An idea to fix the early clan game! (in General)

Why not do away with:

non clan targets = 2
clan targets not receiving a bonus = 4
clan targets receiving a bonus = 6

And instead

non clan targets = 6
clan targets not receiving a bonus = 6
clan targets receiving a bonus = 6

Yep you read that correct, everyone will be a 6 point clan target. The people that fight the most battles SHOULD have the most clan points. I should not be penalized for fighting non clan targets when I am working harder than 90% of the 6/20 regen zone, just to catch up to them. Thoughts, idea's?

I'm in support of this.

i think the goal of the current score structure is to encourage clan warfare and make being in a clan competitive. it also forces people to choose between a target with a great challenge bonus or clan targets.

your idea would actually remove some choices we have in the game as well as eliminating clan warfare entirely.

The concept takes Clan Fighting away for the most part and just makes it rewarding to be in a clan and fight. The Special feeling I get from Fighting head to head against A clan will no longer be there.

I would do it like this:

Unworthy Target: 2
Worthy Target: 4
Unworthy Clan Target: 2
Worthy Clan Target: 4
Worthy Clan Target with a Bonus: 6

*Unworthy Targets are more than 1 Mil - 1.5 Mil Networth Difference
*Worthy Targets are less that assigned above


Just my opinion

That. Should read MPR Difference*

i like pr better! ; )

Dudemus: Enough is already affected by PR let's not add Clan Points to that list please. Besides NW/PR should not be what makes the maarker for CPs. MPR should be that marker to be honest. This is why I set it up the way I did, to keep ppl @ mils of MPR difference from hitting lesser MPR ranges without a penalty. The points just shouldn't be the same if you hit someone in your own MPR rang then go and hit somone 1/10th your MPR.

I am in support of zenai's tweaks.

He took my idea and made it better. Anything that will increase clan participation will only be healthy for the game. :)

i agree and just take it further and say the exact same thing in regards to net worth.

rewarding people for doing more with less in my mind encourages a focus on strategy much more so than rewarding people for their willingness to spend usd.

Kefeck - Sorry, your idea doesn't fly

Zenai - That's way hard to do atm :)

What about deleting the dead clans and increase the progressive CP system we already use? We can make the top 2 teams worth 6 points, the next two teams worth 5 points, then 4, 3, etc.

We'd still have clan competition, and the smaller clans wouldn't get farmed into the hole for being worth 4 points. When they're only worth 2, people will be more inclined to drop them from their lists. We might even get more people to join clans since they'd be less likely to disband, get frustrated, and give up clan fighting.

Zen's idea of adding non-clan targets will certainly add to the pool of targets (which is currently a pretty shallow pool in some clan score areas), but I don't see it increasing the number of clan members.

You are not now or ever gonna kill the USD Expendurature in this or any other game so bottom line let it go bro that ship has sailed or enough is enough if you like.

NS: I figured it would be hard to do since everyone would have to have a MPR Comparison Marker to determine a Worthy/Unworthy Target and the tie it into CPs. Still though I think it a more fair way to go in the Clan System than what we have now. Honestly I always felt it to be incomplete the way it is.

whoa trigger! i cannot see where you got that from what i stated above. surely there is some continuum with a focus on strategy at one end a focus on usd expenditure at the other.

for the end game now the slider is at the usd end. all that i suggested would just move it a bit towards strategy. in effect people can still throw money at the game and do quite well however someone using less nw and doing well with it might catch up instead of being left behind as they are now.

Hey... I resent the fact that I am supposedly being left behind right now &_&

Darn skippy, it really gets on my nerves that ppl think that just because someone uses USD that they automatically know nothing about strategy or that they automatically own CB as a result. It's a total crock if they think so. Unfair advantage....what a joke. You just get a boost up to the next level of troubles plain and simple there is no need to curb it, it's already curbed by the mechanics in place.

Horsepucky if you think that continuum should be the Clan Points bro. NW/PR Rules Everything Else leave the Clans out of it is what I am saying. Now if this were for something else say Exp or Cash rewards then go for it I support it, for CPs not a snowflakes chance in an erupting volcano.

That is my standpoint and I'm sticking to it.

There's a reason there's a limit on purchasing MPR (through minions and/or BA).

I've never understood why there isn't the same for NW...

B/c it's stupid GL, stupid stupid stupid. If you base a game around USD restriction it becomes stupid. People who have more should get to use more! Why do I think this? B/c there are those of us who worked hard to get a large amount of NW without USD, through hitting a lot of their BA, leveling tats and spending their money wisely. Don't penalize those who rely on NW b/c of USD spenders.

OT: I see no problem with the current clan system, could it be tweaked a little, yes. But, it should not be on top of the list IMHO.

i would take any mechanism that i can get at this point! i care little for what it is.

zen, why do you support the idea for mpr differences determining clan point rewards? that is just as far removed from clan fighting as net worth or pr would be, no?

GL: There is it is called ENC.


Let's let this have its own thread GL and dudemus this is about CPs ad how they should be accrued. This argument does not belong here.

Titan, I'm confused.



Why would USD restriction be stupid, if as you say, you've based yourself around working hard in game, without USD spending?

Be that as it may, there are ways in game to work hard and maximise your MPR gain (wise targetting, defensive wins, etc). But it's limited.

There's only so much MPR you can gain, no matter what you do. Due to BA being capped.

There is *no* such restriciton on NW gain. And outside USD influcence skewes that further.

This, I've never understood. It's bad design that will always focus more emphasis on cash (however you gain it, with USD being the 'easiest' route, but by no means the only one) over chracter.

Imagine a CB where there's no limit on purchased BA.

OK, back on track.

The free BA form the NUB is far worse for farming and CP generation (or raher the BA cost for NCBs is far to limiting for competitive Clan play) than the actual amounts or who you get them from.

That sohuld be addressed first.

Not really dudemus. The idea is if I hit a weak target should I get as many CPs? If I fight a worthy foe then I should be rewarded. If I hit an unworthy foe I should be penalized.


There is already a penalty for this in the regular rewards program I felt it should be instilled in the Clan System as well.

GL: If you look closely at my idea then that is exactly what I am focusing it on.

B/c there are going to be people with more money then other people, so you can limit that. So, what are you going to limit? The effect of USD? That's what many developers end up trying to do, problem is, a lot of times this decreases the effects of the in game money that other people worked hard to get. There will be people with near USD-spenders amounts of money, restrict the USD-spenders, and you restrict them, simple as that. Unless you want to remove CB transfers, but common, don't make me laugh.

How?

(Post above was for Zen. ;) )


It's been suggested before. And I know some folk were quite interested in the no transfer option.

But I agree, without removing transfers, you can't remove USD (or it's equivalent) from the game.

Which part?

i thought exactly the same thing! my definition of weak just also encompasses someone who hasn't or cannot throw as much money at the game in addition to smaller mpr. why do you leave that out?

Actually, I still think clanfighting would be competitive if Kefeck's idea did fly. The point, rather than gaining points from killing opponent clan members, would change to hitting opponent clan members in order to reduce their score.

It would allow members who cannot find clan targets within their range to still produce reasonable CPs, but otherwise I do not think it would change clan fighting much at all. It would merely change and slightly downplay the incentive to fight clan members.

How hard would it be to have this system:

Non-clan targets: 1 point.
Clan targets: 3 points.
Target that gives a positive challenge bonus: +1 point.

And then there would still be the +2 clan bonus modification.

Similiar to Zenai's idea, but this one should be easier to code.

Oh and there is nothing broken about early clan fighting or clan fighting at all, so all other suggestions I'm against.

At the early game it's very easy to have just as good of a clan score as anyone else because you have way more BA to spend and you are getting attacked alot less.

As you raise higher, you get more clan targets available, you get attacked more, and your BA goes down.

Atm it's actually rather balanced as long as you win a majority of your fights and you fight a majority of your BA.

Because you cannot stop USD and this is a different argument dudemus. No matter which way you go this game andevery other one is and/or will be affected by USD in some way. So in short drop it bro, that idea will not fly period sob stop bringing it up . Geeze man seriously enough already.

Kefecks idea with my tweaks looks to be a pretty good idea based on relevant things that can be used without causing CB to be split in half.

I still don't see what you were doing about the Free/NCB Cost BA stuff?

telling me to hush really doesn't answer my question, nor does it support your argument any. what is the difference between attacking a weaker opponent in relations to mpr and nw? why is it okay, in your mind, to include one of those in clan reward calculations and not the other.

Nor was it meant to.


Once again it was not meant to.


Because it is about fighting a person inside your MPR Range NW has absolutely nothing to do with it.



Because this is about the freaking Clan System not Everything else in CB. NW has nothing to do with MPR which is my Focus on the Idea that Kefeck brought up and I tweaked.

NW/PR Governs so much else in this game, Clan Fighting shouldn't be governed by it as well. Clans are different, they are connected to the system, they affect and are affected by it, but are also separate in how they work. You integrate them the way you are proposing and you take it all away why even have Clans, just give ppl a Bonus and let it go....what a waste of a system, history and something else to break the monotony. My view is as simple as that dudemus.


Now will you freaking drop the stupid stupid stupid "Stop USD!" roll you have been on since the inception of CB2!(or before) It is here it is not going away, we all get your standpoint, and get it every single chance you get to repost/mention it, alright so enough man. Can we get back on the subject and away from your personal Hate USD Vendetta please.

An easier way to summarize that is "for the purposes of this argument, we are discussing MPR, NW is semantic difference" though you are not really in a position to decide what is and isn't relevant to the definition of "weaker" for the purposes of this argument as you are not the thread creator

I agree that if such a suggestion were taken into consideration, it should consider both MPR and NW, not just one or the other

GL: I was posting in reply to your post at QBGentlemanLoser 5:32 PM EDT not the one after it which involves NCB BA Costs. That is another Subject so if you would could you Start a Thread about it and I will Gladly post my ideas in it thanks bro.

OB: This is how I defined weaker:

*Unworthy Targets are more than 1 Mil - 1.5 Mil Networth Difference
*Worthy Targets are less that assigned above

Which should have Read:

*Unworthy Targets are more than 1 Mil - 1.5 Mil MPR Difference
*Worthy Targets are less that assigned above

and Kefeck agreed that it was a good idea and supported it. So while you may have a point in saying that I am No One in a position to say what is relevant in the definition of "Weaker". I do happen to have an opinion on the Idea and I gave just that so in short chill.

Trust me, you could take a bit of your own advice there, pal. I was simply agreeing that both MPR and NW should be taken into consideration, and explaining that you're in no position to direct the flow of debate.

In short, chill.

Given the above yes I am OB since it is my Thread Creator Supported Tweaks that are the center of this now. Please back off now thanks.

Oh my, yes, Mr. Thread Creator Approved Poster. Please do continue directing debate. I shall not mention the banned "USD" acronym in front of you any further - damn, I did it again - and will ensure that any further posts are not only within your allowed debate guidelines, but in complete agreement with any points you may be making.

(also, chill, son.)

Since you seem to have problem with me try the link below and knock yourself out.

Well since NS already said basically it would be to much work..


Can an admin please close this thread..

Feel free to debate your off-topic shenanigans elsewhere. Thank you.

Ok, after reading though this the impression that I got was that people think clan fighting is a bit too cutthroat in a few areas. Personally I do not think that MPR or NW should play any part in CP generation other than the BA regeneration rates.

The only tweak to the current system that I think might be good would be to make it so that if a member of a clan has a net score that is in the negatives they either generate and lose 1 less per fight from other people as in they become 5/3 targets. Or else they are still 6 point targets but each fight only loses 2 instead of the 4 they would normally lose. They would still be 4/2 targets if the clan doesn't get a bonus.

I think something along those lines might work. But I think the clan point system should stay apart from MPR and NW.

How is it another subject? the OP is about CP generation, and increasing it.

>The people that fight the most battles SHOULD have the most clan points. I should not be penalized for fighting non clan targets when I am working harder than 90% of the 6/20 regen zone

This is impacted massively by the free BA cost of the NUB and the increased BA cost fo the NCB.

And it's something that should be addressed first, before we look at making it easier to generate more CP by making every target give the same amount.

If every target gave the same amount of CPs, then CP generation becomes nothing more than a side effect of BA expenditure. Which would then mean that those with a NUB are literally gifted extra CPs as it become prohibative for NCB clanners (and sometimes those without Bonuses) to match thier 'bought' BA.

As for the Early game specifically, it's not just the Clan game that's suffering.

A possible solution would be once we've seeded the lower game with some admin run NPC charcaters, would be to have them in thier own Clan (or Clans) to give some more Clan targets, spread over the regen rates.

GL: Whereas I understand where you are coming from no this is indeed a different subject bro. It is the NUB and NCB argument just like dudemus had the USD Argument and OB had the I whatever it was argument.

Also note everyone getting the same CPs was changed in favor of a teak I came up wiith. In light of NS saying that would be mega hard to do, dudemus' USD Vendetta and OB's insistence of acting like a jerk it's finished. I spoke with Kefeck and he said he got all the feedback he needed from NS and that overall is what really counts anyway.

No Zen, the N*B arguement is;

"They suck and ruin the game, get rid of them". Which is indeed material for another thread. ;)

This was a specific point about Clan Point generation, in a thread about Clan Point generation.

I'd even bring up USD, and be on topic, if you could purchase clan points...

In a thread about Clan Point generation, anything that influences such, including the new Rituals, is on topic. Espeically as the OP asks for "Thoughts/Idea's", and doubly so as part of the OP was about the fact that 'those who fight the most should be intitled to the most'. Which the Free BA and Costly BA of the bonuses directly impact.

Sure, NS has already poo-poo'ed the idea of making all targets gives the same cost, but he didn't stop the discussion about it.

As for the idea of 'worth' or in essence making the challenge bonus apply to Clan Points, as Nat has already mentioned, BA regen accounts for this somewhat. And it limits choice.

The Choice is currently;

Do you want to maximise your growth? Or do you want to maximise your score for your Clan?

Two different choices, that can pull in two different directions.

Your teams growth could be maximised if you target and fight higher, but non clan opponents. But you're not providing as much use to your clan, and potentially losing out on Clan Bonus for everyone. So you choose to hit Clan targets over personal growth.

With 'worthy' targets, you are now penalised more so, but not only getting less rewards for targetting Clan members for your Clan, but also getting less Clan rewards if the targets you choose aren't worthy.

Why would you bother?

Not only that, it also removes some of the 'war' like nature of Clans, where people could target all members of an opposing Clan, especially much smaller ones (for character growth penalites) to facilitate a clan war.

Less 'worthy' clan targets wouldn't get hit, purely becuase it would remain better to concntrate on the 'worthy' ones, and farm them instead.

So the 'worthy' nature doesn't really do anything to limit 'Clan' farming.

So what's its purpose? Just to double penalise those choosing to fight down for thier Clan? What would that solve?

in short, just as i was expanding your definition of "worthy" in regard to clan targets, gl & i were also expanding your idea of "worthy" in regards to the discussion itself.

just because you disagree with someone's opinion doesn't make it "unworthy" and no one appointed you forum police. telling people to be quiet all the time when they disagree or bring different ideas also adds nothing to the discussion!

i tend to agree with nat more than anyone, but only the second idea for minimizing negative points and would definitely be willing to try that to see how it works out.

GL: Point to be made here I do not care anymore. All people do is argue anyway so why do it? The discussion is moot and personally I do not like your standpoint on the Idea. It's simple I felt my Tweak to Kefeck's idea leveled out the Clan System, you do not. End of Story no need to continually attempt to shove your Idea down my throat since I refuse to swallow it.

Dudemus: Honestly I did not welcome yours or GL's "Expanding" of my welcomed tweak to Kefeck's Idea. Which is why I basically told you to stuff it. No offense intended but there it is.

My idea, the NPC in clans I've suggested once? Or the point about discussing the BA costs and thier impact?

Zen, you're way off track here, I suppose this post will only be taken as a personal attack, which it isn't.

This is a discussion forum. You should expect people to discuss and debate ideas and suggestions. Especially when asked for...

You don't like my standpoint, that's all well and good, everyone is entitiled to thier own opinions. I tend to get my 'standpoint' challenged often. But you don't explain yourself, and get, fraught, when others disagree with you.

I've said before (only mentioning again becuase I want to reiterate this isn't a personal attack and I don't want to be accused of saying things I wouldn't say openly), sometimes you get too emotional (as well all do) in your forum posts, too caught up in personal bias (such as a comment about USD use being taken as a slight to your own playing skill), and maybe taking a step back would be helpful.

Not every suggestion is going to be perfect right off the bat. Getting others points of views can only help flesh out and round out ideas, and is a healthy part of discussion.

No need to jump down peoples throats for disagreeing with you.

;)

Back on track, I still feel there's a problem with the low game (as a whole, including Clan points), and the current fix of getting in more players (as a larger player base and turnaround of players should alleviate the problem) isn't working.

The problem surrounding generation of clan points in the low game is somewhat lessened by the 10/20 regn rate, giving you more BA to burn and therefore more potential CPs.

Is the problem with the system, or the lack of targets?

"Is the problem with the system, or the lack of targets? "

A mixture of both really.. There are plenty of targets down there, the question is if you want to fight at 100% all the time. At that point don't expect a fight list higher than 3-4.

3-4? That's plenty, 1> is too many :)

Anything smaller than a 3-4 fight list is just cruel titan lol. At that point your target is going to leave the clan thanks to be farmed into the negatives really bad. So now your back to square 1 with no clan targets.. haha.

(check with eliteofdelete if you don't believe me).

Isn't that part of the trade off? Having to choose not to fight at 100%, in order to get more points for your Clan.

Do we really want Clanners to be able to hit 100% CB and 6 CPs and have the best of both worlds?

"Do we really want Clanners to be able to hit 100% CB and 6 CPs and have the best of both worlds?"


Yes actually..

Last I checked there were only a handful of NCB's that have made it past 4 million mpr. When the top Mpr's are 6 million +, even 4 million is an epic failure.

How about a system where we actually have a chance?

How bout we just give everyone a 6M MPR char. 4M with an NCB is easy.

titan is aboard now! if so much of the early game is borked, just move everyone to the unborked game! ; )

"4M with an NCB is easy."


Has there even been 10 NCB's that have hit that mark?

Keep in mind titan would you have hit 5 million mpr with your ncb had you not used that loophole so much? I highly doubt it. So you would of ended up somewhere in the mid to upper 4 million mpr range..

So tell me again how easy was your ncb? ;)

Let's see, I didn't buy BA the first three months, without the loop hole, it would have ended with about 4.7-4.8M MPR, with one hiring it would have been at about 5.1M, without buying BA for the first three months. Hold on a sec, I'm thinking... yup, 4M is easy.

"Hold on a sec, I'm thinking... yup, 4M is easy. "


I'm not sure why you would discredit the effort you put into your ncb and call it "easy".

The fact is most people struggle to hit 4 million mpr. Does that make them bad cb players? Heavens no.. This game really needs to start striving to please the masses. Or there won't be much of a game to play anymore.

Even if it means some massive change like cheaper BA for NCB's or even free?

when i said use pr above to determine "worthy" opponents, i was actually meaning vpr. that is my fault as i tend to think of vpr as the true vpr and thus use them interchangeably.

I was not jumping dow throats for disagreeing with me I understand that discussion happens bro. What got me riled was that ppl were totally dismissing my points and trying to shove theirs down my throat. This as always gets on my nerves and of course until I point it out ppl do not see it.

Dudemus: I think VPR is an even better Marker than just MPR or NW alone as this is the precursor and the determining factor for Rewards as it stands. Compare VPRs and this determines if the opponent is worthy or not and CPs are then allocated per the Legend I posted earlier(except in VPR Terms).

"The fact is most people struggle to hit 4 million mpr. Does that make them bad cb players?"

It makes them below par. And please, bring on the flames.

"It makes them below par. And please, bring on the flames"

/me face palms.. lol

Heh, no flames from me. I'm not gonna hit 4M MPR from this NCB, but that's partly due to my strat desires and only partly due to the CB Mechanics. ;)

If I used Ranged Weapons, a Junctioned Jig, or anything other than UC, I'd be doing much better. ;)

Another idea to fix the early clan game : REMOVE all differentiated regen rates and change it all to 3/10 instead. This only one would have FULL penalties for fighting against opponents with score below your PR.

Sickone: That would be a bit harsh to those up top. It would make the upper ranks a place to avoid and make the Disposable Character System even worse than it is now. :-/

But then everyone hits every BA. Those below would be capable of getting challenge bonus, so they would rise up to everyone else, and the ones up top would get penalized and drop....it would settle out with everyone at about the same strength, all missing 0 BA. The game would suck :(

^-----That too. >.<

I feel that Dudemus' revision to my tweak on Kefeck's Idea would be a good way to go for regulating CPs on a more fair basis.

Sounds wonderful !


Say whaaa ?!?!