Potential fix to unbalanced fight system (in General)

TheShazbot August 8 2010 12:31 PM EDT

Instead of an otherwise balanced strategy, we have players who farm 1 or more people for 125+ battles a day merely for their own gain, and to the detriment of others.

I'm requesting a fight limit system so someone can't be farmed into the ground. See: Sal and Lord Bob's battle list for reference.

People should be keeping a somewhat balanced strategy overall, not something that targets ONE vulnerability, but ends up being open to almost every other strat out there.

Zippy August 8 2010 12:36 PM EDT

I vote no on prop 42. Reason being, I can only get 6 people in my fight list that are in a clan. I am forced to attack these 6 people 100s of times per day. I do not want to but I want to be beneficial to my clan. Changing to a can not farm rule would be silly for those like me in the mid mpr zone. That is all.

Soxjr August 8 2010 12:37 PM EDT

How does that add to choice in the game? You are trying to limit peoples choices. If a person doesn't want to get farmed by that specific person that many times, then change. If a person wants to run a one person fight list or a two person fight list, then why should you stop them? Like I said in chat, if womp wasn't hitting sal so many times, others would. His total amount of battles against him in the last 24 hours is about normal for a person of his score. So every time womp hits him he is dead and therefor someone else can't hit him.. What I'm trying to say is if womp wasn't hitting him someone else would be. His total battles against would be about the same. So where are you fixing anything?

Solare August 8 2010 12:38 PM EDT

I agree to this. It's an abuse of game functionality to farm few people for over 100 fights a day, especially if you can defeat more than 6 people.
I understand the purpose of farming for the sake of NCB and NUB in gaining the highest possible challenge bonus. Afterward, however, when strength is attained, there is no longer a reason to farm people to that extreme.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] August 8 2010 12:41 PM EDT

Why is there no longer a reason to continue? If you continue after your n*b ends then you can grow faster than the other people and eventually pass them up. That's what this game is about. Competing with other people.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 8 2010 12:45 PM EDT

people who specialize are themselves vulnerable...that is choice.

people who are in clans will be fought a helluva lot...that is choice.

fight limits would remove choices and would also remove people having to watch when they use their own ba to keep from truly being farmed.

true farming is when you are attacking someone while they are also using ba. you can attack them much faster and get many more battles against them due to the fact that they heal each time they fight. fighters must watch their recent battle list to assure that they aren't being farmed and usually when you see incredibly high numbers it is because they weren't being careful about their own fighting.

Solare August 8 2010 12:52 PM EDT

Perhaps I should have stated, there is no longer a reason to continue if you no longer attain challenge bonus; and even so it is very petty and a manipulation of game mechanics to farm someone into the ground. If you consider yourself a rude obnoxious and advantageous person, then by all means, continue. As, like I said before, if you no longer have to fight only a few people, and you're above the 6/10 mark, there is no longer a reason to do so.

Womp August 8 2010 12:52 PM EDT

There's no reason to run a balanced strategy when you're in a time (N*B) that exists for the purpose of maximizing growth.

Womp August 8 2010 12:56 PM EDT

I would also like to note that I am definitely not the only one seeing significant benefits from my tactics.
You said it yourself, Cy- you've seen a 10%+ CB boost since I retrained.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 8 2010 12:57 PM EDT

"there is no longer a reason to continue if you no longer attain challenge bonus"

what about good ole clan warfare?

what about spending some of your clan points to purchase rituals to make yourself a less appealing target?

tools have recently been added that give us more options than ever for fighting this and in effect more choices.

TheShazbot August 8 2010 1:12 PM EDT

While it does benefit me directly, I still think it's wrong and should be controlled.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 8 2010 1:26 PM EDT

Removing a historical part of the game and one of the few places where spending more time yields better results isn't a good idea. If you don't like someone attacking you, adjust.

Zenai [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 8 2010 1:47 PM EDT

Instead of an otherwise balanced strategy, we have players who farm 1 or more people for 125+ battles a day merely for their own gain, and to the detriment of others.

That is the Very Nature of this game so in short are you kidding? Bottom Line you have to beat up someone to get your Rewards what does it matter who and how many? The Game only cares about #s Cyc plain and simple.

It's an abuse of game functionality to farm few people for over 100 fights a day, especially if you can defeat more than 6 people.
As, like I said before, if you no longer have to fight only a few people, and you're above the 6/10 mark, there is no longer a reason to do so.

This is what True Competition is about in the Long Run Solare. Your MPR Growth doesn't give a rats patootie what your fightlist #'s are what it does care about is the rewards attained and it reflects just that in the MPR Rankings regardless of N*B Status or lack thereof.

Many have had the position that once the N*B is over that there place is then sealed, that is a load of hogwash if I have ever heard it. As had been pointed out on many occasions Nat and I have moved up in the MPR Rankings, for that matter so has nov so if you think that it no longer matters then you have missed the point.

MPR is JUST as important if not more so than without a bonus and the main reason why is you do not get an excess or extra of anything to buffer your growth. So in short you cannot afford to miss out on valuable Experience Rewards just to make someone else happy by not doing what they determine as being rude.

Now not to say I do not think that something should be done to provide more Targets, honestly it would be nice to have more targets not just for low to mid range MPRs but also the higher ones, it does get extremely boring hitting the same players over and over again. However, what I am saying is that trying to limit what is an actual function of the game because it seems rude is plain out poppycock. If this is not something you wish to do then that is a personal choice but trying to impose such on another person/player is oppressing their choices and should not be tolerated.

Just my opinion on the subject. Onto other things now..............

AdminNightStrike August 8 2010 5:17 PM EDT

Why's it matter if people attack you a lot? Score is meaningless aside from looking cool. CP, now that's a separate issue. That's clan warfare.

Solare August 8 2010 9:31 PM EDT

Competition does not have to be cut-throat, and one can be successful without focusing on just a few targets.
That was my point. The competitive scheme of things I understand, and the MPR growth after the N*B I can see fairly clearly. I was simply giving my own reasons for agreeing with this post. If I'm alone in these thoughts, I could care less.

AdminQBnovice [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 8 2010 9:32 PM EDT

It doesn't have to be, but it often is, and that's half the fun.

Zenai [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 8 2010 10:53 PM EDT

Competition does not have to be cut-throat, and one can be successful without focusing on just a few targets

As nov so eloquently pointed out no it doesn't have to be but more often than not is. The reasons can be and usually are necessary for whatever the path is to success. Cutting off that path is taking a choice away which in some if not most cases is the only path that could have been taken without drastic changes. I also have to say what is competition without the angles, the hardcore breaks and insanely tough choices? Without these I would say that it is no longer competition and we all should go play patty cake.

Now don't get me wrong this not an attempt to attack anyone, their ideas or thoughts but these are mine and just as others have voiced thiers I have voiced mine.

Wraithlin August 8 2010 11:30 PM EDT

I don't see the problem with attacking someone alot....why is there a discussion about this?

If you're getting farmed by someone lower MPR than you and you don't like it, you have the MPR to adjust and not allow them to farm you anymore.

If you're getting farmed by someone higher MPR than you then they aren't getting a good CB and you should just smile and realize you're growing faster than they are and will eventually return the favor.

If they are the same MPR then they just have your strat beat, switch if you can/want to, or just focus on hitting all people higher than you so you can still pass them up.

Lord Bob August 8 2010 11:57 PM EDT

I'm requesting a fight limit system so someone can't be farmed into the ground. See: Sal and Lord Bob's battle list for reference.
I don't mind being farmed a lot. It's the nature of the game: maximize your challenge bonus for fun and profit. I've done it to lots of people, and I'm ok with someone doing it to me.

I vote a resounding no on your proposal.

QBOddBird August 9 2010 3:18 AM EDT

I agree that specialization is a valid aspect of CB gameplay, and disagree with the concept of making fundamental gameplay alterations based on a bad case of butthurt.

QBJohnnywas August 9 2010 3:32 AM EDT

What's wrong with being cutthroat about your fighting? If you can beat somebody, and they give you good rewards and good CPs, or even if it is just fun to beat them then why not?

For a game about fighting it's surprising how much of our discussions over the years have been about fairness...

Sickone August 9 2010 5:02 AM EDT

You're forgetting about the most effective means of making others no longer even want to attack you (really effective only if you're in 6/20, could work in 7/20 to some degree, not advisable for those below)...
...destroying your own score and removing all high-score opponents from your regular fight list.

Hey, the OTHER guys want a high challenge bonus, so if you're no longer an attractive target, they won't hunt you anymore... pretty simple, no ?
What do you mean you'd get lower rewards yourself ? Well, yeah, OBVIOUSLY you would, but then again, why should you get to focus on high-challenge opponents while others don't ?

Don't like multiple attacks on you, lower your score by fighting less powerful opponents.
Or accept that the price of performance is other performance-seekers will hunt you down if they can.
You can't eat your cake and still have it afterwards.

Wraithlin August 9 2010 6:37 AM EDT

Or the simpliest thing, although the most tedious is just to study the fightlist of the person farming you, find out when he normally spends BA. Then you just plan to be online after he already spent his BA. It doesn't actually stop him from fighting you, but it does make it so your score is lower and he can't farm you while you spend your BA.

Zenai [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 9 2010 9:39 AM EDT

Wraithlin: I believe the point was sheer volume of fights rather than the time of said fights.

Wraithlin August 9 2010 9:41 AM EDT

yeah, i understood, i was just giving suggestions for lessening it.

ScrObot August 9 2010 7:14 PM EDT

Am I the only one that finds it amusing that Cyclonic has 2 targets he's "farmed" for 125+ battles in the past day? (=

TheShazbot August 9 2010 7:20 PM EDT

If ya can't beat them, join them.

BootyGod August 9 2010 9:18 PM EDT

I would simply like to comment on something Dudemus' said.

Not being in a clan is, indeed, a choice. Much like whether or not you should use Giant Strength on your team, or try Bloodlust to use with an ELBow. You can also run an archer without lots of CBD and a mage with 400 million into a pair of NSCs.

The point is that pretending that being in a clan is a simlpy choice is just wrong. Choosing to not be in a clan is also a choice to not compete at all in the higher levels of the game, to not make the most of your BA/NCB/NUB and to not be able to keep up with those around you.

Indeed, is it really much of a choice at all? Or has being in a clan become so much more a matter of whether or not you can stay positive?

And this whole thing stems from the same thing that has bothered me for quite awhile. That CB is, in actuality, two games in one.

You have the game that most people think of CB as, whether or not they play it. The game with hundreds of millions of CB (And this isn't a USD issue. There are plenty of ways to get huge piles of cash without USD) where you change strategies freely, purchase equipment you need at the levels you need it. Where you have tattoos for inking. Where you rarely miss BA and always get a large bonus from your clan. These are the competitive players.

Then you have the other game. The very, very boring, choiceless game. You don't have CB, so to really get the most for your very low MPR, you have to go magic. And you have to decide how many minions you want at the very start, as you'll never have millions of CB to spare on a hire later.

The game where you have one set of equipment period and your strategy changes will be based around it, not your equipment around your strategy. You can't be in a clan because you're just not playing enough to stay positive when getting hit for 2-3k CP.

You're simply forced, by your desire to not spend every moment of your life on this game, to play a dumbed down, less dynamic version of CB.

And the people in the first group pretend that the 2nd group is just as fun. But it's not. Because CB doesn't reward players who play a lot. It simply punishes and limits those who don't. And, for the record, 99% of new players fall into the 2nd ground. No wonder they quit. Who wants to play a game where you're looking at LEAST a 6 month wait before you can get any depth of the game at your disposal?

I've sort of went off subject here... But it ties in to this:

Let non-competitive players stay in clans. Find -some- way to reduce the impact of being farmed. People shouldn't loose access to the game because they play it less. Let competitive players keep their 12% bonus. And let everyone else stay in a clan, bonus or not.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 9 2010 9:24 PM EDT

i think being in a clan is more of a choice than ever. our clan is number five for the year and over the last year we have seen our bonus dwindle from always being over 12% to now bouncing all around from 2 to 14 percent or so. the reason is that with so few new players fighting at the bottom and making more of the inactive clans show up fewer clans are getting a bonus.

there were also quite a few teams, and thus clans, retired due to the tournament score drain.

it may be different for the top four clans but my experience is that the clan bonus is now less of a factor of competition than it has been since being implemented.

Womp August 9 2010 9:37 PM EDT

"You're simply forced, by your desire to not spend every moment of your life on this game, to play a dumbed down, less dynamic version of CB."

While I agree that the game should provide more for those without the desire to invest significant effort in it, I think it's rather silly to complain that you enjoy a game centered around PVP competition less when you put less effort into it.
Like many things in life, the enjoyment you get out of something is proportional to the energy you put into it. A novice snowboarder (or one that has been in the sport for a long time, but only goes a few times each winter) is going to spend a lot of time on the ground and falling. He won't look cool and his butt will hurt. The same concept applies here.
If you're not willing to put as much time and effort into CB as the more dedicated members, you can't expect to have as much money, or strategy options, or as successful of a clan.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] August 9 2010 11:25 PM EDT

Here is the suggestion I have brought up a few times about competitive and non competitive players. You need a way to allow both to have their place.

My idea is that we scrap the current setup of 6-10 ba regen being based on MPR. Instead you add in a new bonus. This bonus would start out at say 17%. Your current regen rate is 10 ba per 20 min and your ba caps at 160 ba.

You would have to ability under settings to choose what your ba regen and ba cap will be from a group of choices. Each ba regen you go down drops the bonus by 2% and each 10 you add to the ba cap drops the bonus by 1%. At the lowest setting you would have 6 ba regen and a ba cap of 250 and you would get no bonus while fighting. At this rate it would take 14 hours to hit the ba cap.

You can change your ba cap and ba rate at any time but it would only take effect at cache flush to prevent abuse of the system.

This would allow non-competitive players to still have a pretty good position in the game while giving the ability for players to be more competitive.

Admindudemus [jabberwocky] August 9 2010 11:31 PM EDT

how would clan points and bonuses as well as cost of ba be determined?

Womp August 9 2010 11:35 PM EDT

Make it so you only get CPs for up to the amount of BA you would get from 6/20 + buyable at 6/20.

Zenai [Cult of the Valaraukar] August 10 2010 12:00 AM EDT

Nat: This still falls into the gray area with the two groups that GW mentioned. Even for this they would still exist. The general concept is awesome but the actual implementation would not change the situation. Maybe with a few tweaks this would be a prime change :-D

Shadow Ruler August 10 2010 1:21 AM EDT

If you have the patience to wait until that * is gone you have every right to farm someone to the ground. :)
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