Why the drop system MUST DIE a horrible death (in General)


Sickone October 14 2009 2:47 PM EDT

The drop system came with a 20% cash rewards cut.

Before the cut, depending on performance, MOST OF US used to earn somewhere between 200k and 300k CB$ per day (or if you prefer, between 1.4 to 2.1 mil per week).
After the introduction of the drops (after a 20% cash reduction), that turned into 160k to 240k per day (or, if you prefer, somewhere between 1.1 mil to 1.7 mil per week).
Feel free to adjust the numbers below based on how much cash you personally earn (be it now or before the change), if your earnings are outside the specified region.

Basically, due to the drop system, we have been earning anywhere from 40k to 60k less cash per day.
The drop system has been in place since June 3rd, or exactly 19 weeks (133 days) ago.
This means most of you "lost" on average somewhere in between 5.3 mil and 8 mil CB$ during this entire period.
Of course, that does depend on how much you earn on average, if you seldom fight that might as well be less than 3 mil, or if you're a heavy fighter with high challenge bonus targets that might even be more than 10 mil.

Now... I ask of you... HOW MANY of you have had so far drops that total in-between 5 to 8 mil CB$ so far ? I'm willing to bet not that many (by the way, congrats on BARELY BREAKING EVEN).
Or any above 10 ? At most a handful. Lucky bastards ;)
How about below 3 ? I bet LOADS. If you are not one of the lucky ones, if your drops total value is far lower than 3 mil (for me, barely 2 mil if I'm generous with the value of stuff I kept), you have been royally screwed by the drop system (like me).

This is why the drop system must die a horrible and painful death as soon as possible.

Sickone October 14 2009 2:52 PM EDT

P.S. I used to earn on average about 250k per day before the drop system.
The introduction of the drop system has reduced my total cash income by at least 6 mil CB$ (probably closer to 7 mil CB$), and the value of the drops were far below 2 mil CB$.
Overall, the drop system has cost me so far somewhere in between 4 to 5 mil CB$, and if it keeps going like that, it's between 12 to 15 mil CB$ lost each year the drop system remains in place.

Burton October 14 2009 2:58 PM EDT

I've made about 5M from drops.
But I am on NUB, so I lose much more $$ per day then you guys. :(

QBRanger October 14 2009 2:59 PM EDT

I think most of us agree.

However, there are those that suggest this is primarily done to decrease the money in CB2. Something I disagree with but unless Jon or NS chimes in we will never know.

However, I would get your hopes up for a reversal of this drop system.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 14 2009 3:02 PM EDT

my drops equate to a massive total of 550k.

Lord Bob October 14 2009 3:22 PM EDT

"my drops equate to a massive total of 550k."

Which is far more than what mine were worth.

QBRanger October 14 2009 3:23 PM EDT

I seem to be one of the lucker ones. Total about 3M for my drops.

And I believe this system is wrong and should be abolished.

Sickone October 14 2009 3:25 PM EDT

"However, there are those that suggest this is primarily done to decrease the money in CB2. Something I disagree with but unless Jon or NS chimes in we will never know."

The official statement of the cash reduction was that it should have compensated for the value of drops.
Many people have complained ever since that time that it's a much too harsher drop in cash income compared to the potential average value of the drops, but we were led to believe it was supposed to be a zero-sum game... which, given actual experiences, it's become obvious it's not.

Now, if Jon would have wanted to reduce the CB$ reserves in the economy he could have simply stated "there is a 13.333% decrease in fight rewards across the board", and we would have had no choice but to accept it. He wouldn't have had to disguise it as the on-average-losing lottery system we have now with the drops.

So, it's either Jon that made a mistake (calculating the needed and setting the actual CB$ loss at way too much for some reason, and he still hasn't realized the mistake he's made) in which case we should keep drawing attention to it... or it's Jon that was being intentionally sneaky (but then again, he doesn't need to be, as explained) so he should just go ahead and say this was the intention all along.

Sickone October 14 2009 3:27 PM EDT

"I seem to be one of the lucker ones. Total about 3M for my drops. "

You mean, one of the least unlucky ? :)
To be considered lucky, your drops' value would have to exceed the amount of CB$ lost so far :P

QBRanger October 14 2009 3:30 PM EDT

Sickone,

I am just stating the discussion used by some to justify this system.

I believe, as you do, there was a direct correlation between the drop system and the lower monetary rewards. As they were both in the same changelog on the first post. Stated to be a Zero-Sum event.

I agree with your assessment of the system and I have stated the same thing many times in the past. With plenty of help from Sut.

However, it seems moot as this change is destined to be forever.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] October 14 2009 3:36 PM EDT

Given the continued slide of market prices maybe a recalibration is in order ;)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 14 2009 3:44 PM EDT

I don't think a single player actually likes the random drop system.

Why keep in place a 'feature' no one (I'm sure to get the odd geezer posting in support now...) actually likes?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 14 2009 3:45 PM EDT

Could we maybe have a poll to show support/distain for the drop system?

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] October 14 2009 3:52 PM EDT

It's not really about the geezers... this (in my mind) has always been an attempt to synthesize the rush that was previously provided by seeing a rare in the store. The theory being that it contributed significantly to the number of people who stuck with the game.

Much like the fight feed existing users are pretty meh about it, but it's been included (and kept in the case of the drop system) in hopes that it might give a new user some of the experience that kept us here in the first place.

The drop system has many flaws... but I think with adjustments it could very well end up giving a new user the experience bump they need to become a BA Addict(TM)

*Trademark of Nymandus Industries

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 14 2009 3:55 PM EDT

I can see that in item driven games (like Duels). But really items in CB don't have the same sort of 'WOW' effect.

As you either have the rares you need, or are getting enough money to buy them. Getting the rares you need as a new player isn't a hardship, and seeing things like Kat's and Elven Stilleto's drop is gonna be a 'meh for everyone (and a tatoo, after you have the one Tattoo you need). ;)

BHT October 14 2009 4:07 PM EDT

As a NUB I have lost well over 10mil. My drops in total have netted me far less then half of that. Not to mention I haven't recurved a drop in about 2 months. I was all for it IF it actually balanced it self out but it seems that it hasn't at all. Give us some of our rewards back or increase drop rates.
I wouldn't be surprised if this has effected the market in a negatie way. The market currently stinks and I'm positive this has contributed to that.

QBRanger October 14 2009 4:10 PM EDT

Considering the number of users is about 220 give or take for the last 6 months, is the drop system actually helping to keep people?

No, and considering all of us hate it, it needs to be considered a failed experiment.

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 14 2009 5:30 PM EDT

It actually has a wonderful effect on liquid cash. Down by 200mil. That never happened in the history of CB before.

(CB1)WFP October 14 2009 5:52 PM EDT

hey i would just like to get one drop so you all are lucky compared to me.... :(

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 14 2009 5:59 PM EDT

"Considering the number of users is about 220 give or take for the last 6 months, is the drop system actually helping to keep people?"

previous to the change we were steadily declining for years and it was 216 on the day of this change so we have reversed the trend! ; )

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 14 2009 6:01 PM EDT

seriously though, perhaps it would be more beneficial to make a case for less of a reduction in cash rewards instead of stamping our feet and demanding a change.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 14 2009 7:24 PM EDT

That's why I asked for a poll. ;)

QBsutekh137 October 14 2009 7:37 PM EDT

dudemus, seriously -- what else are we supposed to do? We stamp our feet because the other alternative (um, LEAVING) is something we don't want to do.

How would you have us react in your perfect world? A lot of us keep bringing it up because we honestly don't know what else to do.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 14 2009 7:45 PM EDT

sut, weren't you the one talking of using the whole number series or something yesterday, yet today you can only see two options...throwing a fit or quitting? ; )

perhaps instead of taking this type of tone:

"Why the drop system MUST DIE a horrible death"

we could try:

could we please reevaluate the amount the rewards were decreased by in regards to the drop system as it seems a bit excessive?

QBRanger October 14 2009 7:59 PM EDT

"could we please reevaluate the amount the rewards were decreased by in regards to the drop system as it seems a bit excessive? "

yes, that has not been tried before.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 14 2009 8:03 PM EDT

i remember a ton of demands to cancel it, but no requests as of yet to tweak the system as it stands.

perhaps i am mistaken though and those requests were just lost in the noise?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 14 2009 8:29 PM EDT

"yes, that has not been tried before."

when has lack of results ever stopped you from trying before ranger? ; )

QBRanger October 14 2009 9:15 PM EDT

Bang you head against the wall too many times and you just stop trying.

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] October 14 2009 9:28 PM EDT


We await, with bated breath, the day.

Godpanda October 14 2009 9:38 PM EDT

Lol.

Bang your head against a wall enough times and you give up. True. But don't expect any sympathy when the doorbell was 3 feet to the left and you never rang :P

To this day, I STILL think the BEST solution to this whole thing is reduce the cost of hiring minions by roughly 20%, of upgrading equipment by somewhere around 5-10% and dropping BA prices a bit. Then, Jon, add something else to the drop system.

A few ideas for additional things that could be granted via drops, to add the "WOO!" element to the game but still reduce the amount of raw CB in the game.

- chance of having your rewards doubled on a given fight by the gods.
- be granted anywhere from 2-25 BA from a random battle, a small percent of the time.
- Granted an extra blackmarket vote
- Randomly upgrade a piece of gear by a small amount (Obviously have a NW limit so a +50 MgS doesn't turn into a +75 in a year or two)
- Give one minion a certain amount of untrained exp extra
- Increase a trained skill of a minion by a small amount
- Small chance of being given a large amount of CB (The idea here would not be to reverse the money reduction, but to give players the feel of winning the lottery)

Speaking as someone who has made ZERO CB from the drops, I LIKE the system. In a basic form. It just needs something to spice it up and needs to stop kicking players who try to save money for ridiculous minion hiring or weapon upgrading in the face.

Lastly, I made a post saying most of this within a week of the change that got four replies. No one responded. You all need to stop whining and try to do something productive. At least try. Then when you fail, you can whine without people like me calling you on it.

QBsutekh137 October 14 2009 9:44 PM EDT

dudemus, I'm not the one who said we are "stamping our feet". That was you.

I always know there's an Option C. Or D. Or E. But options require knowledge. I hear a lot about "waiting to see what Jonathan or NS says..." I'm not seeing anything. That's not an idle comment. I've been around a while. I can say, factually, the responses are fewer and farther between. That's my take.

I didn't make the thread title. But if you think Sickone is some sort of random ne'er-do-well or that Ranger has no idea whence he speaks, then I'm not the one who's limiting options.

Real community members have real issues. And, at best, we get "well, we can't know because we don't know what Jonathan is thinking", followed up by Jonathan giving no idea about what he is thinking. And no, he doesn't owe anyone a thing.

But then why do I owe anything? Why should I have an Option C?

QBsutekh137 October 14 2009 9:47 PM EDT

Godwolf, sorry I didn't respond to your "first post" about all this on your schedule. You truly have it all together, and I, well, do not. I can't tell you how sorry I am.

Godpanda October 14 2009 9:49 PM EDT

Oh, it's fine. I understand. Too busy complaining about the change to try and think of something to make it better.

And too busy trying to find a way to make a snide comment about my post to actually say something about what my post was about. Bravo, sir, bravo.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 October 14 2009 9:50 PM EDT

Back to the topic please.

Wraithlin October 14 2009 9:58 PM EDT

So obviously the 20% reduction in cash made was because the admins felt the community as a whole was already making too much. So rather than just cut us 20% and hope we don't leave, they put in this nifty you might get a random drop every now and then. If you want, I guess we can get rid of the random drops, but i doubt you'll be getting your 20% back anytime soon. Might as well just focus your energy on making a better team rather than trying to get 20% more money back.

QBsutekh137 October 14 2009 9:59 PM EDT

GW, I posted plenty about ratio tweaking, etc. in regards to the drop system.

So, apology?

Godpanda October 14 2009 10:10 PM EDT

Apologize because an individual took a generalization personally? I'm sorry you took it that way, but it was directed towards no one at all in particular, just the people who keep posting about this topic and just demanding it be removed.

I simply remember that post getting so little feedback and said to myself that people are just whining and that no one (other than like 3 people) had anything constructive at the time to say. I'm sure most people ignore my posts, but at the same time, I can't sympathize with them because they consider me a troll.

To try and stay directly on topic, I just don't see why everyone is AGAINST this idea. I mean, is greed really a good enough reason? The change is fine, it's the rest of the game that needs tweaking. Most importantly, in my mind, the hiring costs and costs for upgrading equipment or running an NCB were balanced around having 20% more money. Yes, you slowed everything down with the change, but that doesn't help because NWs were already out of control, in my view.

RaptorX October 14 2009 10:14 PM EDT

I agree, I have started a NCB a few months back and have one drop - a base katana. I can't upgrade my weapons without lots of USD input - which I can"t do anymore. it is just so boring to not be able to buy upgrades and equipment. I spend every dollar earned on rentals for strat experimentation and forging.. well I go to the blacksmith mostly since well most of my gear is elven anyway and I hate waiting for someone else to do it and I don't want to waste BA on forging. I am clueless about earning money in this game. I know fighting earns very little. As crazy as it seems, I wish everyone had the NUB bonus all the time! - it would be much more fun to be able to have some free BA and some money to spend on strat experimentation and gear. I have spent 200 dollars since I began my NCB - so you can understand why I am opposed to spending any more. it is just silly how much it would cost to catch a top 25 spot in this game unless you know ALL the tricks. Before during my NUB a few years back I bought a large character an so had some fun with that.

QBsutekh137 October 14 2009 10:20 PM EDT

GW, good points.

I have been speaking out about NW (in terms of wanting folks to realize big items never go away) for about 3 years now. So I get what you are saying.

I'm still not following your thought on the fact that no one joined in an early bout of disagreement to the drop change. Ranger was against it pretty quick, and then settled into giving it a chance (that's not a bad thing, is it?) Dudemus was a voice of reason, saying we should wait to see. The next big discussion came up about a month later, and then nothing really came up until recently where it has honestly been a month or so between drops. I have only received a katana with approximately the past 6 weeks. I don't actually care, but that is because I am less active these days.

I appreciate your point about wanting to incite active discourse. But how many people are going to want to talk to you when you are calling people whiners and getting angry that folks didn't talk when YOU wanted them to talk. Do you see my point?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 14 2009 10:32 PM EDT

i apologize if i wasn't clear in my initial post regarding the foot stamping. i did include myself in that action by saying stamping our foot and the post was an attack on a mode of communication here in our forums rather than any individual as we have all been guilty of it at times.

i really don't understand why we think it will even work as in my 6+ years of playing i think i have seen jon give in to public pressure once.

sickone does have some good points in his post and i would like to see those stand more on their own rather than be ignored due to the demanding tone of the title.

so one again, can the devs please look at the drop system and see if perhaps we can tweak it as it seems as if we might have lost more than we gained?

Godpanda October 14 2009 10:37 PM EDT

I do. I really do. But I would like to say a few things:

1) I'm not really upset at -this-. It's just frustrating seeing where the forums are the past year or so. It's hard to be civil and to even pretend to be a voice of reason when SO many of the posts I read lately have no rationality to them at all. Not all, by far, but I feel like the ratio is far harsher than it used to be.

2) And honestly? I don't expect anyone to wake up and try to calmly discuss things. And I don't care if people like or dislike me, or respect my opinions. That's pretty childish, but for the same reason they won't talk to me (They think I'm insulting them) why should I care what they think about me when I already have so little respect for their opinions?

Basically, how often do you want the respect of people you no longer respect? Now, that's a bit harsh. I RESPECT everyone on these forums. It just makes it far more frustrating when I see such ridiculous statements made on the forums, and worse, people listening to them. When an adult acts like a child, you don't hate them. You just wish they stopped acting like a kid.

I don't know. I think CB has grown too used to beating dead horses and is growing stagnant (Please, Jon, really, New Supporter Item. Please.) Which lets the community stew over things that really aren't that bad. This change is NOT that bad. People are still making money, just at a slower rate. I imagine quite a few people who want more money would be against having a higher BA pool allowance, even though they'd honestly achieve pretty close to the same thing for most players (More money, more exp, more experimentation, faster upgrades, etc)

I'll stop posting on this thread. I don't want Slayer to have to hit my knuckles with a ruler again :P

Before I go, I'll sum up everything I've said in a few words.

Instead of always looking for the extreme solution, or the boring solution, find a way to spice things up. Jon can think of everything boring alone (Take it away, leave it, change the exact numbers.) If he uses the community at all, it'll be to see things he didn't. He's a smart guy, don't tell him what he must know by now :P

QBsutekh137 October 14 2009 10:37 PM EDT

dudemus, I really do apologize for yet again doing my "bluster then melt" stance... Gah, old dogs and all.

I have seen Jonathan change things. I'd even say "regularly". I recall a "Sutekh was right" thread even when I wasn't right, I was just putting forth what I found to be an inconsistency -- and Jonathan found some merit and changed things far better than I could have imagined.

That hasn't happened in a while. And that's fine, he's a busy man. Things change.

The community changes as well. I have changed. So I'm only posting according to who I am, currently. I'm not trying to demean, or berate, or belittle.

Admin{CB1}Slayer333 October 14 2009 10:41 PM EDT

I can feel the love now.


<3

QBsutekh137 October 14 2009 10:55 PM EDT

Love for you, you sexy tourney administrator!

Sickone October 15 2009 4:39 AM EDT

Well, I suppose I could have chosen as title

"Why the drop system IN ITS CURRENT INCARNATION//VERSION//BALANCE MUST DIE a horrible, painful death before its eventual rebirth as a feasable one"

to be more PoliticallyCorrectï¾™ and/or accurate...
... but then it wouldn't have fit in the space allocated for the title :P

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 15 2009 5:40 AM EDT

"It's just frustrating seeing where the forums are the past year or so"

GW, for your answer, take at look at the Changelog history.

Bar the utterly awesome month of NS's return, CL has been sparse, barely noticable, for well over a year.

Godpanda October 15 2009 12:39 PM EDT

Change is good, m'kay?

QBRanger October 15 2009 1:31 PM EDT

Again,

Change for the sake of change is not always good.

Change that improves things is good.

Change that makes things worse is bad.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 15 2009 5:11 PM EDT

I think you miss the point GW. ;)

There's been hardly any changes made to CB in over a year. We need balance fixes, and new stuff to liven the game up a little.

All we're doing atm is ehashing years old arguements, becuase we have nothing new to sink our teeth into to digest.

That's why there's more conflict on the forums than there used to be.

QBRanger October 15 2009 5:28 PM EDT

GL is completely right.

A small perceived imbalance will be magnified with nothing new to occupy our CB time.

A large imbalance, such as the exbow, will take center stage for a long time.

But I really take issue with this comment:

"Oh, it's fine. I understand. Too busy complaining about the change to try and think of something to make it better."

Almost all of us have have posted in the threads claiming imbalance HAVE given their opinions on how to fix it. Multiple times in fact. To state we all complain without thinking is just very foolish and very demeaning.

And if the proper way to fix something is to get rid of it, then that IS a solution.

Again, why does everything have to be a home run in some people's eyes. Sometimes things really worsen gameplay and need to be gone.

kevlar October 15 2009 5:32 PM EDT

Does it really worsen gameplay or make things less convenient?

QBRanger October 15 2009 5:37 PM EDT

"Does it really worsen gameplay or make things less convenient?"

Great question, without any sarcasm intended :)

If something is less convenient, does it make your gameplay experience less fun? I would think in most cases, yes.

Is having to wait a bit to hire that new minion worsening gameplay? Is having to wait to up your armor/weapons better or worse in the players eyes?

This system IMO is worsening gameplay.

We currently have the NUB which makes things far too easy.

The drop system makes things a bit too hard. I am not saying things should be easy. In fact I hate the N*B for how easy it makes things. But there is a limit on what is normal and what is hard.

IMO, and I guess others agree, this drop lottery is making things way too hard.

Given all the items and NW already out there. To have less rewards makes it very hard to catch up if your not already there.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 15 2009 6:02 PM EDT

i like the drop system and think that it adds to the game in the way novice described.

i also think 20 percent was a bit much and would like to see that set at 10 percent or if the 20 percent is kept see all of the rares spawned as drops and the rare tables tweaked more!

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] October 15 2009 6:07 PM EDT


I like the little "pleased with you" messages!

Admittedly, I haven't done anything with all my free stuff, but neither do I miss whatever rewards I'm being denied.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 15 2009 6:18 PM EDT

Dude, I still don't see CB as item driven enough for it to make that sort of impact.

CB is a growth games without level restrictions.

Not a level capped game where you need new gear drops (that you get excited about for getting, even getting *first*) to progress charactr development.

Getting an item drop isn't a WOW factor unless;

You get one of the Rares that sells for gazillions.
You get an item necessary for your strat, you somehow *don't* already have.

Who gets excited over getting a Kat, or even Adam?

CB is a different type of game. Random loot drops add nothing to it. Aart from starting to divorce 'strategy' from the game by introducing a lottery for cash rewards.

We might as well bring Finger of Death back. Give folk that WOW feeling of killing team mauch larger/powerful than themselves, but getting a lucky, random FoD cast.

kevlar October 15 2009 6:25 PM EDT

See I think gameplay isn't touched, it is just the convenience of how things were to how things are now. I'm not saying I like it (I don't, I can't save hardly any money after buying BA and don't understand how some say they buy BA and still make a mil / week). But I definitely have a different stance on how to approach it. I guess I'm more patient, have more faith in Jon, and get exhausted and sometimes frustrated reading the endless complaining threads these days. (that's just me) But I can't say I don't understand why they are happening.

You have a very different approach to things, Ranger (no sarcasm on my end either)... and you have admitted in a thread I don't remember how long ago... that you believe that sometimes to get change you have to keep complaining to get things done around here.

I personally would just rather the intellect of this forum (never been part of a game where so many players know the nuts and bolts to it... just amazing player base knowledge) keep posting ideas to make things better.. like the current ExBow discussion shift, instead of the constant 'this is crap' dot dot dot. I honestly think there is more reception to those kinds of posts and if Jon wants to roll with any of it he will. I can understand it is frustrating as well, when something is discussed on how to make it better over and over and OVER and nothing is done or said about it... which is why I have always wished Jon would be more vocal with some of the issues if not just for one line saying "This is a good discussion" , "this is something that will not be changed at this point" , "This is a long work under development, please have patience", "I'm very busy and won't be able to address any changes for X time, but keep the ideas coming" ... Jon has so much respect from everyone just something said I think would go light years with how the discussions evolve. Now why it isn't happening? Maybe it's because the threads get diluted with the rest of the other threads, and he doesn't have the time to sit and sift through everything (let alone find all the different threads created on one issue) so maybe there should be a seperate forum that makes it easier for Jon to access/sort through. Call it "Game Suggestions/Ideas".

Again, back to the drop topic, it would be nice if Jon could let us know his thoughts/intentions for the drop sys. are. Knowing the direction that it is going (even if this is it) would quell so many issues than NOT knowing. I really hope this game doesn't turn into a back burner item naming money maker like some have alluded to. That would effect my gameplay.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 15 2009 6:49 PM EDT

The thing is, I can't suggest a good adjustment for the Drop System. I don't think it suits the style of CB at all, and random wealth rewards is anathema to CBs design.

(As for the EXBow, and other related stuff, Sugestions have been made. And made. And discussed, and disceted. And remade. ;) )

lel October 15 2009 7:10 PM EDT

woot! drop value of 2 lessers

kevlar October 15 2009 7:29 PM EDT

Completely understand, GL, which is why I don't think anything will come of anything (not only with this problem) unless Jon starts stepping in more often. So instead of continued bashing of the drop horse (the word is out, and it is known, and everyone knows how everyone feels about it), maybe more requests for explanation, reasoning?

QBRanger October 15 2009 7:43 PM EDT

I too would wish Jon would chime in a lot more.

But that has been the way it is and has been since the beginning of CB1.

And that is one of the most frustrating things about this game.

Godpanda October 15 2009 9:07 PM EDT

I think you miss the point GW. ;)

There's been hardly any changes made to CB in over a year. We need balance fixes, and new stuff to liven the game up a little.

All we're doing atm is ehashing years old arguements, becuase we have nothing new to sink our teeth into to digest.

That's why there's more conflict on the forums than there used to be.


---


Huh? I thought that was my point, and has been for some time.... I could have swear I've been saying we needed change for... Like... Ever. How did I miss the point I myself make constantly? Or did you think my "Change is good, m'kay?" was sarcastic? It wasn't. Change is good.

The REALITY is, there is not FIXING needed. The game is working EXACTLY like it's supposed to. I don't understand why many don't get this... You believe the exbow is too powerful... But that doesn't mean it needs to be fixed. You're asking for a nerf, not a fix. And there is a huge difference.

If there were game breaking bugs running around, yes, fix those first. Obviously. But Jon doesn't (and probably shouldn't) stop looking to add to the game because players disagree on what he calls balanced.

QBsutekh137 October 15 2009 9:26 PM EDT

Wow, that's funny, because he used to did (when he should have).

Again, I've got plenty of examples. But you don't appear to be particularly interested in the truth as others experience it.

Godpanda October 15 2009 9:54 PM EDT

Seriously? Where did I say I didn't want change?

And what do you mean by "Wow, that's funny, because he used to did (when he should have)." I don't understand it. The grammar, or just too many pronouns? I don't know.

RaptorX October 15 2009 9:57 PM EDT

I first played this game a little over 2 years ago, then the NUB bonus wasn't so big or so long. (I understand the top scores change this constantly now) But coming back to the game I expected new minions and gear and new weapons that were now better or worse, but not the huge shifts - much of it may be due to the the drop system. These few items have changed a lot of the balance in the game IMO.
Is it so bad to NOT to get to the top of the game when you are a NUB? It kinda begs for you to keep trying with your character or try a NCB and not miss BA - and fight for the top. Now, I am surprised to see, the NUB players becoming so powerful and actually seem to be running the money portion of the game!! They are the only ones (generally) who have a lot of money to spend. Well - except a few who forge or become expert marketeers. But - my point - Maybe if the NUB wasn't so good, the money issue we are discussing would not be such a big deal. But even so the drop system is really frustrating, since rewards are so low it is very hard to do much, except run a one or two minion team with little gear - which is IMHO -- at best -- boring. What is wrong with four minions?
Guess I should have known it would be expensive to outfit a large team, but I also expected to earn more, and so - in a nutshell - the drop system is killing my strategy ideas! I think it must be racist against 4 minion teams. :) Can I, as a minority, now, um, run for office?

QBRanger October 15 2009 10:03 PM EDT

Sometimes people do not get it.

If the exbow was fine and balanced before, can it not be too broken now?

When money is more rampant. People have 60M to drop into one for a minion. Remember before it was changed, all one needed was x3333 to get maximum drain, not matter your strength or targets hp. Just hit once and it was 100% drain.

Then it was changed, but we have had little time since it to say the change was complete. Well now we can see that is still needs fixing.
It needs to go.

But the one thing we can all seen to agree on is the stagnation of the game lately has been the worst thing of all.

About the drop system, people still hate it 6+ months later. We waited and waited and it still sucks. The "rush" that we were supposed to feel when we got a drop is long passed. Now we just see it harder to buy BA and keep a positive balance. For me, I can buy a million here or there. But what about people who cannot. If they cannot, they will get frustrated and leave. And that is what I do not want.

CB is a special type of game. A strategy game with no real "end". No reset. Some counters to USD influence. The drop system has little to no place in this type of game. With the fixed costs one has during gameplay.

QBsutekh137 October 15 2009 10:36 PM EDT

GW, you said:

"... But Jon doesn't (and probably shouldn't) stop looking to add to the game because players disagree on what he calls balanced."

I said:

"Wow, that's funny, because he used to did (when he should have). "

I apologize if I didn't make the parallels...parallel enough.

GW, you say a lot of things like you know, whether or not you _do_. You don't even ask first. You assume you're right and that no one could possibly have other experiences in similar situations. In the end, you're wrong. There's no other way to put it.

I've seen Jonathan change his mind because of the community, and even because of me. About ten more times often than that, I change MY mind when I see things Jonathan's way. I'm smart, open-minded, and a good critical thinker. That means I don't need to worry or second-guess things, no matter which way they roll.

I've also seen Jonathan approach me for ideas. You can believe that or not. I couldn't care less. Because the difference between your observations and mine is that you're _only_ ranting. You love it, I can see that. I feel the passion. And you're actually a pretty decent writer.

But if you don't care about what anyone else is saying, all the passion and writing skills in the world mean less that nothing.

Godpanda October 15 2009 11:15 PM EDT

GW, you said:

"... But Jon doesn't (and probably shouldn't) stop looking to add to the game because players disagree on what he calls balanced."

I said:

"Wow, that's funny, because he used to did (when he should have). "

I apologize if I didn't make the parallels...parallel enough.

-----

Oh. Okay, I see your point here. But I think it's just a problem with how I expressed what I was thinking.

My point is, Jon shouldn't shut down his own creative processes while reading the thoughts others have the game. Which is what I seem to be seeing in the forums a lot recently. People (in my view) really want Jon to abandon whatever he is doing and address their concerns. Which IS bad.

As you said, Jon came to you to ask for advice. Which is great, I remember myself the time Jon said you were right in a forum post. But that's his choice, him coming the community. The community shouldn't be trying to put blinders on the developers and forcing their view into that the community wants. THAT shuts down on creativity. It kill growth and expansion, because the community lately (once again, in my view) seems to be focusing more and more on "fixing" things and less on adding new things in.

As for the rest of what you said, I can actually agree. I do deal quite often in definites and I do often believe, to the exclusion of all else, that I'm right. But don't let my attitude confuse you. I am reading and trying to understand other's responses, I'm just slow to it. That's my personal flaw. And honestly, I'm not by a longshot the only one on these forums who has some serious flaws and doesn't always read people's responses in threads with as open a mind as they should. And at least I can sit here and admit I've been rude and wrong a lot. *shrugs*

QBsutekh137 October 15 2009 11:56 PM EDT

Heh, as I grow older, I am exactly the same, except I exchange *shrugs* for *smiles* (sometimes sarcastic ones).

You are right, we all have flaws, and it helps, then, to go out of ones way to find common ground, you know?

No, the developers don't owe us something (though even that is debatable in a game where money DOES exchange hands). But that works in both directions. When the community speaks out THIS much, it ceases to be whining. I know of Sickone. Sickone makes a lot of sense, regularly. So does GL. So does Ranger. Hell, even I've been known to make sense on every other Thursday after blue moons on February days beyond the 28th one. That's why I take note when a bunch of such folks get tired of bringing up ideas (which they all have) or waiting to see how things shake out (which they all have). At that point I just say "yeah".

kevlar October 16 2009 12:07 AM EDT

"My point is, Jon shouldn't shut down his own creative processes while reading the thoughts others have the game. Which is what I seem to be seeing in the forums a lot recently. People (in my view) really want Jon to abandon whatever he is doing and address their concerns. Which IS bad."

I agree with this, and defending it has caused me to take a lot of flack. But I think if Jon gives some input more often it will stop a big majority of what is happening.
He shouldn't have to succumb to please the masses, but at least saying "this will not be a consideration for the game at this time" or giving an explanation of his creative process when there is such a big issue at hand would help things so much.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 16 2009 12:26 AM EDT

weekly/monthly dev Q & A with community submitted questions anyone? ; )

kevlar October 16 2009 12:28 AM EDT

^awesome idea. Make a forum for game ideas/suggestions... keep it organized for the dev's to keep track of the thoughts.

Godpanda October 16 2009 12:30 AM EDT

More devs, anyone? :P

kevlar October 16 2009 12:34 AM EDT

weekly I can guess won't happen, monthly possibly...but guaranteed one session at changemonth... and I don't know if a chat session will work, seems like it would get chaotic. What about submitting questions to NS or an appointed Admin and they organize it and Jon picks and chooses what to answer and then we get a post with all of the questions answered? Having a chat session would be cool too, if it could be organized and kept fluid/civil

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 16 2009 3:43 AM EDT

Yeah, sorry GW, misread the tone of that post. ;) foibles of the internet and all that. :P

(It's why I love smilies! >;) )

Godpanda October 16 2009 4:07 AM EDT

Hehe. Sorry, GL. I use all my smilie powers on WoW and in chat. On the forums, I just try to use words. But, apparently, I fail.

MORE SMILIES! =D

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 16 2009 4:15 AM EDT

Heh, I'm an /emote junky on WoW. ;)

FailBoat[SG] October 16 2009 6:13 AM EDT

To quote The Leets, from CollegeHumor.com...


TOO LONG! DID NOT LISTEN!

Burton October 16 2009 7:16 AM EDT

Just got my first crappy drop, it was a Katana. Woot!

Sickone October 16 2009 10:17 AM EDT

"weekly/monthly dev Q & A with community submitted questions anyone? ; ) "

I'd settle for a "changemonth intention editorial" too :P

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 16 2009 10:20 AM EDT

I'd settle for a Changemonth. ;)

Brakke Bres [Ow man] October 16 2009 1:51 PM EDT

how did the exbow get into this thread?

Burton October 16 2009 3:23 PM EDT

Wow
Just got another drop a Steel Familiar.
2 drops in 1 day, Ha!

alaskanpsyko October 16 2009 3:31 PM EDT

seems i came into cb a little late i felt a love for this game..after the drop hit i wasnt gettin much money. although i was an ncb and the bonus isnt that great i was basically limping for gear monies. if i had the chance id go back and do things differently but i cant..currently waiting for this ncb to end and the chance to start a clean slate. i would have loved the drop system if i had the time(and money[BA]) i just didnt. was a good idea just needed more time in the oven before bringin it out to enjoy :).

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 16 2009 3:32 PM EDT

"weekly/monthly dev Q & A with community submitted questions anyone? ; ) "

I'd settle for a "changemonth intention editorial" too :P

clan death by jabberwocky can never be accused of asking too much! ; )

Burton October 17 2009 4:42 AM EDT

From: system Sent: October 16 7:14 AM EDT Delivered: October 16 7:15 AM EDT
Tulkas is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Katana [74x1] (+0). Use it well!

From: system Sent: October 16 3:22 PM EDT Delivered: October 16 3:22 PM EDT
Mandos is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Steel Familiar lvl 20. Use it well!

From: system Sent: 4:36 AM EDT Delivered: 4:39 AM EDT
Varda is pleased with your victory and grants you a A Pair of Gloves of Mercy [0] (+3). Use it well!


This is all in 1 day. Did the system get changed around a little or am I just one super super super super lucky guy?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 17 2009 4:53 AM EDT

Kat and a GoM?

That's not lucky! :P

Burton October 17 2009 5:22 AM EDT

Hehehe
I made have only made about 600k from these 3 drops, but 3 drops in 1 day must be a record. :P
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002trZ">Why the drop system MUST DIE a horrible death</a>