Tattoo Growth (in General)


Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 24 2009 11:21 PM EDT

One of the RoBF threads raised this question in my mind:

How much XP would a tattoo gain if a tattoo could gain XP?

The related question is, of course, how quickly tattoos level, and why. On my current 3-minion team, my tattoo appears to be gaining 1 level for every 12 points each of my minions receives. In other words, if I train all my exp, fight until all 3 minions have 1,331 XP, and update stats, my tattoo has increased 111 levels. If I zero out my XP again, fight to get 22,272 XP per minion, my tattoo has gained 1,856 levels.

Assuming 12 points of XP per level (which I think is accurate for other reasons), my tattoo seems to be gaining 1/3 of the total XP my team gains from each battle, or an equal amount of XP to each of my minions.

Firstly, can someone with a single minion test to confirm that their tattoo grows 1 level for every 36 points of Experience their minion gains?
Or someone with two minions test that their tattoo grows 2 levels for every 36 Experience gained?
I would be surprised to find any surprising new information from this testing, but I thought double checking that the amount added to the tattoo is, in fact, 1/3 of the total team XP, and not the same amount as each minion receives, would be good policy.

Secondly, is there any sort of curve to tattoo growth? Do the biggest tattoos in the game grow more slowly because they're on a curve, or because all the characters with MTLs big enough to wear them have already used their bonus period getting there?

Thirdly, let's consider what this means:
Halidon Familiar gets (50% ST, 50% Archery, 50% DX, 33% HP) 183% of tattoo level in stats.
Jigoro Kano Familiar gets (50% HP, 25% ST, 50% DX, 50% UC) 175% tattoo level in stats.
Mage Familiars all get (100% DD + 25% HP) 125% tattoo level in stats.
ToA gets (50% ST + 33% DX) 83% tattoo level in stats.

Any minion in the game training any stat gains 1 point for 12 EXP, but a familiar gains between 1.25 and 1.83 points for 12 EXP.
As for the ToA, its effect on the minion in question is to give it .83 more points for every 12 EXP, seemingly making it as good as a Hal... except that, on a single minion, its effect is more like getting 3.83 points for 36 EXP, which comes out to 1.277 per 12 EXP. That's not too good a boost.

Anyway, some stuff to think about, if you got where I was going at the end there.

Lefty May 24 2009 11:24 PM EDT

I didn't get the chance to read all of that, but I was wondering something similar to this today.

If there was a way to find out how much EXP a tattoo needs to gain a level, it would be a great way to find out how much EXP would be needed to keep an RoS user's Dispel Magic at 40% effectiveness of the RoS's level.

Rawr May 25 2009 12:36 AM EDT

"How much XP would a tattoo gain if a tattoo could gain XP? "

I lol'd.

How much wood could a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck could chuck wood hehehehehe

Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 25 2009 12:45 AM EDT

Emotion: It's interesting that you brought that up.

Analysis thus far leads me to believe that tattoos like the ToA and RoS (and maybe ToE) are more efficient on multi-minion teams.
For example: a ToA will increase 120 levels for every 4,320 XP gained by a team. For a single minion, this means he has a full 4,320 XP (or 360 points) to train into HP, ST, and DX, while he receives only 60 ST and 40 DX in increase from his ToA growth. However, on a 4-minion team, the ToA-wearing minion would only gain 1,080 XP in the time it takes the ToA to gain 120 levels. In other words, he would be receiving more stat increase from his ToA increase (60 ST + 40 DX = 100 stat levels) than he would be receiving from training all the XP he earns (for only 1080/12 = 90 stat levels).

The same principle applies with the RoS's boost to ED, with the ToE's inherent SS, or with RoBF-granted Evasion.

Familiars, meanwhile, are not directly made more or less efficient by team size alone.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 25 2009 12:45 AM EDT

Rawr: I'm glad you got it. :)

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] May 25 2009 12:51 AM EDT

Okay, I'm really tired and I have a headache but.... I did some testing and according to your earlier results it should be an increase of 1 level for every 36 exp on your entire team right? Well I did some test to confirm this and this is what I found. I would take my entire exp and divide it by 36, let's say I got 73 as a result. Well, I would expect my tat to increase by 73 levels, but it always increase by slightly more, not too much more, but slightly like 76 or so. That's all I can really do tonight, my head hurts.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 25 2009 1:00 AM EDT

That's possible. I'll test again in the morning when I have a full set of BA, but I haven't noticed any discrepancy at all over the course of like 40 or 50k XP.

AdminNightStrike May 25 2009 5:12 AM EDT

When the ROE came out, it was advertised to transfer 2/3 of the XP a tattoo would normally get onto the wearer of the ROE. The ROE would give the minion a 20% XP boost on a 1 minion team, or 80% boost on a 4 minion team (this is the same amount of additional XP to your whole party).

From that, you could figure out how much XP a tattoo actually gains.

The level of a tattoo used to be the level of a normal stat trained with all of the available XP, rounded to end in -20 or -70.

That has been changed to curve fit to something approximate, because the server was under such a heavy load. Since stats are no longer based on e^x but are now a flat 12 XP per level, that could probably be reverted (but isn't). This means that it's a curve fit that is almost what it would be under a strict XP > level conversion.


There are changelogs that explain all of that.

Sickone May 25 2009 6:47 AM EDT

No need to actually test, it was already in the wiki... to some degree :)

http://www.carnageblender.com/wiki/Various+Formulae
MPR = (EXP/1.4307)^(1/1.2501) = (MTL*24/1.4307)^(1/1.2501)
Max Tattoo Level = Total XP / 24
"Normal" tattoo growth = MTL * 2/3 = Total XP / 36 = Total XP / (3*12)

In other words, a normal tattoo gains 1 level for every 3 raw levels (3*12 XP) gained in total by your minions, yes, correct.
___

Or, if you prefer, the tattoo itself is (depending on which tattoo you're talking about, like you said, DD familiars are *1.25, JKF around *1.75, Hal over *1.83 theoretical plus virtual weapon NW, while ToA just *0.83 plus some virtual weapon NW and so on and so forth) between +27.66% to +61% to your team's "virtual" levels if you have it grown at regular rates, or up to (in the case of a tattoo at or over MTL) anywhere from +41.5% to +91.5% of your entire team's "virtual" levels.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 25 2009 7:35 PM EDT

Thanks for that, Sickone.

And I tested with 200k+ XP, and it's all dead-on (I didn't see the "little more" that Artemis mentioned).

Does tattoo NW increase linearly, as well? I never checked, but it always seemed that it was exponential-ish. Does anyone know that?

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] May 25 2009 7:56 PM EDT

"And I tested with 200k+ XP, and it's all dead-on (I didn't see the "little more" that Artemis mentioned)"

Yeah, which is weird, because I am always, *always*, getting a bonus. Does the type of tattoo you use possibly have an effect on it?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] May 26 2009 4:20 AM EDT

Do you have a naming bonus on your tattoo? That would give a 4% bonus to the level of the tattoo when its used.

Colonel Custard [SeeD] May 26 2009 10:11 AM EDT

Whoa! Named tattoos grow 4% faster and act 4% bigger than they are? That's double-sweet. I might have to get a name for mine.

Art: is the "extra" you see right around 4%?

Demigod May 26 2009 10:42 AM EDT

They don't grow any faster...

QBRanger May 26 2009 10:45 AM EDT

Named tattoos do NOT grow any faster.

All the naming does is make them function at 4% higher level.

AdminTitan [The Sky Forge] May 26 2009 11:25 AM EDT

Ok I know this is going to sound crazy, but I did some testing. The bonus that I am getting *is* 4%. Odd, I'm not sure if it's caused by the naming or something else, but I'm not sure what else it could be.
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