RE: Cash Vs XP (in General)

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] June 9 2009 5:24 PM EDT

This is repost of the idea that was originally given by Miteke in his Cash vs. experience thread. The issue is that alot of people were just reading Miteke's idea and then replying without reading the entire thread.

So here is a rough breakdown of the information that was discussed in the thread and ideas on how to make it work even slightly better.

At the creation of a new character, you can set a slider that would grant you more Cash, at the cost of XP, but the slider would never go any further towards XP than what it was originally set at. So you could never gain more XP than you normally would, but you could lower your XP rewards per fight to get more cash. This setting could never be changed and would allow those of us who would rather run Tanks/Archer to be able to, hopefully, keep our weapon's up to our Enc.

The issue with any type of Non-Mage team right now is that you cannot keep up with your Encumbrance to keep your weapon maxed. This is due to the fact that you cannot make enough money to keep up with your XP/Enc growth rate. The idea is that at the start of a character, and only then, you can set a slider to lower the amount of XP you get, say by 20%, and gain 20% more cash. So if you made 1000 XP and 200 Cash, you'd only get 800 XP but you'd get 240 Cash. (Money and XP were just two numbers I chose for simplicity of math and not the actual numbers of an actual character.)

Please note, the current idea is that you set up a slider type program to try and make a better profit on your run. But you could never move the slider any closer to XP than it would be as it is now. So you could take a 30% hit to your XP to make 30% more cash. But you can't get more XP than a character could get as it was now. There are basically two settings. The current setting and more cash at the lose of XP.

BUT, for those of you who wish to argue the USD Users would have an advantage, I'd like to point a few things out prior to your arguement.

<{CB1}Zenai_U'Lanya> If people dont make the moeny to sell then who is gonna buy

Zenai brings up a great point. The only people who would be using this system to apply it to their characters to make money would be the sellout NUBs. And since those multi's are becoming rarer and rarer, that limits the amount of cash ingame.

Now, because this system has to be in place at the -start- of a character, that means that Archers/Tanks would need to use USD from the very beginning of it. So I'll go ahead and post some rough info for you all who want to argue that USD would get the advantage here because they'd just buy all of their CBD.

Let's say that most people go All XP, thus raising the price of CBD to roughly $10 per 1mil CBD. To get a base ELB to the point where it would be competitive, you'd have to spend 50mil CBD to get +160. That alone is 500 bucks. But wait, those + won't do you a thing without some x's. So, multiply $7,798 * the X, is what is listed in the Wiki for the cost per X on a ELB. We'll take a nice happy round number... say 10,000 and that's our X's for this ELB. So, 10,000 times 7,798 brings us to 77,980,000, which I'll round up to 78 mil because that is generally what you'd buy. So, for that, we'd tack on another 780 dollars.

So tell me, who, of our players, will spend $1,280 just to get a Bow to the point where it will be able to hit on people with Evasion and DBs? And heck, that's just the weapon, you then need to figure out all of the cost of the armor and amulets that the single minion would wear. Not to mention the additional prices required for each individual minion that is added to that team, plus the -cost- of each new minion purchased. Which, at the current level of my team NoxDooDad, is just a tiny $70 compared to the $1,280 that was spent just to get an ELB to a competitive point.

So, any ideas that could possibly help this would be nice. If you have nothing useful to say, I will ask to have your posts deleted by an admin.

BadFish June 9 2009 5:34 PM EDT

When you say someone would go "All XP",("Let's say that most people go All XP, thus raising the price of CBD to roughly $10 per 1mil CBD.") does this mean they would keep the slider at its default position so the XP gained remains the same? If so please explain how this would cause CBD price to rise to 10 dollars per mil, i are confused.

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] June 9 2009 5:37 PM EDT

I was hypothetically talking about if you were able to get pure XP and no cash. Because there was the argument that everyone would just go "All XP" to boost their MPR and USD Spenders would take over the game.

My idea was specifically set so that way you could never do that.

BadFish June 9 2009 5:40 PM EDT

Aah, i see. I like the idea of being able to sacrifice xp for cash, but let's have it so you can adjust the slider every 6 months, and if you choose to do so, you are no longer eligible to create an NCB for another 6 months (Basically, it resets your NCB timer.) This way if you're unhappy with your choice you can wait it out until you can make adjustments again. I hate to see anything more that would contribute to the disposability of teams.

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] June 9 2009 5:43 PM EDT

I could see how that would work. Every six months, you could choose to either give yourself more money and lower your XP rewards further or you could choose to return to a more "normalized" cash/xp ration like what it is currently.

BadFish June 9 2009 5:46 PM EDT

Or you could choose to create an NCB. Also I would suggest that both the cash/xp slider and the NCB run on the same 6 months, so if you chose to create an NCB you would always have the ability to adjust its slide.

Almaisky June 9 2009 5:54 PM EDT

If the prices really go to $10/mil, I'm sure there would be people happy to move the slider all the way to pure cash and pump out cash for USD.

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] June 9 2009 5:59 PM EDT

If the slider can only be changed once every six months, you'd have to hope for some luck on the market prices when your time came up to try and sell all your CBD for USD.

QBRanger June 9 2009 6:22 PM EDT

I really dislike this idea a lot.

You will have multis and NUBs, likely some overlap putting the bar at full cash, with more sell outs and multis.

You will have usd spenders putting the bar on xp.

And those who do not spend usd, but want to play having the bar in the middle, losing xp ground to USD spenders.

A very bad thing for CB. Worse, IMO, then the current forced CB lottery. Not much but still worse.

FailBoat[SG] [Forever Alone] June 9 2009 6:24 PM EDT

There is no XP Bar. The only way those settings will go are to more cash but less experience or to what is the current setting, equalized cash and experience ratio.

QBRanger June 9 2009 6:26 PM EDT


So there will be more incentive for multis given the ability to make more money with the bar set to all cash.

No way do we want that.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] June 9 2009 8:08 PM EDT

There's already incentive in the form of massive bonuses for NUB multis, so what is the problem? If someone is interested in the extra rewards for cheating, they already have the reason. A slight change of cash vs xp would do relatively little or nothing to change that.

Why not just create a new choice when creating a new character? Much the same as you check a box to make a NCB, add a checkbox that would cut xp 25% and add cash by 25% on a new team. Make it similar to NCB, in that a NUB character could not select this extra bonus. However, a user could get cash bonus and NCB together. This character would never be able to compete in the top ranks, but would work marvels for those of us wanting to make money to fund a competitive team someday.

I guess I agree with everyone else here that bonus xp for less cash would be unfair for all. I don't think anyone's arguing we need that anymore.

Last thing: why not do the same thing with a forging character? Have an option that lowers xp rewards 25% (or whatever number Jon chooses) in exchange for 25% more forging efficiency when creating a team, or perhaps even just the removal of forging fees. That would definitely make forging worthwhile again. And it would revitalize the market for high MPR used teams- people would probably be willing to spend a little for a harder to make team that had cash or forging advantages.
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