favorites fight lists.

Fatil1ty April 7 2009 6:37 PM EDT

hey chaosal and Eversoris...keep in mind we're looking for easily programmable changes here. Big changes will DEFINETELY not be implemented. However I believe that certain things in the game need improving including a reduction in number of pages and the things listed above.


Keep all suggestions to ones that are small but may have big impact.

Rawr April 7 2009 6:37 PM EDT

Eversoris: Part of the game is figuring out what kind of opponents you can beat (at least it was for me, SFBM).

But I really really like choasal's sandbox idea. but then NUB would have to be toned down since the "stupid period" would be smaller. Or just go rolling bonus...

Gunny Pew Pew [Red Permanent Assurance] April 7 2009 6:39 PM EDT

Don't see much wrong with what early fighting mechanics Jon can control as you need all that BA and time to get a grip with the game. No point in a favs list starting out. Newbs would hurt what challenge bonus they get twice as much when they should be hitting Higher. Suggest constant use of Recent Battles for those without a favs list. Don't apply a form of limitations to spells because it's confusing, freedom rules, and this is coming from a comrade!

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] April 7 2009 6:40 PM EDT

NUB should just start one week after joining. That way, nothing you do can screw you up in the start. Making the game easier is not the solution in my opinion. CB is a game that you have to tame for a long time. New user coming in have got to want to work hard to learn it's workings. So, like I said, grant em a period of time to screw up and learn from their mistakes. That takes care of retention.

Also, CB is ''hit of miss''. You cannot ever increase the percentage of people who like it. It's just not conventional enough. The thing we need, I'll say it again, is to ADVERTISE it more. That would take care of getting new arrivals.

Flamey April 7 2009 6:58 PM EDT

Ash, that doesn't take care of NP retention, because people aren't running away because they've lost a week of their NUB. They're running away because because it's confusing.

Sandbox FTW.

Fat, there's already a wiki page discussing the tutorial, I suggest you add to it.

Lord Bob April 7 2009 6:59 PM EDT

"Suggest constant use of Recent Battles for those without a favs list."

Little known fact: you can only use the recent page a limited number of times per day.

I discovered this before I was a supporter and I used the recent fights list exactly as you recommended.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] April 7 2009 7:00 PM EDT

I'd like to know after how much time exactly they run away...wouldn't that be useful?

Demigod April 7 2009 7:00 PM EDT

"The thing we need, I'll say it again, is to ADVERTISE it more."

Did anyone else hear a "bingo" sound?

Fatil1ty April 7 2009 7:01 PM EDT

The tutorial is WHOLE nother problem and isn't really the point of my thread. The point is why make a tutorial for a broken interface when you could instead fix the interface and make it simpler with less duplicated pages and THEN make a tutorial.

Lord Bob April 7 2009 7:02 PM EDT

"I'd like to know after how much time exactly they run away...wouldn't that be useful?"

That I don't remember.

But it wouldn't be too hard to keep clicking until your access runs out. It might say it on the access denied page.

Flamey April 7 2009 7:09 PM EDT

Fatality, you just changed the entire focus then. What pages are duplicates? How is the interface broken? Fightlists used to be Down->Enter for Supporters too, that's just silly, to make it even lazier.

Go on tell me what's broken about it all, go!

chaosal April 7 2009 7:12 PM EDT

as for the fight list thing, before i had favorites i would open a new window for each of my targets- then all you have to do is hit 'fight' on each to cycle through them.

Flamey April 7 2009 7:13 PM EDT

Or just press down and then enter..?

chaosal April 7 2009 7:14 PM EDT

i didn't fight randomly past the first few days; picked my targets.

Fatil1ty April 7 2009 7:15 PM EDT

I'm just saying that making a tutorial and the changing things about how the NUB experience works seems a little backwards seen as you would promptly have to fix the tutorial you just made.


I say that before NS or Jon commission the creation of a new tutorial they look at the new user experience as it is now from all views: complexity, use of wki to convey simple "set in stone" truths about items, should be add pictures to items, etc

Once the New user and interface are easy to use and interesting (not to you or me but to a new person with no knowledge of the game) THEN make the tutorial.





Fatil1ty April 7 2009 7:16 PM EDT

thanks chaosal for a great example!!! Now tell me how you expect new users to stick around when they resort to things like opening a new window for each person on a fightlist?

Hakai [Aye Phelta Thi] April 7 2009 7:20 PM EDT

"Once the New user and interface are easy to use and interesting (not to you or me but to a new person with no knowledge of the game) THEN make the tutorial."



If this was done, it would need to be compatible to the iphone.
And I don't see pictures/graphics being added. Ever.

Demigod April 7 2009 7:26 PM EDT

For what it's worth, I don't think a fight list is going to make it or break it for any new user. Confusing spells and skills on the other hand...
Spoon-feeding strategy to new users is more important, and that would be done by adding to the tutorial. That being said, people have complained about the tutorial for a while, and I don't foresee the coding being done any time soon. Starting some kind of MySpace/Facebook spam to just bring in people might be better.

Sickone April 7 2009 7:27 PM EDT

" "Suggest constant use of Recent Battles for those without a favs list."

Little known fact: you can only use the recent page a limited number of times per day.
I discovered this before I was a supporter and I used the recent fights list exactly as you recommended. "


I was a non-supporter for ages, and that's how I always fought.
The first (and only) time I hit the limit and discovered it exists (it's 400 times a day, by the way) was when I participated in a tournament with a lot of starter BA.
A regular non-supporter shouldn't really hit that limit normally.

Dark Dreky April 8 2009 10:38 AM EDT

MOUSEOVERS! I am pretty sure I have had dreams about this.

I think having something like this would decrease the learning curve ten-fold, not to mention the amount of clicks it takes to get to the information you are looking for!

If something like this were to be implemented, I guarantee I could get at LEAST 5 more serious players on CB.

Demigod April 8 2009 11:03 AM EDT

Having a mouseover to pull up the stats of weapons and armor would be amazing, but I don't think Jon will suddenly do it. It would also require a 2-second delay to make sure the pop-up is wanted rather than have it become a nuissance item (like tag ads).

Fatil1ty April 8 2009 11:29 AM EDT

yesterday in chat, NS said that the mouseovers were something he was actively working on and one complete would be incorporated into all aspects of the game not just items.

AdminTal Destra [Forge Of Norn] April 8 2009 11:33 AM EDT

i have an idea, make it completely idiot proof and provide prime targets for your specific strategy, that way we don't have to hunt and find a good target


silver platter anyone???

/sarcasm

Dark Dreky April 8 2009 11:57 AM EDT

Silver platter? Mines actually white gold!

But seriously, good to hear NS has mentioned an interest in this.

Mouseovers ftw!!

{cb2}Dinh April 8 2009 11:58 AM EDT

Instead of mousing over to get pop-ups, how about just display the stats down in the bottom left hand corner of the page for items, like how it does when you mouse over a named item :)
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