Challenge and clan bonus mechanics (in General)

WedjeAntilles September 30 2012 6:38 PM EDT

Are challenge and clan bonuses additive or multiplicative in relation to the NUB bonus? i.e. 700% NUB + 100% challenge = 1400%? Or 800%?

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] September 30 2012 7:00 PM EDT


Duke September 30 2012 8:04 PM EDT

No they are cumulative

Duke September 30 2012 8:05 PM EDT

They are multiplicative

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] September 30 2012 8:37 PM EDT

Additive/Cumulative (split the hair if you like ;-D)

700% NUB + 100% Challenge Bonus + 15% Clan Bonus = 815% Total Bonus

Multiplicative? In what way Duke?

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] September 30 2012 8:41 PM EDT

I don't think you can really compare challenge bonus with the rest of the bonuses. First off, it is not additive as you purpose Zenai because if you have -100% challenge bonus you get zero rewards, even if you have 100000000000% Nub bonus :P

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] September 30 2012 9:00 PM EDT

EoD who on CB, in their right mind, would actually fight with a -100% Challenge Bonus?

In the instance you propose yeah sure but otherwise it is additive.

What is it with ppl splitting hairs on this site? Just got to point out the "ONE" instance when it wouldn't apply directly? *Sighs*

Duke September 30 2012 9:25 PM EDT

From what i know from testing under the old NUB formula and before NCB.

A) base rewards are base on BA cost
B) fighting clan members give a bonus i do not know if its increase by NUB/NCB bonus or challange/clan bonus nor how its work but in my test under 160 % nub bonus at 100% challange bonus 14.6% clan bonus the increase was 32$
C) its seem that there 5 potential rewards for the same opponent.

The interaction between Ba cost and rewards is unknow but i think its somewhere from 20% to 40% of your BA cost. 20% 25% 30% 35% 40%

When you get your base rewards * challange bonus * clan bonus then + clan member bonus if apply.

Under the old NUB formula the BA cost were * by NUB bonus so your bonus was not at the end of the formula but at the begining. Also the reason why you see a large increase in rewards after changing BA regen rate. Moving from 10/20 9/20 increase BA cost by about 20%.

Eliteofdelete [Battle Royale] September 30 2012 10:06 PM EDT

My point was that it looks to not be additive due to effects of negative challenge bonus.

If you have -50% you get half the rewards, -100% you get no rewards, etc. Unless the positive values of a challenge bonus give you an additive result and the negative values give you a multiplicative result.

In either case, it is not solely additive.

Sickone September 30 2012 10:45 PM EDT

It makes no sense for the N*B bonus and the rest of the bonuses combined to be additive instead of multiplicative - they NEED to be multiplied for any of the observed results to make sense.
How the rest of the bonuses (challenge bonus, displayed clan bonus, hidden clan bonus, BA cost modifier, enemy PR modifier) get combined, be it added, multiplied or some other weird way, that's another story.

Also, in the above example, more likely, a +700% NUB and a +100% CB would actually yield a +1500% overall bonus (i.e. x16 to rewards)-> (100%+700%)*(100%+100%)-100%

Neo Japan September 30 2012 11:16 PM EDT

It's all bogus in my opinion. I'll be fighting through my list, and I usual delete anyone who gives me less than 1500 XP, so one fight, they give me 1100, but the next 2 fights, they give me 2100. and that person is -10%, while someone who is +10% is only giving me 1800 xp. it's soo random and all over the place.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] September 30 2012 11:19 PM EDT

This is before the yield gentlemen. In the end you add them.

Sickone October 1 2012 12:19 AM EDT

Zenai, I don't think you understand what people are saying.

In the HYPOTHETICAL case of a few fights with a -100% CB opponent vs a +100% CB opponent when your N*B is +700%, if your hypothesis would be accurate, the variation you would notice could go from +600% to +800% of expected base reward (i.e. barely any difference at all) -- before the usual randomness (but that can be averaged out for actual measurements).
This is obviously NOT what you ever actually see, so your hypothesis must be wrong.

Zenai [Ministry of Pain] October 1 2012 12:22 AM EDT

*Sighs* If you so..............

Sickone October 1 2012 12:37 AM EDT

It's all bogus in my opinion. [...] it's soo random and all over the place.

There is a large amount of randomness in rewards, but CB$ reward is always picked as fixed fractions of the average net rewards.
I don't recall from memory what the fraction are for sure, but it was something along the lines of 7/9, 8/9, 9/9=1, 10/9 and 11/9 of the average. I'm fairly sure it's not THOSE, but something similar.
Average XP reward is always a constant multiplied by average CB$ reward, but the actual values XP can take are far more numerous.
You will notice almost exactly the same numbers repeating a lot for CB$ rewards, with actual possible rewards clustered in only a few groups (variations mainly due to own VPR and opponent score changes altering average net reward very slightly), so in a few fights you can gauge what the actual average CB$ reward is if you keep track, and the average XP reward is proportional to that.

Sickone October 1 2012 12:48 AM EDT

P.S. Hmm, they might actually BE those, but you also need to add 6/9 and 12/9 of average into the mix too (for 7 total possible CB$ reward values, not just 5).
Absolutely no clue what the weight of each multiplier is though, nor what multipliers are used for XP (it might even be a continous normal distribution for all I know, I haven't bothered plotting it from enough identical fights, doo tired and bored to do data re-collection).

AdminNemesia [Demonic Serenity] October 1 2012 5:51 AM EDT

The bonuses are multiplicative and there are 5 cbd reward options available to each base cbd reward. I always did it using the minimum value instead of the middle value so it was based upon 1.00, 1.25, 1.50, 1.75, 2.00 multiplied to the base value.

Duke October 1 2012 1:16 PM EDT

Damm i am good

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] October 29 2012 1:23 PM EDT

A) base rewards are base on BA cost

This is not entirely true...

base rewards are actually based off of your power.

Kefeck [Demonic Serenity] October 29 2012 1:29 PM EDT

That being said.

If you have a high power and lose your challenge bonus you won't be receiving the highest possible rewards. You need to find a nice balance, the highest power possible while maintaining the highest challenge bonus possible. That will net you the best rewards.

Sickone October 29 2012 1:40 PM EDT

What he most likely meant to say was that the primary reward multiplier is proportional to the BA purchase cost, which goes up radically as BA regeneration rate changes.
Given a certain fixed challenge bonus at various BA costs (obtained by hitting different targets in each case, obviously), better results can be obtained by having higher BA costs (i.e. having a higher VPR).
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