SG and RoBF (in General)


AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 26 2009 4:36 PM EDT

I have been doing some testing especially now that Zangy is hitting me with SG and RoBF. The effective amount damage that SG does when compared with the level trained is 37.25% more or less. I got that from using SG on my tourney char.

I know that Tyriel has brought this up before, but I can now say with absolute certainty that he was right in that RoBF does not reduce SG damage one bit.

I tested this using Zangy against my Team Rocket.

His tattoo is Death to DM level: 9,009,930

Since he is using only SB to boost the DD level that gives him an effective DD of 9,651,439

I get an AMF effect of .13 against him.

His basic max damage should be 3,595,161

After AMF it becomes 3,127,790

He has no leadership effects so that is not part of the calculation.

I have 38 base AC but also have Armor Proficiency so He gets a 19% bonus from that.

My effective AC is 153 against him so that gives a 17.702% reduction against his SG after taking away the reduction for base AC and the proper ratio of SS AC.

After applying both the penalty and the reduction for the armor I get the max damage he can do as 3,063,189 against my RoBF minion if you are not including RoBF at all.

Here are some casts he made:

With RoBF:

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [3011677]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [2666814]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [2655122]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [3013131]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1978004]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1697731]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1695567]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [2454897]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1631550]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1668592]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [2455947]

Without RoBF:

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1816422]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1577184]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1880060]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1908364]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [2544427]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [3054928]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [2788554]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1920523]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [2171367]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [1729989]

Death To DM takes damage from his own Shocking Grasp (183323)!
Death To DM touches Jesse James [2752988]

As you can see the high of the spells when I had RoBF equipped was 3,013,131 and the low 1,631,550. This just about covers the whole spread of 50-100%

The high without RoBF equipped was 3,054,928 and the low was 1,577,184
Yet again this covers just about the whole 50-100% spread.

As you can see the damage ranges are basically the same and it is giving no reduction whatsoever.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 4:42 PM EDT

i don't have the time at the moment to figure out the average damage but am wondering what it is as well.

Rawr October 26 2009 4:48 PM EDT

IMO: Give RoBF a big magic reduction but make RoBF damage retaliable :)

iBananco [Blue Army] October 26 2009 4:59 PM EDT

Says the AS/GA team.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 26 2009 4:59 PM EDT

Def a bug. Do we stil have the Bug Wiki page?

QBRanger October 26 2009 5:05 PM EDT

So a large SG should NOT work well vs the RBF?

So what the hell is good vs it aside from AC?

{Wookie}-Jir.Vr- October 26 2009 5:06 PM EDT

Well to be fair, RoBF damage is pretty low, and AC utterly destroys it. *shrug*

iBananco [Blue Army] October 26 2009 5:06 PM EDT

Dishing out pretty massive amounts of damage.

Rawr October 26 2009 5:14 PM EDT

"Dishing out pretty massive amounts of damage."

Don't tell me thats an actual "counter" to RoBF. I'm fairly certain that "dishing out massive amounts of damage" counters just about everything.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] October 26 2009 5:17 PM EDT

"So a large SG should NOT work well vs the RBF?"

bug posts aren't really about should or should not but rather about how things are stated to work and if they do not work as stated, they are buggy.

robf states it works against all direct damage sans decay. if it is not working against sg then it either needs to be fixed or the documentation needs to be adjusted all depending upon the devs intent for the interactions.

iBananco [Blue Army] October 26 2009 6:29 PM EDT

Oh sorry, I misread Ranger's post. I thought he said "what is SG good for then?"

QBRanger October 26 2009 6:57 PM EDT

I understand it is a bug.

However, SG as it was seemed to be the only way to beat some RBF characters.

When this gets fixed, I would certainly hope the RBF as a whole gets looked at and properly balanced.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 26 2009 6:58 PM EDT

;)

Where's that post of mine about moving on to nerfing the RBF and Jig after the EXBow?

Seems I can tick one off! :P

ResistanZ October 27 2009 4:36 PM EDT

Then after that we can fix the whole RoS GA/AS thing. :D

Wraithlin October 27 2009 4:40 PM EDT

I think my favorite part of the thread is that everyone has started posting all the counters they've had to thier personal strats. Maybe if we keep it going long enough every strat in the game will make it.

I also wonder how long it's going to take people to realize that everything in this game has a counter, which means there will always be something you individually think is unbalanced.

The only time you should get worried is if you're the one sitting there thinking to yourself "this game is balanced just fine, I don't have a problem with anyone else's strat" then you've found the bug that needs to be fixed, it's your strat.

Cube October 27 2009 4:43 PM EDT

I have to say Kudos for the perfect calculations.

ResistanZ October 27 2009 5:22 PM EDT

Wraith, I know. I was being sarcastic. I agree with you. Everything that is effective against peoples' strats is now overpowered and needs fixing..

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] October 27 2009 7:14 PM EDT

Heh. ;) Looks like SG, bugged as it is, is the answer to a question of mine from a while ago;

"Do the VB/ES reduce the Physical Damage Reduction of a ToE any more?

If they do, shouldn't there be a DD that reduces either the reduction of the RBF or MGS?

Ignoring EO and Armour, Physical can get two percentage reductions in ToE and SoC, Magical can get two in the RBF and MGS. Both work out to be quite close in potential reductions.

Physical: 50% and 16% for a total of 58% reduction

Magical: 30% and 39% for a total of 59% reduction

Both using the largest values in game.

Yet for Physical there exists two weapons that can penetrate this reduction. And Magic has nothing of the like in return.

Conversly, if the VB/ES don't effect 'Endurance' any more, they've received a slight nerf, as all the reduce now is AC (which took a hit last change month if you don't train SS)."

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 31 2009 1:13 PM EDT

Bump for NS

Solare October 31 2009 1:18 PM EDT

"When this gets fixed, I would certainly hope the RBF as a whole gets looked at and properly balanced."

The RoBF is not broken. It, as well as the RoS do their job quite nicely. What needs to be balanced are the DD familiars and the ToE.
And maybe just the DD spells of the familiars instead of the familiars themselves...

Wraithlin October 31 2009 1:26 PM EDT

"What needs to be balanced are the DD familiars and the ToE.
And maybe just the DD spells of the familiars instead of the familiars themselves... "

I'd almost agree with you, except I'm only fighting people with 2-3x my MPR, so of course it seems like the familiars are OP. I'm pretty sure that if I fought people my same MPR, my RoBF would be on par with thier familiar damage. That is the damage + bonuses of the RoBF.

A minion who is training a DD at minimum usually goes with 1/4 HP and 3/4 DD, that way you can take some AMF/GA backlash. A familiar goes with 1/4 HP and 1 DD, so it seems like they have an extra 25% worth of damage. However tattoo level only gets up to 67% of max, assuming you didn't buy it, so it's as if the tattoo is doing 1/6 HP and 2/3 DD, for an actual 5/6 or 16.7% less total worth.
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