Chance to hit with ELB (in General)

miteke [Superheros] February 13 2012 2:50 PM EST

If I have archery and a huge dex advantage over an opponent, what are the chances to hit with an ELB provided all PTH are cancelled by evasion in melee?

QBRanger February 13 2012 2:54 PM EST

40% of 200%

BestNUB February 13 2012 2:59 PM EST

I have always been curious to see how To-Hit is calculated. How did you get 40%? Is it because he gets 100% of the 200% from the dex advantage and since it's melee he subtracts 60% melee penalty?

QBRanger February 13 2012 3:00 PM EST


It is 40% of your total chance to hit. PTH and CTH added then multiplied by .4.

QBRanger February 13 2012 3:03 PM EST


I have +311 PTH. With full dex I get 160 CTH.

So I have 471 total to hit.

471 x .4 = 188 to hit in melee.

I have never hit 3 times ever in melee so this is correct as far as I have noticed.

QBRanger February 13 2012 3:05 PM EST

471 x .4 = 188 to hit in melee.

With a sling it is 20% chance to hit so I have about 90% to hit in melee. I have hit up to 2 times in melee rarely so the calcs may have a fudge factor involved.

BestNUB February 13 2012 3:05 PM EST

so for his case, the pth is 0 and the cth due to the dex is around 1, multiply by 0.4 gives 0.4?

QBRanger February 13 2012 3:08 PM EST

The base CTH of the elb is 100%. That is with equal dex. Since he states he has max dex advantage his CTH rises to 200%.

Multiply that by .4 is 80% to hit in melee.

BestNUB February 13 2012 3:16 PM EST

I'm lost now. But you just said 40% a few minutes ago. This to-hit calculation is like voodoo magic for me :S

QBRanger February 13 2012 3:18 PM EST

I said 40% of 200%.

.4 is the multiplier for bows in melee. .2 for slings .6 for xbows.

BestNUB February 13 2012 3:25 PM EST

Ok, I think I figured it out. Thanks.

miteke [Superheros] February 13 2012 3:42 PM EST

I must be missing something then. My character Order is trying to peg db's The man with no name. I have 1.9M ending dex even after the melee / EC reduction. He has 470 dex and casts no spells to boost it. I figure his AoI, RoBF, and DBs cancel out all my PTH, but I'm still only hitting about 20% of the time even with the massive dex advantage. What am I missing? Does a RoBF give dex as well as evasion? Should I sac more clan points and run more trials?

BestNUB February 13 2012 3:58 PM EST

Ok, I looked at the numbers again and two things stuck out at me. Shouldn't the weapon CTH (otherwise known as bth) also be reduced by 60% as well, since the wiki page states that melee reduces wpn pth, wpn cth, and dex.

So it's 40% from bth, 100% from dex. Then you multiply (140*0.4)=56

Lastly (this being my second point) , it seems like the AoI should be subtracted at this point, so you take 20 off for the AoI and get 36. *more confused than before.

QBRanger February 13 2012 4:13 PM EST

I figure his AoI, RoBF, and DBs cancel out all my PTH

Are you certain of this?

Also, the AoI can effect the CTH, reducing it by 20%.

Shouldn't the weapon CTH (otherwise known as bth) also be reduced by 60% as well, since the wiki page states that melee reduces wpn pth, wpn cth, and dex.

If I read this correctly, yes. All To Hit is reduced by 60% using a bow in melee.

QBRanger February 13 2012 4:20 PM EST


I think your OP threw me off.

In melee your Plus to Hit from your Leadership and ELB is cut by 60%.

THEN his minus PTH comes into play, which is likely well over your reduced plus to hit.

So you are left with dex CTH, however with his RBF and DB, I would assume that he even has a higher minus to hit than your reduced PTH.

Your elb is 210 which x .4 = 84. His RBF + DB is likely well over that. His minus PTH can reduce your CTH to the ELB's base which is 100.

So I would assume you lose your dex bonus to hit and are left with yoru ELB base CTH 100.

100 x .4 = 40%.

Then the AoI further reduces the to hit by 20%, leaving you with 20%, which is what you are seeing in melee.

miteke [Superheros] February 13 2012 4:22 PM EST

I thought evasion only ate into PTH, not dex CTH.

BestNUB February 13 2012 4:26 PM EST

Two pages say otherwise:
After calculating DX CTH from BTH and R, add PTH and subtract the target's modified Evasion effect (from skill-boosting gear or Displacement Boots). As of September 2008, if the result is below min(BTH, DX CTH) (not supported by exact numbers, more testing needed), cap it there instead

Evasion above opponents' plus-to-hit (from weapon enchantments or Tattoo of Augmentation) will reduce dexterity based chance-to-hit

QBRanger February 13 2012 4:30 PM EST

Evasion, DB, and RBF cane eat it dex to hit and lower it to the weapons base (cth) .

The AoI can further reduce CTH by 20% and is the only item that can lower CTH.

miteke [Superheros] February 13 2012 4:55 PM EST

Thanks. That answers all my questions then.

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] February 13 2012 7:34 PM EST

So far the description for ranged weapons in melee combat cth is wrong. For the ELB you take the dex penalty and then you take that .6 penalty to the bth. This means your dex is lowered and your bth is lowered, but the dex cth itself is not penalized. You get your new dex cth based on the new stats, so for ELB you would get 140 dex cth with max dex.

The PTH does face the full .6 penalty so the 210 pth becomes 84.

Also to note the protected amount is only 40 cth because you have only 40 bth in melee.

I don't know whether or not leadership has full effect yet. But I would reason that it does grant the full bonus even in melee.

QBRanger February 13 2012 7:37 PM EST


If that was true, Miteke would hit one time at least a round. He hits about 1/5 rounds with his ELB.

Can you explain why?

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] February 13 2012 7:45 PM EST

Evasion and AoI. You said so yourself.

Also the way you can test for yourself the dex side of the cth is to use 0 pth ranged weapons and see how many hits you can get in melee. For the record you can get 2 with all of them, even the SoD. If it was a flat penalty after calculating cth, the only weapons that would ever be able to hit twice would be the xbows.
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003HH5">Chance to hit with ELB</a>