I believe a "Debate forum" is a bad idea. (in Debates)
I agree that the current animosity strewn throughout the forums is very painstaking to read through. Though I do not believe this forum is the correct answer.
It all depends on why you created the forum:
1. If you created this forum to help relieve the tension of people that is bleeding out into the forums. This will fail.
2. If you created this forum so that new players can read through the debates to get an understanding of the game. This will fail.
3. If you created this forum to help bring balance to the game. This has the potential to fail.
*1* If you created this forum to help relieve the tension of people that is bleeding out into the forums. This will fail. People don't like each other. People share different views and opinions. People believe different things. These, as well as other reasons unsaid create that tension/animosity across the forums. The fact of the matter is, bringing a bunch of people that don't like each other, don't agree, and don't have the same set of ideals/morals/whatever, into a single forum is not going to solve anything. It's going to make it worse. The fact is, some people are just stupid. Some people are just stubborn. While others are smart and open minded. It's reality, we don't live in telly-tubby-land where everyone's opinion is going to be received with open arms, where everyone is correct, and everyone loves each other ohh kumbyah.
Proof of this is people actually argued that the BoE was working as intended, and not bugged! I'm sorry, if that was your argument then you fall into the category of stupid. No beating around the bush. Either that or you were just trolling to get a rise out of Ranger. Either way The animosity will only intensify from this forum.
*2* 2. If you created this forum so that new players can read through the debates to get an understanding of the game. This will fail. The truth is, new players have a lot of reading to catch up on, this game has a lot of mechanics that are very overwhelming to a new player. Period. Everyone was a new player here once, do you honestly believe that as a new player everyone is going to spend 5 hours reading how the game works, just to come into a forum that they most likely don't even know about, but the few that stumble in here will be greeted by long winded arguments over mechanics they most likely don't even fully understand themselves. It won't work. Most people will browse a little bit, not understand what they are reading, and just NOT read the giant wall of text they will undoubtedly see.
*3* If you created this forum to help bring balance to the game. This has great potential to fail. This is the only reason I could see such a forum being in existence. If this is your only valid reason for having such a forum then you should change the name of the forum to Game Mechanics, or something of that nature. I fully support people coming together in civilized conversation about balance. Who wouldn't?
The problem is that by "debating" and arguing over these things, then expecting people to act in a respectful dignified way is just setting the rest of the forums up for failure, because the pent up animosity of being told flat out that your opinion is wrong by another person will just bleed out and make the forums that much more "heated"
Sorry for the wall of text, I hope those reading have enough understanding that you can't force people to get along or like each other no matter how hard you try, so this forum is doomed to fail under that pretext alone.
May 4 2009 5:02 PM EDT
Intelligent people will always debate/argue. Human nature.
Idiots also will do the same.
And get an intelligent person debating with an idiot and you have CB at times.
Depending on the subject, I myself am either.
No way to really stop it, unless you put extreme filters on the forums.
In reality, how is a debate forum different than the general forum?
Are we allowed to disagree with something put in the general forum?
It seems to me that a debate forum is nice, but overlaps with general in many ways.
and: "Proof of this is people actually argued that the BoE was working as intended, and not bugged! I'm sorry, if that was your argument then you fall into the category of stupid. No beating around the bush. Either that or you were just trolling to get a rise out of Ranger. Either way The animosity will only intensify from this forum."
He does have a point with that statement.
May 4 2009 5:12 PM EDT
"People don't like each other."
I would have to disagree with you on this one. There are people I believe drastically different then, Sickone, Lord Bob, but most of the time we are quite nice to each other. I know me and Lord Bob have back up each others arguments plenty of times. Also, I argue with novice a lot too. But, me and him still get a long well. It's all about listening and responding.
Yeah, I like everyone on CB. That's pretty incredible, when you think about, and consider we are on the internet. Blows your mind.
I disagree with it on one principle, some people might see this forum as an invitation as opposed to a 'wall of text'. Just the very nature of a 'debate' forum invited me to want to come in here and participate.
That being said, many of your other points are very valid, however-- the rules at the top of the debate forum set forth the very structured and almost rigid structure in which to have that debate. These rules, in theory, are a means to discriminate fairly against those who are going off the rails and trolling, versus those who are trying to debate their points on merits and sheer logical debate. I know that in practice this might all fall apart, but you can't blame us for trying. :)
i feel it is worth a shot. if it fails then we can call for it to be closed. failure is not guaranteed in my mind though.
also, it does give people the option to uncheck it in settings and just not see it.
one question though, is it by default enabled on new accounts or disabled?
"I disagree with it on one principle, some people might see this forum as an invitation as opposed to a 'wall of text'. Just the very nature of a 'debate' forum invited me to want to come in here and participate."
Yes but you're hardly a new player. What would a new player possibly have enough insight to participate when it comes to game mechanics?
I do like the idea of an area of intelligent conversation without the animosity and overall "grr factor" but couldn't this also be accomplished by just laying down some policy in General/Off Topic? Start handing out huge fines to players who need to learn manners, not only would TourneyPrizes grow substantially, but how nice would it be 4-5 months down the line if everyone just kept their bickering to pm.
I'm not convinced, I just thought I would add my .02 overall, it will be interesting to see down the road if anything positive comes from this thread. (Such as an ACTUAL civilized conversation).
"Are we allowed to disagree with something put in the general forum? "
Only if you're prepaired to have someone take a philosophical disagreement personally, and attack you personally for it. At least, that is what has been noticed...
May 5 2009 4:05 AM EDT
I think some people read too much into arguments/debates on the forums. Most of the debates I've had on the forums have been pretty friendly. As someone who enjoys arguments in real life, as well as online, CB is a good place to go for that. I know some people are simply naturally averse to the idea of debate, but it can be quite fun.
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