I don't understand this rule (Baseball & Hockey) (in Off-topic)

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 22 2009 9:50 PM EDT

The Red line is a line drive hit that lands in foul play but is considered a fair ball because it is fair when it goes over the 3rd base bag in the air. The blue line, however, is also 'fair' when it goes over the 3rd base bag in the air, but it lands in the stands past the home run wall but also in foul territory. Why is this? Because of the stands and it being non-playable? I just really think it's stupid to have foul lines if you're not really going to use them...

Now for the controversal 'no goal' call in the blues game last night:

"""* Boyes tapped in his own rebound at 13:30 and Perron's tip-in tied it about 2 1/2 minutes later. St. Louis nearly got the go-ahead goal with 1:54 to go in the period after several players hacked away at the puck while Luongo was on all fours and Jay McClement finally tapped it over the line, but the goal was denied after a lengthy review because referee Marc Joannette had lost sight of the puck and intended to whistle the play dead.

Bob Hall, NHL supervisor of officials in charge of the game, said Joannette's whistle hand went up as the Blues began to attempt to jam the puck over the line.

"He meant to blow the whistle," Blues coach Andy Murray said. "He never did, but the rules say that's enough." *""" - ESPN.go.com

Now my question is, WHY IS THIS A FRIGGIN RULE? He MEANT to blow the whistle at that time?!?

Story time, so if I were to get pulled over for speeding, I could tell the cop, well, I was in the process of slowing down when you clocked me, so really you shouldn't give me a ticket.
I DON't think so, that would never happen. So why does it here? Whistle is a whistle, swallow it when you aren't sure of the call, keep it in your mouth ready to make the call when you KNOW what IS going on... It was in well before the whistle, trust me, I went back through my DVR plenty of times. I just do not understand ignorant rules in pro sports that are obviously stupid. IE NFL OT Rules, coin toss wins the game essesntially.


QBOddBird April 22 2009 9:52 PM EDT

I agree. Silly rule.

TheHatchetman April 22 2009 9:54 PM EDT

heh... they broke baseball... :P

kevlar April 22 2009 9:56 PM EDT

I never knew about the "in air" aspect over third base. I thought it had to hit the ground first and then it could go beyond the line (I know that is how it is pre-3rd base). That IS stupid.

I had a question about hockey (even though I am a hockey fan) when Sidney Crosby slid into the Flyers goal the other night and scored a goal... why can a player bulldoze into the net with the puck and it count?

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] April 22 2009 9:56 PM EDT

NHL refs suck. They are not consistent. They are sometimes blind, and sometimes they have eagle vision. They get in the way. Also, we are better situated than them, in our living rooms, to see what they don't. (Of what they do see that does not exist.) Which brings me to think maybe a couple refs should stand in a room with TVs.

What's more, the rules are not always clear, and some are just stupid, like the one you point out.

I love hockey. I hate the refs.

Eurynome Bartleby [Bartleby's] April 22 2009 9:57 PM EDT


smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 22 2009 9:57 PM EDT

To correct the baseball rule, the Home Run is considered foul, but the line drive is considered fair.

Lochnivar April 22 2009 9:58 PM EDT

With regards to the hockey call:

1) refs can't skate around with whistles in their mouths for obvious reasons, therefore there is a delay between wanting to call the play and the whistle reaching the mouth. So I can see the point here, however, like many sports rules it is subjective.

2) that 'goal' should never have counted regardless. Pushing the goalie's leg into the net so you can put the puck in is against the rules too. (any shoving of goalie parts to open up the net actually)

Good game to watch for the most part though!

Lefty April 22 2009 10:00 PM EDT

Any ball hit in the air that lands in foul territory past 1st or 3rd base that reaches a minimum height is a foul ball. A ground ball must past on the fair side on the field before entering foul territory to be fair, and a fly ball must land INSIDE the foul line/hit the foul pole to be considered fair or a home run.

kevlar April 22 2009 10:01 PM EDT

wow I'm tired that should have read "even though I'm a Penguin fan"

kevlar April 22 2009 10:03 PM EDT


Lochnivar April 22 2009 10:03 PM EDT

and Kevlar,

I suspect the reason the Crosby goal was allowed was due to the fact that shot,forward,&d-man all slid into the crease together as opposed to nailing the goalie then stuffing it in.

That said, I've had the impression that the 'refs' have been instructed to coax the Pens through as the Flyers seem to be getting the short end of the stick. Also, the play was originally called a goal (iirc) and the league needs a reason to over-turn that call.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 22 2009 10:04 PM EDT

But I never saw anyone pruposly shoving his leg in, as far as I saw, he kept going back to try and find the puck. And yeah, bulldozing a goalie is fine, but knocking around a loose puck is not? pfft. Whistle is the end of the play, not the process of moving the whistle to the mouth, IMO. The ref knew the play was more than likely gonna goto faceoff, get the damn whistle ready. I understand they might not see the puck all the time, but move around so you can try to see where it's at (and whistle it dead when you are just about 95% sure of where it's at, let them beat around for a bit, that's what the pads are for). I remember a few games back a puck came back out to the blue line a guy was a bout to take a shot from the line, and the ref called it dead because he thought the goalie had it.

Lochnivar April 22 2009 10:09 PM EDT

sp did you not watch the same game as me?

The overhead replay clearly showed the Blues forward's stick push Luongo's pad back off the post allowing space for the puck to go in.

Anyway, if the Blues were really the desperate to win the would have done better than 1/23 on the PP.

(that said, good to see St Louis back in the playoffs as the Blues/Leafs series in the 90s gave me many fond hockey memories)

Untouchable April 22 2009 10:12 PM EDT

no, your stupid!


smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 22 2009 10:12 PM EDT

Yeah, I might've missed that stick. But yes, they finally have a great team, next year will be their year, they will have the full team by that time as well. Erik Johnson hopefully will not be involved in another golf cart accident again! lol. But yea, i agree, they were terrible on the PP, especially the 0/5 (I think) on 5 on 3 PP's. But their high ranked Penalty Kill did absolutely nothing in this series, =( So I agree with you there, they didn't deserve to win after all those failed attempts, but still, that game, IMO, should not have even gone into OT.

kevlar April 22 2009 10:13 PM EDT

smallpau, you don't see players running into the net in soccer. I think there should be a rule for control and a player should not be allowed to enter the net or cross the line. If anything, there should be a penalty for it.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 22 2009 10:15 PM EDT

I see players run into socer nets all the time, haha. But Hockey, most of the time it will be goalie interference, so technically, there is a penalty for it, unless the player is force into the net. But that 'no goal' call, no player but the goalie entered the net.

Josh [Cult of the Valaraukar] April 23 2009 12:08 AM EDT

The only way the red line is considered fair is if it was a ground ball, the ball hit the ground in fair territory, bounced over the bag still fair, and then landed foul. No line drive that lands foul is ever considered fair, even if it goes over the bag.

QBRanger April 23 2009 12:10 AM EDT

Both the red and blue lines are foul balls if they do not touch the ground and land in foul territory.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 23 2009 12:16 AM EDT

Negatory, I was watching the Cards game tonight, and the 3rd base Ump called that exact line drive a fair ball.

QBRanger April 23 2009 12:21 AM EDT

Then something different than the red line happened. As any ball that lands, on the fly, in foul territory, is considered foul.

Bull3t F4c3 April 23 2009 12:23 AM EDT

baseball is a horrible sport imo, anyways theres still like 3 million games left in the mlb season, why fret?

QBRanger April 23 2009 12:23 AM EDT


There is a diagram in the middle of the page with lines showing fair and foul balls. Your red and blue ones are shown as foul balls.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] April 23 2009 12:26 AM EDT

Maybe, but as i was watching the replay (Barden, 3rd basemen, did not touch it in the air) the announcers said the Ump called it fair because the ball crossed above the 3rd base in fair territory. So, I assumed that was a rule that they knew about, otherwise why announce that as the reason for it being fair? =|

QBRanger April 23 2009 12:28 AM EDT

Perhaps it bounced before 3rd base, then went foul.

If a ball is struck, and hits the ground in fair territory, then eventually goes foul, it is considered fair if it crosses the 1st or 3rd base in fair territory.

This may be what you saw. And it is not an infrequent occurrence.

kevlar April 23 2009 12:30 AM EDT

face it, Umpires have their own rules ;)

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] April 23 2009 1:24 AM EDT

Small: Ranger is right in regards to baseball, I believe the ball hit in fair before it went foul, in which case the ump made the right call. If you are talking about the St. Louis Cards.
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