In the shadow. (in General)

Isn't it strange that VA as a higher global exp trained then GS and Haste, SS will probably become higher too. It's probably mostly coming from all those long gone players.

I tried a strat but really failed to it. I think something is missing about those spell. Why get a divided str/dex when you can focus it on 1 minion.

DM is way better against GS/Haste then EC is against str/dex.

If you ask me, I think removing these two spell wouldn't affect the game at all. They are pretty much like the GoM and MenC, useless, since other skills are better.

Not to mention if you are trying to run a strat with GS or Haste, a RoS is probably you're only option since you rely on this spell and can't risk to lose a huge amount of str or dex.

Might say I'm wrong, but the numbers show the truth and I'm sure you can't think of a good way to use it and run a NCB to the top.

The preponderance of DM does indeed make those 2 spells rather worthless.

And if using a RoS, it is best to likely have 2 AS enchanters, 1 GA enchanter and 1 tank/mage for mop up duty. This does result in the best score/PR ratio.

One can get into why DM is increasing its popularity but that is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

Forgot to mention;

Every 'friggent' item does not work with GS/Haste (but AoF, still you get a bigger EC). And this is something I always found stupid.

Corn, SBs, BoE?

Those items increase DM as well.

Well if you look at it that way, then everything that increases DM increases GS/Haste as well.

With all the str item, you can get 100% in bonus. With the corn and friends, you get a huge 40%. With

And the fact that both DM and EC lowers it's effect doesn't make it very a popular choice.

DM is just so finger licking good in that is effects numerous ED spells AND stacks vs each ED spell.

That with AMF's uselessness (unless very low vs decay) makes GS and Haste as well as VA obsolete.

DM is much better against VA than GS/Haste if you think about it as it can cause a VA to cause extra damage to the opponent through negative drain.
So to use the argument that their low usage makes them worthless is laughable and to say that DM is a reason to remove those 2 is ridiculous as then you'd have to remove every ED.

First, if your VA is frizzled by DM, you won't hurt yourself.

Second, I didn't say that they should be erased cause of DM, but because it's just better to train str or dex then Haste or GS.

Third, as I know, you aren't using GS/Haste such as a huge percentage of active players. Just look at the attribute page, all the biggest GS/Haste are from retired characters.

The GoM has the exact same problem that GS/Haste has, no one uses it because other things are just better.

Training STR on an enchanter is useless whereas GS can help while also having a killslot, it's very easy to find a use for a compromise rather than staying overly specialised.
You can't just dismiss anything I say just because I don't use it and fine, if their DM is higher than your VA is just fizzles, if not it takes it down to a level where it is so low the effect is negative drain.
GS and Haste are plenty useful for enough people. Not everybody uses the same generic strats of the majority of the top end and these spells are there for this reason.
You can't justify removing something just because a lesser number of people use it, that converges strats to a boring old grindfest.

I personally really like GS and haste. If someone had enough money they could be quite effective with a strat using it. The main problem is that you would just need SO much money to make an very effective strat using them.

I love GS/Haste too. Since I started, I dreamed of this 4 tank character. I just know it's not possible. Ever since I started in 2006, these spell were never used in strong way. No one have ever said anything because these spell are like a mirage. You see something great that doesn't exist or are impossible to get.

Here is 1 strat I think could be interesting using GS. 2 minions 1 DM enchanter holding the hal and a big Msk, second minion a GS enchanter with another big Msk. This way you get 2 fair sized Msk attackers and Hal is super sized in str with the GS. It is of course vulnerable to DM but with 50% of your mpr trained into it, it is not that vulnerable.

Zoglog, I didn't say or meant to say we should remove them, I said and quote "If you ask me, I think removing these two spell wouldn't affect the game at all." If it had to be removed, I don't think it would affect the game. I love those spell and I've tried it a few time and I personally don't want to see them gone. I'm just being realist.

It would affect the game. There aren't that many but there are some people who use these spells to good effect.

Nem, you strat might work, but Ranger's would be better. And that's a great example of what I mean by it's better to train str and dex.


Few people uses the GoM, still some think removing it wouldn't affect the game.

Anyway I didn't make this thread because I wanted to remove it, I made it because with the change coming, I thought it could be a great opportunity to make them more interesting to use.

It's the only 2 spells with 2 EO counter. Not like if it was so powerful it needed 2 counters, in fact it's a bit weak. When it's not DM that gives you hard times, it's EC. I think it is ridicule and think it should be at least viewed by NS or Jon to see what they think of it.

I ran a fairly successful TOURNAMENT strat relying entirely on GS and Haste. Admittedly i did have one minions training AS with a lesser ROS equipped but the strat still worked! Because of the tournament bonus it was quite easy to run too, always enough money to pump into weapon upgrades.

You're win % was at 57 wich, for a 200k mpr, isn't very high.

A lot of those losses were either against DM users or BEFORE i made that final strat,
I had about 6 different strats in that tourney before i had gotten that one.