Just pointing out... (in General)


Rawr October 11 2009 12:25 AM EDT

8 of the top 15 characters use RoBF. Is CB becoming RoBFblender?

Burton October 11 2009 12:26 AM EDT

Just an overpowered item being abused ofc. :)

Rawr October 11 2009 12:27 AM EDT

oh I apologize.

9 of the 15. I didn't realize Iconics also follows the path of the RoBF.

Cube October 11 2009 2:17 AM EDT

But only 1 of the top 5.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 11 2009 6:15 AM EDT

Rawr, wrong its GA blender. RoBF is the answer to it.

Rawr October 19 2009 6:28 PM EDT

i forgot about this post but...
I disagree that it is GA blender. Sure I am somewhat biased being a GA user myself. But, at least it has solid, xp based counters (VA, RoBF, and DM). RoBF (which is always coupled with AMF, AC Walls, and sometimes the PL/TSA wall) has one counter it seems - insanely high NW weaponry. OR, by fighting RoBF with RoBF. <------ my point

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 19 2009 6:31 PM EDT

I'm surprised an item that does the lowest damage of anything in CB, coupled with the fact that it, unlike everything else in CB, can't be boosted in any way, causes much of a problem to those not reliant on GA.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 19 2009 6:41 PM EDT

count the number of archer teams coming up in...say the top 100 active scores. those using either a hal, elb or combo is pretty crazy!

QBRanger October 19 2009 8:31 PM EDT

Yes,

The RBF is and will be overpowered until it gets fixed.

It has a unique type damage, that AMF or GA does not help versus.

The ToE is useless vs it.

It also has a nice magic resistance as well as a nice evasion which at the top levels stops 1 hit a round.

All in one great neat package.

Now, combine it with the exbow and you have a character that cannot be beat except for someone with a massive SG or EF. Or of course another RBF.

AC helps, but only if you have the ability to actually do damage to the RBF wearer over the rounds you live, which is very hard.

And GA does have a significant counter --- DM.

QBRanger October 19 2009 11:55 PM EDT

There are 25 out of about 66 active characters in the top 74 scores that use missile damage as a main damage source.

Via using a HF, ELB, MsB or SoD.

Far less than I thought there given all the HF is OP threads.

QBRanger October 20 2009 12:00 AM EDT

I also count 11 using the RBF in those same 66 characters.

One uses both the RBF and missile damage.

Not sure what to make of these stats.

However there is something to be said of 8/15th of the top are using 1 particular tattoo.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 20 2009 6:11 AM EDT

"The RBF is and will be overpowered until it gets fixed."

It isn't, and even in the hay days of Evasion, never has been, OP...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 20 2009 6:11 AM EDT

"However there is something to be said of 8/15th of the top are using 1 particular tattoo."

GA....

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 20 2009 6:18 AM EDT

the RoBF foil is AC plain and simple.

The damage is only ones per round, but like I said the RoBF is a good way to counter GA with.

And since the top GA teams always use a RoS. DM is in that respective underpowered.

MissingNo October 20 2009 7:56 AM EDT

I think Mikel started using it first... then I copied him.. and others copied either him or me, or copied another person copying him or me. :D

QBRanger October 20 2009 8:19 AM EDT

"the RoBF foil is AC plain and simple. "

Ok, the RBF has 1 foil.

Wow, opposed to so many foils other things have.

1 foil makes it balanced?

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 20 2009 8:33 AM EDT

how many foils does the RoS have?

QBRanger October 20 2009 8:44 AM EDT

"how many foils does the RoS have? "

1) Heavy AC to reduce the GA damage, the same foil as the RBF

2) The RBF

3) Multiple minions attacking

That is 3x the RBF foils.

The RBF would not be so bad if it did not have multiple great properties.

1) Unique damage, no vulnerability to GA, AMF or the MgS/SoC.
2) Decent Magic Resistance.
3) Decent evasion. As I stated over 8M gives you 1 less hit per round. Which is somewhere between 25-33% less damage per round. A huge amount.

Now add in the other abusive items in CB and you have basically an unstoppable character.

That is the exbow and the PL/TSA/revive minion.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 20 2009 9:07 AM EDT

Wrong Ranger, DM was the correct answer, you are listing foils to GA

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 20 2009 9:10 AM EDT

3. dont get me started again. You count the 2x BTH as a base and not as bonus and no the evasion on an RoBF sucks. And not all tattoo's out there are 8mil and everything below that 8mil the evasion sucks.

QBRanger October 20 2009 9:39 AM EDT

Evasion part of the discussion:

Even an evasion of 70 is still 2 less hits every 3 rounds.

Do not get me started on your misunderstanding of how powerful that really is. It does not matter if you get 200 BTH, 160 BTH or even 60 BTH. The evasion on the RBF works on all the PTH you accumulate. Whether is it via the ToA, weapon PTH or even dex advantage BTH, the evasion works on lowering the number of times you get hit a round.

RoS part of the discussion:

And with respect to the RoS, the main damage component is GA given the xp dilution of 4 minions. I hoped you understood that.

If you can get through the GA, which is again the main damage component of the RoS, you almost always win.

Which is why the RBF is one of the foils to the RoS, as is DM and heavy AC.

Contrary to your own admission of only AC as the RBF foil.

Rawr October 20 2009 10:21 AM EDT

RoS counters:
ユ RoS means little offensive damage, so any team with high defense means the best chance you've got is a stalemate.
ユ Big DM's eat RoS alive.
ユ RoBF.
ユ VA

Yes, these are counters to GA. But you said so yourself, RoS users typically use GA. Those that have RoS and don't use GA are very uncommon and from what I can tell, not as successful.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 20 2009 10:44 AM EDT

"But where is the foil for the exbow/RBF character? Which needs FAR less NW to succeed than an archer. I cannot find one except perhaps a massive AC wall or a massive SG/EF.

Wow, that is choice :)"

"Ranger, what's the foil for an Archer with a massive ELBow and ToA, backed by an Invisible Leadership minion, with a PL/TSA combo to back it up?

Oh and DM to stop GA.

What's the many amounts of choice to foil that?"

"GA/AS works great.

So do Jiggies."

"So same sort of choice as a Massive Wall or a Massive SG/EF? ;)"


So we're back to foils again?

Looks like the RBF has the same sort of foil options that ELBows do...

Nerf ELBows!

QBRanger October 20 2009 11:31 AM EDT

Yes,

Let us nerf a weapon where one has to spend oodles of CB, which does have many foils.

While the RBF has but 1 foil.

Certainly well balanced?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 20 2009 11:47 AM EDT

Many?

QBRanger October 20 2009 12:23 PM EDT

Yes GL,

Many foils, read your other post:)

Rawr October 20 2009 7:31 PM EDT

ELB can be stopped by ToE, high AC, GA, and Evasion (such as jigs or evasion walls)

Tyriel [123456789] October 20 2009 7:49 PM EDT

"8 of the top 15 characters use RoBF. Is CB becoming RoBFblender?"

Well, the RoBF takes care of the offense on a team well enough by itself, akin to what a familiar can do. By using your tattoo for offense, the minions can be focused on defense.

Using familiars for offense brought the single minion enchanter into play, a mostly defensive team based around its tattoo.

The RoBF brought the multi-minion defensive teams that, like a single minion enchanter, do not need a huge investment. I, before I retired my character to get ready for an NCB, had probably about $55m NW, outside of my tattoo, and could fight very effectively with it.

With a good investment (lots of CBD or some USD), archers can take down RoBF teams, like they can take down single minion enchanters.

I think the 'problem' high-NW ranged teams have is that defensive set-ups are the only way to beat an offense-heavy team without spending a very, very considerable amount of CBD on items (excluding the Exbow, of course, we all know what everybody thinks of that). Not only does the RoBF allow defensive strategies, it encourages it because it does almost nothing unless you manage to get to melee with it.

I think the problem is that mages (in general) can't compete with the RoBF's extreme defense and archers' extreme offense, and it's all-but-forcing people to (assuming they want to fight as high as possible, do as well as possible, etc.) go with either extreme defense if they don't have the funds, or extreme offense if they do.

So, no, I'd say CB is not becoming RoBFblender. I'd say it's becoming more of Extreme-offense-or-extreme-offense-or-you-failblender.

Though, really, I should have taken a look at all the top teams before I made this post. I can't be bothered, though, so I wouldn't be too surprised if half this post is just mis-informed jibberish. :P

Also, I would just like to ask Ranger one thing: Of all the RoBF teams, how many are actually using the Evasion granted by the RoBF actively? As in, the minion with the RoBF is the main target for physical attacks, or has enough HP/AS/whatever to survive through multiple rounds of being attacked? I doubt very many RoBF teams are using the Evasion granted by it, few enough that it makes almost no difference in the grand scheme. I'd say RoBF users are likely more worried about where their RoBF is positioned (in safety) than using every piece of the RoBF to maximum effectiveness, and I'd also say that most RoBF users have a better counter to physical damage than the Evasion from the RoBF.

QBRanger October 20 2009 8:09 PM EDT

Nem is using that evasion to help him beat me. He admits it is part of his plan/strat.

However, I am an extreme example.

Perhaps if other missile users with more appropriate bows answer.
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