Negative ST/DX Drain (in General)


AdminTitan September 8 2011 12:36 PM EDT

So, if someone has an EC greater than your DX/ST it drains it into the negatives right? But, how far does it drain it. I assumed it drained it like you'd expect. 40k EC; 20k ST, 10k DX would result in -20k ST and -30k DX; but it doesn't work this way. Does anyone know how it works?

QBRanger September 8 2011 12:40 PM EDT

It works that way for me. Vs Incompetent Misfits, his EC tanks my familiar and Thing 2 into the negatives exactly 20 less than his EC effect.

Are there other factors like not using a missile weapon in melee rounds?

Quyen September 8 2011 12:42 PM EDT

hmm.. i get a -470K while the enemy has 600K EC :\

QBRanger September 8 2011 12:44 PM EDT

I think I see the problem.

The AoF amplifies the EC effect. If your last minion wears one, the EC effect is only for the minion using that AOF and the level of EC is dependant on the + of the AoF. Minions with different + AoF and minions without a AoF have a different or no EC effect.

AdminTitan September 8 2011 12:44 PM EDT

Lol, good call ranger. So, if you have a negative DX, using a ranged weapon in melee actually raises your DX by what the penalty should be. So like -20k turns into -8k for bows.

QBRanger September 8 2011 12:45 PM EDT

Yes, to Titan.

The penalty moves the dex towards 0, like using the absolute value of the number, positive or negative.

AdminTitan September 8 2011 12:50 PM EDT

That's really dumb, should be:

if( x > 0 ):
x*1/penalty
else:
x*penalty

You shouldn't get rewarded for using a bow in melee if you have neg dx.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 8 2011 12:52 PM EDT

Agreed, but I don't think it's an issue, as CB doesn't use negative stats.

All stats below zero count as zero for all calculations, so even if you get closer to zero with the ranged penalty, it'll never make it greater than zero and will never have any in game effect.

That all said, it's still silly. ;)

AdminTitan September 8 2011 1:05 PM EDT

Agreed, but I don't think it's an issue, as CB doesn't use negative stats.

It does for Haste and ST; if you get drained to -10k, then have a bow in melee, you get put back to -4k. Then if you have a 10k haste you get put back to 1k DX, instead of -5k.

I think Haste and GS should just be calculated this way. Calculate effect, factor EC into DX and ST. If they are below 0, set DX/ST equal to Haste/GS effect. Otherwise add them to the resulting DX/ST.

It'd be a nice little buff to Haste/GS

QBRanger September 8 2011 1:09 PM EDT

Haste and EC are applied well before an archer goes into melee. So if dex goes into the negatives, it will not matter as all negative dex is treated as 0.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] September 8 2011 1:09 PM EDT

But the drain/increase from EC/Haste/GS is all done prior to the start of the match, and has no impact on the change ranged penalties bring.

If the EC/Haste/GS calc brings you to negatives, you'll remain there and be counted as zero. If it doesn't, the ranged weapon penalty will reduce what's left closer to zero.

That same applies for E/AXbow drains. Once you're below zero (apart from no longer being targetted), you'll always remain below zero.

AdminTitan September 8 2011 1:43 PM EDT

Haste and EC are applied well before an archer goes into melee.

I guess that is indeed true.

I think Haste and GS should just be calculated this way. Calculate effect, factor EC into DX and ST. If they are below 0, set DX/ST equal to Haste/GS effect. Otherwise add them to the resulting DX/ST.

Still think this would be cool.

QBRanger September 8 2011 1:46 PM EDT

Indeed it would.

I have been thinking of a suggestion where GS and Haste added stats would be immune to the effects of EC and leeching items (exbow and axbow). They still would be vulnerable to DM.

However, this may be too powered on a RoS character. I personally doubt it, given the suboptimal return of less than 1:1 on the xp and the ability of very high level DM to wreck havoc with such a strat.
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