Whatcha think? :D (in General)


lostling January 18 2012 1:49 PM EST

DD damage Comparison

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 18 2012 2:30 PM EST

MM sucks?

And lol who editted the base SG? ;)

And the Ranged/Melee DDs are balanced around 9 rounds of combat.

lostling January 18 2012 2:38 PM EST

what do you mean who edited?

Demigod January 18 2012 2:43 PM EST

He means that changes made to the given AC hold true until the next person updates the field. It was 400, now it's 40.

BestNUB January 18 2012 2:43 PM EST

FB sucks? xD

Also out of curiosity and being of a math background, what are the units on the y-axis of the graph?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 18 2012 2:44 PM EST

The yellow SG line moved from when I started viewing the sheet, to when I came back from reading Emma a bedtime story (I didn't reload the page either).

When I had come back, the yellow line was above all of them.

BestNUB January 18 2012 2:47 PM EST

Yeah that yellow line is adjustable based on the "Base AC" number you put into cell J2. And since it is shared with the public, anyone can edit it.

lostling January 18 2012 2:52 PM EST

FB = 65% damage per level of fireball
so i just took it as 0.65

you can check it under the data section

QBRanger January 18 2012 4:46 PM EST

FB sucks in that during melee your own minions take friendly fire damage.

That makes it unusable in anything other than the early game.

AdminTitan January 18 2012 4:59 PM EST

Holy hell batman! I need to train FB. Takes till round 15 for SG on 50 base AC to pass FB.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 18 2012 5:13 PM EST

It's a shame for those last 9/10 rounds you're also killing yourself. :(

AdminTitan January 18 2012 5:16 PM EST

I'd take that any day of the week. Seeing that I only have 3M HP on my small minion and it's mainly for decay casting, CoC/SG absorbing, and ranged PL damage absorbing. By then those rounds it's already played it's role. And I'll be doing like 50% more damage at like round 10.

AdminTitan January 18 2012 5:17 PM EST

Okay, more like 10-15%; but whatever I'm really excited!

QBRanger January 18 2012 5:31 PM EST

I guess you will never plan on hiring more minions.

AdminTitan January 18 2012 5:37 PM EST

Nope, why ruin perfect balance. :)

QBPit Spawn [Abyssal Specters] January 18 2012 5:56 PM EST

in regards to FB/CoC, is that dmg vs 1,2,3 or 4 minions?

TH3 C0113CT0R January 18 2012 6:03 PM EST

so does this just prove that SG/CoC are the best spells and the rest are just kinda sub par

QBRanger January 18 2012 6:06 PM EST

I wonder how many fights end before 9 rounds?

I would guess not too many given the prevalence of HP/PL/TSA minions our there.

But having tested all the familiars, I can say the IF and EF are by far the best.

The FF is just a joke with its friendly fire, as is FB.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 18 2012 6:37 PM EST

in regards to FB/CoC, is that dmg vs 1,2,3 or 4 minions?

5

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 18 2012 6:38 PM EST

But they do the same overall damage versus 1. ;)

AdminTitan January 18 2012 6:52 PM EST

But they do the same overall damage versus 1. ;)

No

lostling January 18 2012 10:07 PM EST

vs 1 minion

lostling January 18 2012 10:15 PM EST

if anyone can give me the % of damage per level you do to a 5 minion team i can add in number of minions.

for example fireball is 0.65 damage per level vs 1 minion
so 0.65/5 vs 5minions?

lostling January 18 2012 10:20 PM EST

oops i got that backwards... but you get the idea

lostling January 18 2012 10:23 PM EST

5minions

if anyone can give me the % of damage per level you do to a 1 minion team i can add in number of minions.

for example fireball is 0.65 damage per level vs 5 minion total
so ? vs 1minion?

lostling January 19 2012 7:13 AM EST

added stuff :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2012 7:32 AM EST

No

DD does mate.

FB does the same overall damage facing a single minion as it does 5. It was only in CB1 where FB/CoC damage changed depending on minion count (I can't remember if it used to gain or lose any more!).

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2012 7:34 AM EST

Lost, that's all in the Wiki.

FB is 13% per minion, 65% in total for 5.

CoC is 22% per minion, 110% in total for 5.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2012 7:36 AM EST

Hmm, that's a little misleading. Sorry.

CoC is 110% overall, facing 1 or 5 minions. Facing 2 minion they would each be hit for 55% damage. For example.

lostling January 19 2012 8:38 AM EST

someone told me that wasnt the case... but they could be mistaken :) i forgot who though... they said something about the % changing

AdminTitan January 19 2012 9:14 AM EST

DD does mate.

FB does the same overall damage facing a single minion as it does 5.

No, no it doesn't. There is a noticeable difference, either intended or not. If you don't believe me, ask Natasha or do tests.

lostling January 19 2012 9:53 AM EST

make up your minds people :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2012 10:09 AM EST

This was tested years ago. ;) I'll see what I can dig up.

From 2006;

Grant;

"Explanation: CoC and FB do damage D that is divided evenly among the number of minions, so, where N is the number of minions on the team, damage per minion is D/N ."

I was under the impression that at least FB gains a slight damage boost the less amount of oppoents it targets. Hmm, only the CoC description still has this.

The current CoC ability description is still;

Damage is spread equally among its targets; if less than 5 targets are present, damage is correspondingly greater.

Not really conclusive, back to trawling the archives! ;)

QBRanger January 19 2012 10:16 AM EST

Here is from my CoC:
All vs 0.00 AMF

Vs 4 minions:

Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Moon's Spawn [1,188,781], Kurald Galain [1,053,987], Dragnipur [1,367,482], Satan's Gift [1,339,875]
Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Moon's Spawn [1,467,932], Kurald Galain [1,072,537], Dragnipur [2,135,656], Satan's Gift [1,536,211]

Vs 3:

Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [842,816], Dragnipur [1,889,595], Satan's Gift [1,533,229]
Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [890,488], Dragnipur [1,832,085], Satan's Gift [1,142,529]
Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [692,810], Dragnipur [1,436,798], Satan's Gift [1,914,398]

Vs 2:

Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [1,865,753], Dragnipur [3,618,856]
Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [1,326,539], Dragnipur [3,981,372]

I do not have any battles vs 1 minion on this character but it does over 6M max depending on the armor of that minion.

So I think we can prove that the damage of CoC ramps up the less minions involved.

I have tried the EF and IF and the IF typically vs 99% of the battles I fight does better.

QBRanger January 19 2012 10:22 AM EST

Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Satan's Gift [6,307,180]

vs 1 minion.

lostling January 19 2012 10:24 AM EST

any form of damage negation on them?

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2012 10:28 AM EST

Ranger, DD damage varience would make that single test moot.

There's (IIRC) a 50% Damage varience to count for.

You would have to record many damage records versus the 5 different Minion counts to get a viable sample set.

Sadly. :(

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] January 19 2012 10:33 AM EST

For example, total damage of those fights ranger;

4950125
6212336

4265640
3865102
4044006

5484609
5307911

The most damage was done by the second fight, only slightly less than the single hit you posted.

Areodjarekput January 19 2012 10:34 AM EST

GL, stop telling Ranger to farm me more, please ;)

As for DD damage reduction, the minions have the following:

Moon's Spawn:
Total of (+94) AC with SS

Kurald Galain:
Total of (+100) AC with SS, and a +45 MGS

Dragnipur + Satan's Gift
None

AdminTitan January 19 2012 11:01 AM EST

So I think we can prove that the damage of CoC ramps up the less minions involved.

Yes, and I'm pretty sure FB is the opposite, it does more damage the more minions.

QBRanger January 19 2012 11:04 AM EST

But is FB really in the discussion?

Nobody uses it due to the Friendly Fire aspect of the spell.

AdminTitan January 19 2012 11:07 AM EST

As soon as we get another free train I'm switching, so maybe some time in the next 5 years :P

Gandalf January 19 2012 11:07 AM EST

Some of us use it, however i am starting to think it was a bad idea. Ahh well, still having fun :)

QBRanger January 19 2012 12:08 PM EST

Talk about variability:

Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit -Epitaph [1,388,329]

The only minion attacked and with only 29 AC.

QBRanger January 19 2012 12:10 PM EST

Mick Taylor's explosive shot hit Bearings [1,213,264], Thy [379,513], -Epitaph [417,700]
Bearings's Guardian Angel smote Mick Taylor (228,857)
Thy's Guardian Angel smote Mick Taylor (187,590)
-Epitaph's Guardian Angel smote Mick Taylor (208,771)
Mick Taylor's explosive shot hit Bearings [928,104], Thy [298,872], -Epitaph [323,968]
Thy's Guardian Angel smote Mick Taylor (147,373)
-Epitaph's Guardian Angel smote Mick Taylor (156,172)
Mick Taylor's explosive shot hit Bearings [1,395,009], Thy [447,252], -Epitaph [485,625]
Thy's Guardian Angel smote Mick Taylor (113,791)
-Epitaph's Guardian Angel smote Mick Taylor (235,170)
Mick Taylor's explosive shot hit Bearings [1,389,156], -Epitaph [484,018]
-Epitaph's Guardian Angel smote Mick Taylor (237,106)
Mick Taylor's explosive shot hit Bearings [1,269,118], -Epitaph [440,528]
-Epitaph's Guardian Angel smote Mick Taylor (215,758)
Mick Taylor cries "See, Head on a Stick!"
Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit -Epitaph [1,256,456]
-Epitaph's Guardian Angel smote Grotesque (643,125)

I think the CoC damage to the solo minion at the end of the round is yet the same bug pointed out a while ago.

The program likely thinks there are 3 minions alive since there were 3 before my tank attacked and killed 2 of the 3.

Therefore it likely spread the damage 3 ways, but since 2 were dead, only showed the damage on the 1 still alive.

I thought this was fixed. If not please fix this!

AdminTitan January 19 2012 12:39 PM EST

I thought this was fixed. If not please fix this!

I think this started happening at the same time as the TSA bug, which also still needs fixed, I'm not sure if they are related. But, yes they both need fixed.

lostling January 19 2012 12:40 PM EST

Moon's Spawn:
Total of (+94) AC with SS
94*0.167 = 15.698% reduction
84.302% left

Kurald Galain:
Total of (+100) AC with SS, and a +45 MGS
100*0.167=16.7%
55%*83.3%=45.815% left

Dragnipur + Satan's Gift
None

after using the info to recalculate damage dealt based on 0 damage reduction....

Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Moon's Spawn [1,410,146], Kurald Galain [2,300,528], Dragnipur [1,367,482], Satan's Gift [1,339,875]
Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Moon's Spawn [1,741,278], Kurald Galain [2,341,017], Dragnipur [2,135,656], Satan's Gift [1,536,211]

total damage = 6,418,031 and 7,754,162

Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [1,839,607], Dragnipur [1,889,595], Satan's Gift [1,533,229]
Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [1,943,660], Dragnipur [1,832,085], Satan's Gift [1,142,529]
Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [1,512,190], Dragnipur [1,436,798], Satan's Gift [1,914,398]

total damage = 5,262,431 and 4,918,274 and 4,863,386

Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [4,072,363], Dragnipur [3,618,856]
Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Kurald Galain [2,895,425], Dragnipur [3,981,372]

total damage = 7,691,219 and 6,876,797

Grotesque's Cone of Cold hit Satan's Gift [6,307,180]

whatcha people think? is my math right?

lostling January 19 2012 1:16 PM EST

for the wizards who havent figured it out yet, yes my datasheet has multiple spreadsheets... there are tabs for you to click :D

Demigod January 19 2012 2:02 PM EST

Since none of us have really said it, thanks for making the graph. It's nice to see the visual comparison.

lostling January 19 2012 2:16 PM EST

:) np i did one a long time ago but this is like the improved version :D

lostling January 19 2012 6:56 PM EST

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