Plaxico Burress and jail. (in Debates)


QBRanger September 22 2009 4:31 PM EDT

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/09/22/plaxico.ap/index.html

For those not in the know, he brought a loaded Gloc to a nightclub in NYC. It was unlicensed in the state of NY. He had it in his waistband and it fell out. When he reached to get it, it fired and he shot himself in the leg.

He eventually pleaded and received 2 years in jail.

Some say it was too harsh a sentence given he only shot himself. Others say it was appropriate.

Thoughts?

Adminedyit September 22 2009 5:01 PM EDT

an unlicensed handgun in NY is illegal. the fact that it was loaded with a round in the chamber and tucked in his waistband and not in a proper holster is just extremely stupid. no discussion about it at all. it was unequivocally stupid. after showing such blatant disrespect for a firearm and disregard for public safety he should be happy that he only shot himself and not someone else. 2 years is IMO a light sentence for the monstrous indifference he displayed.

and for the record i am not anti-gun, i have a very nice collection of firearms and enjoy hunting a lot, its retards like this that make people like me have a hard time keeping the weapons we have.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] September 22 2009 5:02 PM EDT

i agree with edyit and if sentences could be extended for gross stupidity he should get an extra ten years!

NooneKnows September 22 2009 5:05 PM EDT

how hard is it to license a gun?

two years seems a bit harsh, as his only crime was not taking the time to get it licensed. but, there was an easy way to avoid it.

also, chedda bob, anybody?

Demigod September 22 2009 5:08 PM EDT

Seems like a massive sentence for just carrying a sidearm, but the law is the law... even if it is draconian. I'd rather see him spend 30 days in jail with two years of probation, but that's because I'm not used to such strict gun laws here in Georgia.

Oh well, I guess he shot himself in the foot on that one. (Pun!)

Adminedyit September 22 2009 5:10 PM EDT

>how hard is it to license a gun?

lets see the answer to that is a full background check, and filling out a form with a list of references. you make it sound like its an easy thing to get a pistol permit. heck you can't even buy a rifle easily anymore because of ignorant boobs like this schmuck, he should be glad he only got 2 years.
ask yourself this, if the errant round had hit a bystander and not himself would 2 years be enough then?

Demigod September 22 2009 5:13 PM EDT

"if the errant round had hit a bystander and not himself would 2 years be enough then?"

You really can't judge it off something that didn't happen. He didn't commit assault with a deadly weapon, nor did he commit manslaughter. He committed a weapons violation, with misdemeanor stupidity.

Adminedyit September 22 2009 5:17 PM EDT

the reason i think 2 years wasn't enough is not because he was carrying a weapon in public but because of how it was being carried. anyone with an ounce of intelligence has enough respect for a firearm to not walk around in public with a round chambered and ready to fire, that's what gets me the most.

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- September 22 2009 5:35 PM EDT

What an idiot, at least the public is safe from him for 2 years. Good riddance.

Lord Bob September 22 2009 5:53 PM EDT

The shot in the leg should have taught him enough. Two years for NOT hurting anybody else is a huge waste of taxpayer money. Put his picture up on the wall of the club with a caption that says "This is the useless half-wit who shot himself. Point and laugh at the moron if you see him," and that's as much punishment as he needs.

Lord Bob September 22 2009 5:55 PM EDT

"ask yourself this, if the errant round had hit a bystander and not himself would 2 years be enough then?"

No.

But it didn't, so you don't punish him for a crime that never occurred. You punish him for that one that did, and I say two years is too much.

NooneKnows September 22 2009 6:10 PM EDT

"you make it sound like its an easy thing to get a pistol permit."

it was an honest question, actually. didn't proofread; my bad.

LB's picture suggestion sounds good to me :)

Adminedyit September 22 2009 6:16 PM EDT

NY Gun Laws

Burress broke several laws with this display of stupidity. The only reason we are having a discussion about this is because he is "famous" if it was any normal person it would have been on page 5 and barely even noticed...

NooneKnows September 22 2009 6:24 PM EDT

fair.

InebriatedArsonist September 22 2009 8:09 PM EDT

Ranger:Thoughts?

-The prosecution of Plaxico Burress was driven not by the rule of law but rather by an entrenched group of politicians who hate the idea of regular citizens being allowed to have handguns, or any guns at all. The Mayor of New York City, Michael Bloomberg, is a rabid anti-gunner, and I personally believe that he and his like-minded friends in the District Attorney's office made a conscious decision to nail Burress to the wall because of their hatred of civilian gun ownership. In other states, Burress would likely avoid time in prison altogether, provided he kept his nose clean and paid a hefty fine. New York City, however, would rather see him take up space in prison. A real waste of time, money and effort all around.

Nothingofkonsequence:how hard is it to license a gun?

two years seems a bit harsh, as his only crime was not taking the time to get it licensed. but, there was an easy way to avoid it.

-The Sullivan Law and the politicians and bureaucrats in control of the licensing process make applying for a handgun permit a real crap shoot. It takes time (as in months), the process is complicated, it's expensive and applications are not guaranteed issuance for lawful citizens.

Cube September 22 2009 10:59 PM EDT

I know he broke the law and that's what is defined as the punishment, but I think it's clear he was just an idiot about it and not trying to be malicious. Given that he plead guilty et cetera, 2 years does seem harsh. I would expect a few months if he's only being charged with owning it. I'm actually surprised to learn that he'd need a New York permit if he already had one in Florida.

Actually, I just looked back at the article I guess his Florida license had expired. IMO 6 months to a year sounds fair to me, and yeah, take his right to own a gun for however long, he clearly doesn't know the first thing about how to handle it safely anyway.

Lord Bob September 22 2009 11:21 PM EDT

"The only reason we are having a discussion about this is because he is "famous" .."

He's what now?

Lord Bob September 22 2009 11:22 PM EDT

Oh, he's a football player.

News to me.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 September 22 2009 11:23 PM EDT

Famous.

Burton September 22 2009 11:26 PM EDT

Pure stupidity on his part, but 2 years is indeed quite harsh considering he only hurt himself.

Cube September 22 2009 11:33 PM EDT

So I was just reading wikipedia on Glocks apparently one of the criteria when it was designed was:

"6. The pistol must be absolutely secure against accidental discharge from shock, stroke and drops from a height of 2 m on a steel plate."

What gives?

InebriatedArsonist September 23 2009 12:00 AM EDT

Cube:I'm actually surprised to learn that he'd need a New York permit if he already had one in Florida.

-You're thinking of a gun permit in terms of a driver's license, which is a very different model. Firearms are generally regulated at the state level, not at the federal level, and the laws regarding permitting and allowable firearms vary greatly from more permissive states (such as my home state of Pennsylvania) to less free states like New York. New York City has authority to make it's own firearms regulations, and their policies are among the strictest (even most repressive) in the nation. New York City requires a permit just to buy and own a gun of any type, and while those ownership permits can allow for concealed carry it's very rare for the city to actually grant that ability. Florida doesn't require a permit to possess and use a firearm, but it does require a permit to carry a concealed handgun in public. So, while Plaxico had a permit to carry a handgun in Florida, that permit would be meaningless in New York.

What gives?

-Hitting the ground wasn't what set off the gun, it was trying to grab it out of midair and accidentally pulling the trigger that did it. Most modern firearms are designed to pass a drop test, Glocks included. Trying to grab a dropped gun is a bad, bad idea.

TheHatchetman September 23 2009 12:09 AM EDT

"-Hitting the ground wasn't what set off the gun, it was trying to grab it out of midair and accidentally pulling the trigger that did it. Most modern firearms are designed to pass a drop test, Glocks included. Trying to grab a dropped gun is a bad, bad idea."


Perhaps, but look at it from the other side... Think of it as a live ball...

Tyriel [123456789] September 23 2009 12:14 AM EDT

I don't see why you Americans feel the needs to carry guns any and everywhere.

Aside from that, I don't really care because I doubt gun laws will ever apply to me.

Though it amazes me how stupid famous people are, and how famous stupid people can get. In general. Obviously not all famous people are idiots, but a lot of famous people that come to mind are either insane or idiotic. Or possible both. Yes, I'm looking at you Paris Hilton, Kanye West, Britney Spears, and this guy.

By the way, 'Plaxico' is an interesting name.

Cube September 23 2009 12:40 AM EDT

Well, I was referring to part of the constitution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Faith_and_Credit_Clause

But I guess in practice it's not universally true.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html

Demigod September 23 2009 7:19 AM EDT

"I don't see why you Americans feel the needs to carry guns any and everywhere."

We don't. It's just a tiny percent of our citizens, but they end up creating enough news for all of us.

Marlfox [Cult of the Valaraukar] September 23 2009 7:40 AM EDT

Demi, I'd like to see where you got those statistics on people who "cause news" for the rest of us.
In fact, according to a Wikipedia article:

[Regarding revocations of concealed-carry permits] The numbers of permit revocations are small. North Carolina reports only 0.2% of their 263,102 holders had their license revoked in the 10 years since they have adopted the law. Florida, which has issued over 1,408,907 permits in twenty one years, has revoked 166 for a "crime after licensure involving a firearm," and fewer than 4,500 permits for any reason. Those statistics concerning Florida revocations amount to 0.01%

I do not believe the percentage of people who have concealed carry weapons to be as small as you make it out, Demi.

Demigod September 23 2009 7:46 AM EDT

Marl, owning a CC doesn't mean you carry everywhere. I know a lot of people here in Georgia with CC permits, but I only know of two people who carry guns most everywhere they go. One of those is a gunsmith, and the other works security.

Take in mind that I don't count people who simply leave sidearms in the vehicles, and that's not really the

Demigod September 23 2009 7:47 AM EDT

And the cutoff word is "issue." Thanks for playing the home game.

QBRanger September 23 2009 10:09 AM EDT

I personally have a concealed weapon permit and almost never carry.

No reason to, most places I go are quite safe.

Those times I have to go somewhere I do not know, I do carry but it is less than 5% of the time.

I do think Plaxico got a harsher sentence than a non athlete would since the DA was trying to show no favoritism towards athletes.

But he did carry an unlicensed gun into a nightclub and had it go off. It produced a danger to the public and that was the key point.

Even in Florida, if you have a license to carry, you cannot carry into a nightclub. Or any establishment that has more than 50% of its revenue from alcohol.

Demigod September 23 2009 10:20 AM EDT

Ranger, you posted this in debates, so what's your stance? Do you think it was too harsh or appropriate?

QBRanger September 23 2009 10:33 AM EDT

I believe he got exactly what he deserved.

Points to be made:

1) It was an unlicensed gun. He had a Fl license. However, when you take the course, you are told specifically that the license is not good in all states. There are about 15 states that honor a Florida concealed weapon permit. NY is not one of them.

2) He took it into a nightclub. Another fact he knew or should have known from his course in Fl. The course one has to take to get a Fl permit.

3) He put it into his waistband. Not in a holster as you should. Very careless.

4) It was a Gloc. Anyone who has one knows this particular weapon does not have a safety. It also has a very light trigger needed about 4-5 lbs of pressure to fire. A noraml gun like a Sig needs anywhere from 7-10 lbs to fire. So that was very careless.

5) It fired. It does not matter that it only shot him in the leg, the bullet missed a bouncer by 12 inches, according to the reports I have read. Even if it missed everyone by many feet, it still produced a public danger.

Yes he was stupid, but he also broke many laws.

The DA tried to settle the case early on, with a term of 4-6 months in jail. However Plax decided at the time he did not want to do any jail time. So the case dragged on and eventually he saw that he was hosed. And pleaded to 2 years instead of the 3+ he could have gotten if he went to trial.

The laws in NY were made to prevent unlicensed guns from being carried and potentially fired. Just like this occurrence. Perhaps the next idiot thinks about doing the same thing now thinks twice knowing the penalty that can occur.

But the laws he broke:

1) Having an unlicensed gun in the state of NY
2) Carrying an unlicensed gun in the state of NY
3) Carrying an unlicensed gun into a bar
4) Unlawful discharge of a weapon
5) Causing injury from an unlawful discharge-according to the law, it does not matter if you are the person who gets injured

The only thing that saved him from doing a lot more prison time was the fact it was his first offense.

But 2 years for breaking multiple laws, most if not all were felonies, is justified.

QBRanger September 23 2009 10:44 AM EDT

And just for completeness:

I obtained my permit to be able to have my gun and keep it for home defense. One can buy a gun without a concealed permit.

During Hurricane Wilma, my community lost power for 9 days. During that time the police were quite busy with other tasks, and I knew my home and personal property was not a priority for them. For the first 4 days, I did not have cell phone or regular phone service.

I had to be in town due to my job. But at night, while at home, the only thing keeping me safe was my baseball bat and my dog. The dog as my alarm system :) There was some looting but thankfully it was not near where I live.

After that, I decided I needed a weapon for future situations like this one. In order to know how to properly and safely use a weapon, I took a course. To get my permit to carry was only a little more effort so I did.

I do not plan on carrying a weapon and do not even like to. However, I feel much safer knowing if/when we lose power again, I have the ability to properly protect my house and family.

If I carry a weapon, I do not carry my Gloc. No safety makes it very easy to misuse unless your a trained professional. I carry a .32 Tomcat, which has a safety, if I must have one on my person.

Not all people who have permits carry. In fact very few of the people I know that have one carry a gun. Most have it for situations like mine, home defense.

QBRanger September 23 2009 10:45 AM EDT

your should be you're

Cube September 23 2009 11:57 AM EDT

"But 2 years for breaking multiple laws, most if not all were felonies, is justified."
I agree with that, but the only reason I have a problem with it is because they only tried him for the licensing of the gun. I don't like the idea of other offenses not being brought up because it's easier to get him on just one charge, but such is our legal system. If they gave him 2 yrs, based on all of the original charges, I wouldn't have a problem.

"I do think Plaxico got a harsher sentence than a non athlete would since the DA was trying to show no favoritism towards athletes."
This I also have a minor problem with, but it's better than showing him favoritism anyway. Given the concern about showing bias two years makes a lot more sense.

Of course, none of this is anything I'm going to lose sleep over. Minor complaints.

QBRanger September 23 2009 12:08 PM EDT

To be honest, they did not go to trial yet.

The DA had an indictment on 1 charge, but could have and likely would have if Plax forced him to go to trial.

This is not unusual in the legal system according to my lawyer friends.

I am certain the plea agreement covers all the possible felonies from this case.

Cube September 23 2009 12:50 PM EDT

I understand it's not unusual. I just don't like the idea of it, but I guess in reality it's not that different.
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