New Feature: Legendize vs Retire (in General)

Wraithlin March 27 2010 1:08 PM EDT

I have an idea to add more players to the target pool, and give people something better to do with the characters they don't feel like playing with anymore:

Legendary status.

Instead of just a retire button, there will be a Lengendize button next to it as well, so you have a choice with your characters, or you can just build Legendary characters yourself.

When you make a character Legendary this is what happens:

1) They move off your active character list forever, you can never bring them back, don't ask the admins, don't hit yes on the "are you sure" screen if you didn't want to do this.

2) They keep all of thier gear equipped as is, however into the auction house a base version of every item is spawned, and the player gets money sent to the first active character on his list. This money is how much he would of gotten if he disenchanted all the items on that character.

3) The Legend's Score, XP, Money never change no matter what.

4) They can still be attacked.

5) When attacked and they win or draw instead of them gaining money and XP for it, that money and XP is sent to your active characters. It is split evenly amonst all active characters you have.

6) A legendary leader board is created with brackets based on MPR level. For each bracket of maybe a 500k MPR spread it lists the top 5 legends by score, top 5 by time to get to the bracket, top 5 by wins after becoming a legend. That way you can try to get your name solidified forever somewhere, or at least until 5 people beat you.

Wraithlin March 27 2010 1:09 PM EDT

This would also allow you to build farm characters, that are for the entire community. As the score will never change you don't even have to worry about that. However you will have no way to ever undo the farm process so everyone forever and ever will be able to use him.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 27 2010 1:11 PM EDT

i like this idea quite a bit and it fits well enough what i have been wanting for years, a way to add some npc teams.

i would even go so far as to say do this and get no money or xp but just allow any xp they get to follow a training set that you set up before turning them legendary.

it would be neat if the person who made the character legendary would still show up on it somewhere for posterity. you may have stated that and i just missed it in the post though.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 27 2010 1:12 PM EDT

furthermore, we might as well do this as the character market is non-existent these days.

Wraithlin March 27 2010 1:14 PM EDT

You can add a section to your player screen next to or above retired characters that is Legend characters.

Plus all Legendary characters when inspected will still show you as thier owner/creator whatever.

AdminTal Destra March 27 2010 1:15 PM EDT

5) When attacked and they win or draw instead of them gaining money and XP for it, that money and XP is sent to your active characters. It is split evenly amonst all active characters you have.

thats broken

i would legendize my big characters and only have 1 active char

then i just sit and wait for xp and money to roll in

Wraithlin March 27 2010 1:21 PM EDT

Exactly the plan Tal.

It would be yet another form of deciding how to get to the top of the active character list.

Do you keep running your current character? or you do legendize him and start over with a new character and gear and hope for good returns from his battles?

You are never guaranteed to be attacked when you legendize a character and if you make him too good, nobody will ever fight him, especially high up since it won't be in a clan, and making low level legend characters although they will get more wins will only net you small rewards per win.

I intended it as a long term addition to the fight for the top for the game, but hopefully this will be more fun than just trying to make sure you spend all of your BA everyday for 4 years.

Sickone March 27 2010 1:52 PM EDT

The idea SOUNDS cool on paper, at first read, but will very soon lead to a complete disaster due to insanely powerful inherent abuse potential... say, for instance, creating a "farm" of insanely high score but easily beaten characters (that could at least occasionally draw).
Also, everything that promotes the "throw-away" mentality is bad form from the get-go.

Just because something sounds cool doesn't mean it WOULD be good if implemented.

[RX3]Cotillion March 27 2010 2:27 PM EDT

I like this idea. At first glance, the xp and money being diverted to your active character seems broken, but think about it. Who is going to constantly lose to the same character? If you are trying to find bigger targets, you usually fight them a few times to see if you win or lose and put them on your list accordingly.

It seems like the whole idea behind the Legendary characters is to set up more targets for people to fight against. I am not completely sure, but the experience a regular character gets for his opponents losing to him isn't a lot so I can't see how the xp and money added to your new active character could possibly be broken. I think that allowing the Legendary characters to also transfer the rewards they gain from losing would be a little better.

One more problem that would probably occur is most of these characters being a cookie cutter strategy. I am not good at strategies, but I know that there are certain ones that can be effectively run with very low NW. Aside from the cool factor of having a top 5 legendary character, the rewards would probably not be enough of an incentive to lose 50% of your total NW.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 27 2010 2:39 PM EDT

3) The Legend's Score, XP, Money never change no matter what.

150% broken. Such a thing should never be done. All you need is like 5 people to go setup some super farms like single mages or enchanters with a base MgS on them when they get legendized. From that point on and FOREVER, everyone can farm just those characters for the whole of early game.

Just say they do it at like 5 or 6 mil score. Guess what, the minimum score for people is now whatever they legendized those chars at because EVERYONE can beat them.

Zenai [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 27 2010 3:12 PM EDT

If tweaked properly I think this would be a very good addition to the game. Come up with a few more variations Wraithlin.

Others that are commenting I would say come up with your own versions of this as well. Teamwork can make this happen ladies and gentlemen put a bit of work in and you will get more out of it.

Something is bound to click and be a good fit for the game on a short,mid, and long term basis and be beneficial to everyone.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 27 2010 3:29 PM EDT

Just let score be able to change and it will work more or less. I think it should probably be limited to 5 or maybe 10 active retired characters though. If there is no limit there is no reason not to make 100 low level farms throughout the low MPR levels then another 100 through the low to mid range and then run an ncb for the top. Once you have 200 farms to help increase exp, even if only half of them get fought once in a day that is an extra 100 BA worth of exp per day.

Salketer [big bucks] March 27 2010 3:54 PM EDT

As the others stated, the score cannot remain static... I would suggest some tweaking to the score gains/losses a legend gets. Let's say something like half regular loss and double gains? That way MgS farms will get the low score they deserve and since the owner cannot touch the character anymore, it would help a get set-up remain at a somewhat good score.

Salketer [big bucks] March 27 2010 3:54 PM EDT

*get = good

Mythology March 27 2010 5:34 PM EDT

I think the character should have to be within the say top 100 of something, otherwise not much of a "legend".

Also think the equipment stuff may also have to be modified, really doesnt make any sense, take for example two options :

1) Strip the character of items, send to your main and retrain the char.

2) Keep the character as is, lose the items and only get 50% of the NW you spent.

Kinda obvious which option one would take... Infact the more think about this idea, the only way I could see it being workable is if it were to become part of my reincarnation idea, at which point it would be a very good idea :)

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] March 27 2010 8:00 PM EDT

To fix the score issue, i.e. not have someone with pure AS and a mage shield, why not have the team required to defeat one of 4 or so characters, known as judges, that are using decent balanced strats.

So say you want to legendize your character and you click Legendize. Then it would ask if you want to be tested; you click yes. Then it says you lost to 3 of the judges and beat one click yes to continue to become a legend. Then you click yes and it read you all your rights and asks if you are sure with maybe a few more yeses and right readings before finally letting you become a legend.

This Would also make sense since they are trying to become a legend and without beating one of those four judges they are not really worthy. Would also prevent people from creating tons of small teams and makes it more prestigious. Could even have rankings of legends in that fashion. I.E. ones that beat only one judge to ones that beat all the judges. Rewards from defensive wins could also be greater for beating more judges.

The only thing I can't figure out is how tattoos would play a roll in all this. No one is going to give up their tattoo and making it stay on the character seems like a bad idea.

Salketer [big bucks] March 27 2010 9:57 PM EDT

I like the judge idea... But I don't think it would be a bad thing to have teams at low MPR too. I think there should be judges in different MPR brackets?

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] March 27 2010 10:28 PM EDT

I guess that could work too...I just feel that having a title of a legend should mean more than just a month or two of playing with that character.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] March 27 2010 10:29 PM EDT

I would call it more like commissioning.

Zenai [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 27 2010 11:30 PM EDT

The only thing I can't figure out is how tattoos would play a roll in all this. No one is going to give up their tattoo and making it stay on the character seems like a bad idea.

I admit EoD has a GREAT point here! I would absolutely NOT give up my Tat for any status of my Char! It took far too much to get it to where it is now.

Maybe if the only way to get Legendary status you had to go through an Admin. Upon a successful trial the Admin could "Make" a Tat of the same kind and level for your Legendary Char. To level this out for the Stats and stuff if there was a way to cut their stats out of the Standings, Attributes and Max Tat.

Just a thought.....

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] March 27 2010 11:34 PM EDT

slap a base tat on them of the type you want and have it work at max tat level, that should help make them legendary!

Wraithlin March 27 2010 11:39 PM EDT

I have read over all the responses and came up with a couple ideas to address issues.

First: there should be a percent MPR cutoff that if someone beats your character below it, your legendary character can no longer be attacked. Let's put it at 75% right now.

So with this you can't actually make farm characters since the first time someone with less than 75% of your MPR beats you, the character is no longer attackable.

Second: With regards to tatoos, yes nobody wants to redo a large tattoo just for the sake of a legendary team. However there has to be some tradeoff for keeping a large tat with the team so how about adding a new item to the game called the blank tattoo. You get a blank tattoo of the exact same level as whatever the level of the tattoo is that you just put with the legendary character. A blank tattoo can now be turned into any tattoo at the ink shop, but it loses say 5% or 10% total XP when you do this change. After that it's a normal tattoo again.

Third: The lowest Legendary bracket is 500-1mil MPR, so you can't spam low level legends to gain a bunch of income.

Fourth: If your legendary character gets knocked out of the top 5 spots for all categories of your bracket, you also become unattackable and therefore not gaining benefits. So you don't get these rewards forever, just as long as it stays as one of the best characters in your bracket, which means it's more of a small reward for good planning instead of something you can just spam out.

Please keep letting me know what you think.

Admiralkiller [Cult of the Valaraukar] March 28 2010 12:34 AM EDT

I like it but it has it's draw backs..the farming factor is a bit of a problem...perhaps have a limit or even a scale so by having 43 farms is not different from 10 (or hardly noticable)....or maybe by a cpl gold a day

Sickone March 28 2010 8:00 AM EDT

Wraithlin, I don't want to be offensive here just for the sake of offending, this is just an observation, not an insult... do you ever sit and think about any of your ideas, or do you write them into posts the split second they come into your mind ?
Just to really make sure we do not have a misunderstanding, this was not meant as an insult, just merely as an observation.
You do react relatively well to feedback, but your reaction to it is again the same way, if one problem is pointed out, you come up with a "fix" for it that kind of ignores everything else while focusing on just that very specific issue.
Simply put, you seem to be completely unable to "see the big picture", and you dart between disparate issues with lightning speed. Again, not meaning any of this to be insulting, just wondering, but have you considered you might have a mild case of ADHD and seek treatment ?

Back to the issues and their proposed "fixes".

Don't think you noticed, but characters even below 50% MPR tend to occasionally beat just about any other character. There is almost always a strategy that will be able to beat a large character using a smaller character in a single fight, and if you include multiple-tapping, it's possible with far less.
So, if you implement a "if beaten by a character under 75% MPR it goes out", then you might as well simply retire the characters instead, because that's going to happen sooner rather than later. Make that 50%, and you probably won't have changed much except how long until it goes out.
Make that 25%, and you might STILL have a problem with multiple-tappers (and believe me when I say intentionally knocking out another person's income source is a thing some people the target annoyed in the past would actually pay to see done), so again, eventually, it goes out.
The only alternative would be to do something like "if beaten by a character under X% of MPR, make char un-attackable for Y minutes"... but then again this still makes intentional score-milking possible, and then whatever non-legendary target milked the score can be used as target practice, so you haven't closed much of a security gap.
You can either set that rule so ridiculously forgiving as to not matter at all if you set it or not, or you can simply forget anout the whole mechanic altogether.

As for the "legendary bracket spam" - have you considered the fact score would spamflate like mad immediately after introducing this mechanic ?
Because you can be sure people WILL be setting up "score farms" for their own and their friend's benefit, and they will be usable by everybody else too - if it's beneficial to everybody, almost everybody WILL be doing it.
As soon as scores keep swelling up like mad, the top MPR echelons will start concentrating that score more and more, and the top MPR will be getting a radically accelerated growth (above linear for maybe the first time), while at the same time the lower ranks would also find it very easy to grow early on, especially with a NCB, reaching your proposed 500k-1 mil treshold would be ridiculously easy.
If you select a certain mixed MPR, that would be hilariously useless, if you go with a MPR % of top MPR, that's not much good either, since the top MPR keeps increasing, and increasing faster after this goes live. You might as well put in a "can only legendize one character per month" instead, it would be more or less just as effective.

Let me say it again : this whole approach SOUNDS cool, on paper, at the start.
But if you sit for a few minutes and think about it, the abuse potential (no matter how you try to limit it) is staggering.
You can either make it an attractive thing (in which case, everybody will try to abuse it to its full potential, and we can only GUESS as to what that full potential will be), or you can make it non-attractive for abuse (in which case, it won't be attractive for normal use either, so you might as well not bother having it at all in the first place).

Long story short : bad idea, no matter how you look at it.
Please give your ideas more than a cursory glance, and think about how they might affect the game as a whole, as opposed to just how cool they sound for the user in question.

Wraithlin March 28 2010 2:47 PM EDT

Yes I think about this stuff alot, probably alot more than you did coming up with this post. This specific idea has been over a month in the making, but as I am only one person it's not perfect until I get feedback and stuff.

I see your point with score inflation, easy fix though:

No score changes from attacking Legend characters, it is only used to determine rewards.

As for the problem with setting up farms, we've already talked about ways to get rid of farm characters. I agree the idea of removing someone who gets beat won't work. However if you keep the idea about removing the ability to attack legend characters that are no longer on any of the top 5 categories for thier brackets then farm characters will easily be removed after a couple months or so.

Thanks for the feedback.
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