Stacking Evasion (in General)


AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 1 2012 12:05 PM EST

Mechanically, what gives you the best 'bang for your buck' so to speak, out of all the methods of layering Evasion.

The options are;

AoI (not evasion really, but it does a similar role and shares an item slot)
AoF (couple with trained Evasion)
Evasion
RoBF
EG
EC
EB
DB

Some of these options share the same slots, and the Elven gear/AoF won't help unless you train Evasion naturally.

So what's the best combination to use to squeeze the most?

Ignore trained Evasion entirely and utilise AoI/DB/RoBF?

Train Evasion and still use AoI/DB/RoBF?

Train Evasion and use AoF/EG/EB/RoBF?

Or drop the RoBF due to stacking and use AoF/EG/EB/EC?

Or some combination of the above? Or none, and just go with the largest pair of DBs you can afford.

Due to the stacking mechanics (and don't forget only trained evasion gets bonuses in Ranged rounds) and assuming there's enough DEX not to penalise any trained Evasion, what's the best route for overall performance?

Kefeck [BlackSmith] January 1 2012 12:12 PM EST

Or none, and just go with the largest pair of DBs you can afford.

I always figured it was this ^

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 1 2012 1:05 PM EST

LoL!

For example, is it detrimental to train Evasion while wearing DB/RoBF, as you lessen the benefit your NW gives you. Or no matter what, it's always a benefit to stack Evasion with DB/RoBF?

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 1 2012 1:10 PM EST

RoBF, DBs and EC (Eth Chains) is the best way to use evasion imo (as long as its not on a tank)

QBRanger January 1 2012 1:11 PM EST

If you have the money, of course DBs are your best bet. Then you can use the xp for other things.

If you cannot use DBs the following gear is likely the best:

AoF
EG
EC
EB

If you plan on using a RBF, then use the RBF on the evasion minion.

If not then use the EC and perhaps the MCM for no penalties.

If it also is an enchanter type minion, I would use a corn even though it gives a hefty skill penalty and just get more of a boost from your AoF.

AdminTitan January 1 2012 1:12 PM EST

You always get more evasion from training evasion. However evasion is really only exp efficient for like the first 150 or so; since that's easily reachable with DBs, I'd recommend going just DBs/AoI. Then decide if you want to use the RoBF for other reasons, such as the GA proof damage. The only time you might want to go something different is if you're trying not to get hit at all, and I would go AoI/EG/EB/EC and train DX as well. But, I doubt that's what you're shooting for, b/c it's very hard.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 1 2012 1:32 PM EST

Well, that's the ultimate goal. ;)

Is;

I would go AoI/EG/EB/EC and train DX as well

Better than AoI/EG/EB/RoBF with Dex? Or even AoI/EB/DB/Robf with Dex?

Is it not worth using two forms of NW evasion stacking? (Namely DBs + RoBF) Does the stacking of NW make this a wasteful option?

AdminTitan January 1 2012 1:35 PM EST

I think BoE/EC is a better option if you're going DX + evasion, but again, it is very very hard to avoid every hit.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 1 2012 1:40 PM EST

Well, I don't shy away form the difficult stuff! lol!

So the 8% to DEX/Evasion (and you'd be training Evasion here?) from the BoE and the DEX/Evasion increase from the EC outpace the NW equivalent Evasion from the RoBF.

If you're training Evasion, why not use the AoF over the AoI? And DBs aren't the optimal choice anyway?

AdminTitan January 1 2012 1:43 PM EST

Yeah, from EC/BoE you could get like a plus 20% to Evasion *and* DX which is the big reason I say that. In order to avoid all or nearly all hits your DX is going to need to be big too.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 1 2012 1:50 PM EST

But no AoF and EBs over DB (For the DEX boost in addition to the Evasion boost?)

Sorry if this seems like I'm reiterating the same questions, just trying to hammer out Evasion stacking! ;)

AdminTitan January 1 2012 1:53 PM EST

Remember I'm not an expert on this, but these are my reasons:

EBs for the same reason, they can give you like 30% more DX, and you're going to need that DX; even if you get maybe like 20 less evasion or something.

The reason I say AoI over AoF is the AoI is unique in the fact that it is the only item that can lower an opponents CTH below their bth, which can be very very beneficial.

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 1 2012 2:00 PM EST

I think its cheaper to train EC over DX to get DX adv if trying to make people completely miss.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 1 2012 2:01 PM EST

EC is Elven Cloak here mate. ;) Training EC instead of DEX for a DEX advantage is a waste, as you'd only get 50% of the DEX you would normally get, and can use any of the DEX/Skill increasing gear with it. :(

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 1 2012 2:07 PM EST

Even if you have 2 times their DX (which in EC would give you a much better dx ratio) they would still have .5BTH chance to hit you.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 1 2012 3:11 PM EST

0.5 * Weapon BCTH for double their Dex?

Hmmm, larger Dex gaps will be problematic, so the AoI looks to be the choice.

So facing a 2H Melee weapons, if I double their Dex, they would have a 20% BCTH, which would be reduced to zero with an AoI? Or does the AoI come before the Dex comparison?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] January 1 2012 3:13 PM EST

after

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 1 2012 4:05 PM EST

Yes, 2x dx and AoI will let you evade the lowest possible bth weapons, that was why I quantified evading all physical attacks.

Keep in mind (judging by your current strat) you will need an AoI on your mage too, or physical dmg will go right through your evasion wall.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 1 2012 4:27 PM EST

Yeah, if I go for an AoI, I'll need two. :(

But it seems like the AoI really is necessary, and too good to pass up.

After the Dex Comparison, that's awesome!

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 1 2012 4:29 PM EST

But, for the AoI to work like that, doesn't all PTH have to be reduced to zero as well?



AdminTitan January 1 2012 4:46 PM EST

The AoI always just reduces the CTH by 20 no matter what.

Sickone January 1 2012 7:02 PM EST

AoI is kind of the overall best choice since it works beyond the cap of Evasion and has no drawbacks.

All straight Evasion you could ever need could be "harvested" in the form of large DBs, so it's better to spend your XP elsewhere, not on trained evasion.

The RoBF is not absolutely necessary (but it does not hurt either, and the other tattoo benefits would be "worth it").
The ToA might arguably be a choice just as good since it grants a lot of DX (which is boostable by elven gear) alongside some hefty ST, so you might as well slap a pair of weapons on the minion and be done with it (or, alternatively, slap in a ranged weapon only, an EXBow preferably, then train some melee-only DD magic).

That leaves DX and non-conflicting elven gear (no boots because you use DBs, probably no cloak either because you want to use a tattoo, so that leaves only gloves if I'm not missing anything else).

miteke [Superheros] January 1 2012 10:55 PM EST

Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned that the main drawback of the DBs is the PR boost. If you are in the top 10%, then that is not a big deal, but it is pretty difficult to maintain a good challenge bonus if you put your max NW into DBs.

Sometimes bigger is not better. I often dress down for attacks to give me a better challenge bonus.

Sickone January 2 2012 6:26 AM EST

Natasha occasionally claims that a higher PR is actually better even in the lower ranks.
I am not exactly convinced regarding those claims, as there's not much else except statements to back them up (a few actual practical examples would be nice, an actual formula would be much better).
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003GYk">Stacking Evasion</a>