Retraining Question (in General)


AdminTitan December 4 2009 11:39 AM EST

I remember Jon ?fixing? score lost from retraining by making it relative to score untrained. So, if you untrained 1/10 of your exp, you would only lose 1/10 of your score? I thought you were suppose to gain this score back if you retrained. Are we suppose to get the score back from retraining, capped at our PR of course?(This is mainly directed at Jon/NS).

AdminJonathan December 4 2009 12:01 PM EST

no. it's impossible to predict the "right" score, so we let you get back to the "right" score quickly from actively fighting, without any possibility of abuse.

QBOddBird December 4 2009 12:03 PM EST

That sucks some score out of the system due to fighting back up to the score and others losing. Any chance we could see a decrease in the amount of score drop from a loss? :D

Or was this already done and I didn't know (likely, not been around much)

QBOddBird December 4 2009 12:04 PM EST

Note: the reason I propose this is because that makes retraining give a sort of a double penalty...a penalty to your MPR because of lost EXP, of course, but also a penalty to your challenge bonus because you decrease the score of your targets in regaining your ground.

AdminTitan December 4 2009 12:23 PM EST

Actually Jon, there's room for quite a bit of abuse. Especially in tournaments. Or sabotage in regular CB (Which you seemed to be ok with, but why not have a solution that prevents it?). If I untrained AS (about 40% of my MPR) on my tournament minion, and retrained three times, I effectively only lose less than 3% of my MPR. However, I have lost about 75% of my score. Dropping from near 600k to near 150k. Now, I can farm whoever, lowing their score and ruing their CB. This could be done simply to ruin someone's chances in a tournament. Or, simply out of spite for someone b/c you want their NCB to fail. I feel like their could be a simple fix to this.

AdminTitan December 4 2009 12:30 PM EST

ruining*

AdminTitan December 4 2009 12:30 PM EST

there* also, lol

Sickone December 4 2009 1:09 PM EST

The simplest fix would be to NEVER adjust scores in ANY direction for anything except fighting.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 4 2009 1:36 PM EST

^that would open up exploit by unequipping and untraining and letting smaller characters beat on them with 100 challenge bonus,no?

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 4 2009 1:38 PM EST

or pay a high level single mage to rent and equip a mage shield...cheap with no mpr loss.

AdminTitan December 4 2009 3:14 PM EST

^ This was done and no one threw up a flag dudemus. So this is obviously not the kind of abuse Jon speaks of.

QBRanger December 4 2009 3:21 PM EST

"^that would open up exploit by unequipping and untraining and letting smaller characters beat on them with 100 challenge bonus,no? "

This has already been done on a recent NCB start. At least the unequipping part and retraining as I understand.

And was gladly accepted as good gameplay by the community.

AdminTitan December 4 2009 3:23 PM EST

That's what I was talking about Ranger. Retraining and ruining someone's NCB however, was, and should have been, not taken as well.

QBRanger December 4 2009 3:23 PM EST

What do you mean by ruining someones NCB run?

AdminTitan December 4 2009 3:25 PM EST

I could drain your score through retraining, which in turns lowers your opponents scores, which in turn lowers your CB. Ultimately leading to a terrible NCB if it is done at the lower score levels.

QBRanger December 4 2009 3:28 PM EST

Well given the fact one can abuse the NCB run via someone else untraining/unequipping, the contralateral approach is just as legal.

As was proven in the past when I think it was Sickone doing it.

One cannot have it both ways, only the good abuse and not the bad.

I personally would not like any abuse of the score system but that is just my view on it.

AdminTitan December 4 2009 3:32 PM EST

Sickone was really targeting the community. Almaisky was the example I was speaking of.

QBRanger December 4 2009 3:36 PM EST

Ah,

However, both scenarios are "legal".

AdminTitan December 4 2009 3:36 PM EST

Yeah I know, Jon even explicitly ok Almaisky's.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] December 4 2009 3:54 PM EST

in my opinion, score just needs to be dropped from reward & challenge bonus calcuations and vpr could be used instead. vpr is harder to game and more representative of power.

of course there would have to be some formula modifications with less stringent requirements for 100 percent challenge bonus, but i think it would be better overall.
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