Proposed Valinor/CB2Bank Contract (in Public Record)

Bubo [DTC of Bubo] February 18 2005 6:46 PM EST

A working contract between Valinor and CB2Bank has been finished, and is ready for round-table discussions between Valinor and CB2Bank. This contract is posted here for public round table discussions between CB2Bank and Valinor. We request and invite all CB2Bank and Valinor members to review these terms, and either confirm their acceptance of the terms or open discussion on the items that raise concern.

Preamble: We wish to propose a mutual business agreement and limited partnership
agreement between Valinor and CB2BANK. Whereas Valinor is a very powerful clan
holding much in the way of assets, sway, and power in CB2, CB2BANK has the means
to help Valinor become an even better clan and in doing such, Valinor is able to
provide nearly twenty guaranteed clientele to CB2BANK to further their assets
and income.

This Business Agreement is made between the recognized Valinor clans ("Valinor")
and the CB2Bank clan ("CB2Bank") within the context of Carnage Blender ("Game").

Section 1 - Definitions

1.1   Valinor - The current three clans of Valinor consisting of "Brotherhood of
      Valinor", "Nomads of Valinor", "Sentinels of Valinor", and any future
      Valinor clan recognized as official by the existing Valinor clans.

1.2   CB2Bank - The current economic clan of CB2Bank, and any future clan
      recognized as official by the existing CB2Bank.

1.3   Loan - Item(s) or amount of wealth made available to the borrower for
      private use, which will be returned or repaid at a specified date.

1.4   Loan Period - Length of time that a loan will exist.  At the end of the
      Loan Period, the Loan must be returned or repaid.  Failure to return or
      repay the Loan will be place the loan into Default and result in Loan

1.5   Loan Interest - An amount of item(s) or money that will be added to a Loan
      at specified intervals during the Loan Period.  Loan Interest is
      considered separate from Loan Penalties.

1.6   Loan Penalty - An amount of item(s), money, or services that are applied
      to a Loan when it is placed into Default.  Loan Penalties are considered
      separate from Loan Interest.

1.7   Service Fee - A fee charged for services.  This fee is considered separate
      from Interest and Penalties.

1.8   Forge/Forging - The act of improving an item via the Forge, accessible via
      the Business menu of Carnage Blender.

1.9   Blacksmith - The automatic system of improving an item, accessible via the
      Business menu of Carnage Blender.

1.10  Rentals - The automatic system of renting an item, accessible via the
      Business menu of Carnage Blender.

1.11  Customer - The member of Valinor requesting a loan or service.

1.12  Bank Agent - A player empowered by CB2Bank to carry out assigned services.

1.13  Liaison - Appointed member of each party (Valinor and CB2Bank) that will
      serve as a primary point of contact for that party.

1.14  Guarantor - Player responsible for loan(s) made to other players.

1.15  USD-Ratio - Amount of CB2$ that the specified amount of USD will purchase.
      This term will be used for amounts that will grow with inflation.  At the
      time of this contract, the ratio is 31911.45 CB2$ to 1 USD$.

1.16  Week - Seven (7) day period that begins on Monday.

1.17  Server Time - Time that is displayed on the Community page of the Game.
      Currently, that time is set to Eastern Standard Time.

Section 2 - Liaison

2.1   Liaison for Valinor will be BrandonLP.

2.2   Liaison for CB2Bank will be Bubo and Barron.

Section 3 - Non-compete Agreement

3.1   Valinor will agree to not start or fund any bank service(s) other than
      CB2Bank without approval from CB2Bank for the life of this contract.

3.2   Valinor will agree to not start or fund any bank services for a period of
      thirty (30) days after the end of this contract.  This is to protect
      confidential information that CB2Bank will be sharing during this

3.3   Valinor will agree to not attempt to recruit CB2Bank members without
      approval from the Leader(s) of CB2Bank.  Requests for approval may be
      initiated through the Liaisons.

3.4   CB2Bank will agree to not attempt to recruit Valinor members without
      approval from the Leader(s) of Valinor.  Requests for approval may be
      initiated through the Liaisons.

Section 4 - Loans

4.1   Valinor will appoint one or more members as Guarantors of all loans made
      to Valinor members.  These Guarantor(s) will be responsible for any
      outstanding or defaulted loans provided to a Customer, regardless of
      current status of Customer.

4.2   Responsibility for repayment of loans, fees, interest, and penalties will
      become the responsibility of the Guarantor(s) if the Customer leaves
      Valinor, the borrower stops logging into the game, the Customer is banned
      or suspended from the game, or if the Customer remains in default for a
      period longer than fourteen (14) days.

4.3   CB2Bank pledges to pre-approve all Valinor members that the Valinor
      liaison appoints for loan amounts of up to thirty USD-Ratio ($30) for a
      period of seven (7) days.

4.4   CB2Bank pledges to approve loan amounts over thirty USD-Ratio ($30)
      pending the CB2Bank liaison approval and fund availability for a period of
      no more than fourteen (14) days.

4.5   CB2Bank pledges to approve loan periods of more than seven (7) days
      pending the CB2Bank liaison approval and fund availability.

4.6   CB2Bank pledges to waive Loan Interest on loans for amounts that are under
      ninety USD-Ratio ($90).  In place of Loan Interest, a flat Service Fee of
      the larger of 7% of total loan amount or twenty thousand (20,000) CB2$
      will be assessed.

Section 5 - Secured Loans

5.1   CB2Bank pledges to provide secured loans to all Valinor members with no
      Service Fees or Interest.

5.2   Valinor pledges to allow CB2Bank to place the item that is used to secure
      a loan into Rentals for the period of the loan, plus the time necessary to
      complete the last rental made before the loan period ends.

5.3   CB2Bank pledges to allow Valinor to borrow the item that is used to secure
      the loan for the Loan Period, but in this event standard fees and interest
      will apply.

Section 6 - Forging

6.1   CB2Bank pledges to provide forging services at a discounted rate to all
      members of Valinor.

  6.1.1   Melee Weapons will be forged for 60% of Blacksmith fees.

  6.1.2   Ranged weapons will be forged for 70% of Blacksmith fees.

  6.1.2   Armor will be forged for 65% of Blacksmith fees.

6.2   Discounted forging services may be delayed up to five (5) days in favor of
      higher rate forge jobs if the Valinor forge orders total less than
      forty-three USD-Ratio ($43) per week.

6.3   Valinor will be responsible for determining the order of work when
      multiple members place orders during the same period of time.

Section 7 - Black Market Services

7.1   Due to the limited number of Black Market votes available to CB2Bank, full
      rate will be charged for Black Market votes and Black Market auctions.

Section 8 - Item Purchase Services

8.1   CB2Bank pledges to provide discounted Item Purchase Services to acquire
      FS/WTB and auction items.

  8.1.1   20% down payment will be required at time of order.

  8.1.2   The difference between down payment and purchase amount will be
          subject to a flat Service Fee of the larger of 7% of total loan amount
          or ten thousand (10,000) CB2$ instead of standard Loan Interest.

  8.1.3   Customer will allow CB2Bank to place the item into Rentals until the
          item is paid in full.

  8.1.4   Customer may borrow the item before the loan is paid in full, but in
          this event a Service Fee of ten thousand (10,000) CB2$ plus transfer
          fee will be applied.

Section 9 - Escrow Services

9.1   Escrow services will be provided to Valinor free of charge.

Section 10 - Casino Services

10.1  Casino services are games of chance.  Due to their nature, no special
      discounts or bonuses will be provided to Valinor on Casino services.

Section 11 - Agent of the Bank

11.1  Valinor members may request to be named a Bank Agent.

  11.1.1   Prospective Bank Agent must be trained and approved by CB2Bank

  11.1.2   Bank Agent will be responsible for any funds entrusted to them by
           CB2Bank.  They will serve as Guarantor for any loans made to
           non-Valinor members.

11.2  Bank Agents will be required to provide designated loans to any player
      pre-approved by CB2Bank at the time of request, pending fund availability.

11.3  Bank Agents may broker loans in the name of CB2Bank.

  11.3.1    Loans provided to Valinor members in accordance with section 4.3
            will follow the agreements outlined in section 4.

  11.3.2    Loans may be brokered with non-Valinor members.   Loan payments will be sent to the CB2Bank Liaison.   Bank Agent will earn 33% of interest collected from Loan.   CB2Bank will earn 67% of interest collected from Loan.

  11.3.3   Loans may not be provided to Valinor members for the express purpose
           of repaying another CB2Bank loan without the approval of CB2Bank

  11.3.4   Any loan brokered by Bank Agents must be immediately reported to
           CB2Bank Liaison for proper tracking and reimbursement of funds to
           Bank Agent.

Section 12 - Financial Analysis Services

12.1  CB2Bank pledges that Financial Analysis Services such as CB2$ to USD$
      Ratio and Item Valuation will be provided without fee.

12.2  Valinor pledges that they will not give, share, or disclose this
      information to any non-Valinor player.

12.3  Valinor pledges that they will only sell this information at the current
      price charged by CB2Bank.

12.4  Valinor pledges that they will reimburse CB2Bank 80% of fee collected for
      sale of this information.

Section 13 - Tattoo Levelling Services

This is a recent addition, and the proposal is still being worked out.  Details will be posted ASAP.

Section 14 - Contract Service Fee

14.1  Valinor pledges to provide the larger of either 10% of USD-Ratio or five
      thousand (5,000) CB2$ per week per person in Valinor.  This fee may not be
      larger than fifty thousand (50,000) CB2$ per week per person in Valinor.

14.2  Valinor will be tasked with collecting fees from Valinor members and
      sending fees to CB2Bank Liaison.

14.3  Valinor Guarantors will be liable for unpaid fees for the life of this

14.4  This Service Fee will be due by Noon every Monday per Server Time.

14.5  Service Fee may be pre-paid for any length of time.  No discount will be
      given for pre-paid fees, but the weekly fee will be locked to the fee at
      time of pre-payment for the period of pre-payment.

Section 15 - Disputes

15.1  Disputes, complaints, and disagreements will be lodged with the Liaison's.

15.2  Disputes, complaints, and disagreements must be responded to within 48
      hours.  These issues may not be pressed or pressured until after 48 hours.
      Additional information related to these issues may be provided before 48

15.3  If an amicable agreement cannot be reached after 96 hours, the issue will
      go before the leaders of Valinor and CB2Bank to be resolved in the best
      interests of the Agreement and the Clans.

15.4  If the leaders of Valinor and CB2Bank cannot resolve the issue, a willing
      Administrator may be requested to arbitrate the dispute.

   15.1.1   If an issue progresses to this point, a Contract Amendment may be
            requested without regard to the scheduled requests as defined in
            Section 16.4.

Section 16 - Contract Amendment

16.1  Over the course of time there will be events that will affect the items
      covered by this contract.  In order to accommodate these changes, the
      Contract will need to be amended.

16.2  Contract Amendments may be requested every 90 days without provocation.
      These requests will not be viewed as criticising the Contract, Agreement,
      or Parties.

16.3  Contract Amendments may be requested after a Changelog event that modifies
      any item covered by this contract.  These requests will not be viewed as
      criticising the Contract, Agreement, or Parties.

16.4  Contract Amendments may be requested after a Dispute, Complaint, or
      Disagreement that requires arbitration by an Administrator.

16.5  Contract Amendments will take the form of Appended Items at the end of the
      Contract.  Appended Sections will supersede and replace the Contract
      Sections that they affect.

Section 17 - Contract Dissolution

17.1  After 180 days, either party can request an end to this Contract.  Such
      requests will be considered No Fault, and no fee or penalty will be
      assessed against either party.

17.2  An end to this Contract may be requested at any time.

   17.2.1   The Party requesting the end of Contract will be considered the
            Breaking Party.  The Breaking Party is not necessarily At Fault for
            the reasons leading to the requested end of Contract.

   17.2.2   The Breaking Party will be assessed a Contract Break Fee of three
            hundred USD-Ratio ($300).

17.3  When an end of Contract is requested and after any fees or penalties are

   17.3.1   Contract Service Fee will be suspended from that date.  CB2Bank will
            refund any pre-paid Contract Service Fee, pro-rated to end of
            Contract, within seven (7) days.  This amount may be deducted from
            the Contract Break Fee if Valinor is the Breaking Party.

   17.3.2   Existing loans, forge orders, and services will conclude under the
            terms they were made under.

   17.3.3   New loans, forge orders, and services will be made at standard rates
            and terms.

   17.3.4   Contract will be considered at end at the conclusion of existing
            loans, forge orders, and services.  For purpose of Section 3.2, this
            will be the start of the waiting period.

   17.3.5   After payment of fees and penalties, and conclusion of existing
            loan, forging, and service contracts, both parties will have no
            further outstanding obligation to each other.

deifeln February 18 2005 6:53 PM EST


Pronell [] February 18 2005 6:54 PM EST

I just gotta say that when I first logged onto the next back in 1991... I never saw this kind of thing coming. Truly amazing.
Contracts written in legalese for an online game community / commodities market, complete with speculators, outside investors, and political machinations. The only thing it's missing is real estate. Heh.

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] February 18 2005 7:10 PM EST

Real Estate Owned: Bank, Pawn Shop, Forge, Auction House, Casino, Black Market :)

Mythology February 18 2005 7:15 PM EST

As for some reason it was felt this was to be made public, I will say I am not happy with it nor am I going to ask my members to sign up to it. Whoever the liasons may be or feel to have something to do with this, these round table dicussions, I think its time they happened before this was written out.

SBW February 18 2005 7:15 PM EST

I'm not going to try to read all that...
Does this mean valinor becomes even more powerful =$
Me thinks another anti-Valinor change is coming

{CB1}Lukeyman February 18 2005 7:19 PM EST

I don't really approve, But thats me.

Its just like.... too much.... stuff..... Valinor seems to be losing more than gaining.

ArcaneTheory February 18 2005 7:25 PM EST

I got to about 17.2.2; all I can say is no..Plain and simple.

Mythicpunk [Mythic Punks] February 18 2005 7:27 PM EST

took enough time to get the gist of it... i think. Should this really be available to "the public" i.e. non-involved parties?

doesnt seem too bad for either side, depends how much forging goes on, etc.

As a random thought, in another MMO, "real estate" (a virtual island) was recently sold for the equivalent of ~26.5k USD.

Online games have come a long way...

{CB1}Lukeyman February 18 2005 7:30 PM EST

What game????

/me wants a peice of this

Mythicpunk [Mythic Punks] February 18 2005 7:34 PM EST

It's called Project Entropia...

played it for a bit... it's very.... eh.

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] February 18 2005 7:50 PM EST

Very interesting....It seems there must be some disconnect somewhere. Because, this proposal and agreement was brought to CB2BANK, and prior to posting it, was supposedly agreed upon by all Valinorians.

However being somewhat cautious when it comes to these matters, I recommended posting it so that a good discussion can occur.

Becoming February 18 2005 7:59 PM EST

14.1 & 17.2.2 means I'm giving this a big no. Otherwise, it's an interesting idea.

Fuhgawz February 18 2005 8:14 PM EST


ArcaneTheory February 18 2005 8:15 PM EST

Other than mild chatter between Bubo and Brandon, this is the first time I really heard about this...I think maybe a nice clanmail or something would have been better than tossing it into the forums before it was agreed on...Maybe revise it and try it that way first. :-)

Fuhgawz February 18 2005 8:26 PM EST

Um you guys did take this contract and had it noterized didn't you?

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] February 18 2005 8:32 PM EST

LOL. I should have had the Valinor representative post this. Then maybe all the comments would have come from CB2Bankers. hehe. Well this contract may not be worth the paper that it's not on, but it was worth a try. The overwhelming response is: "This is a game--leave it that way" And I don't disagree with that at all :)

BooDiggens February 18 2005 10:02 PM EST

The question I ask myself, after reading this, is how could this agreement help gameplay for the community as a whole. In my opinion, I don't think it would. Being a former clan fighter myself, I know the perils of having to compete with the awesome tactics used by Valinor clan's to ensure good clan rewards. An agreement of this magnitude would, seemingly, help Valinor to become even stronger.
Now I am not knocking the idea as a whole. The idea of having a large account customer seems integral to CB2Bank growth. But in that pursuit of becoming the major force in banking on CB2, I don't think we should forget about the beginners and the players who don't have the liberty of being in one of the more formidable forces in CB. It is for these players that I speak now.
After only recently joining with CB2Bank, I am not sure how much weight my opinion has in this matter. I only urge everyone involved to think of how this merger will affect gameplay, as a whole, in the Community of Carnage Blender.

Mythology February 18 2005 10:42 PM EST

The deal is not going to be much like it is now, there were quite a few misunderstandings I guess, and was never a erm merger...

BooDiggens February 18 2005 10:53 PM EST

That was the wrong choice of words there Myth. Replace it with agreement.

BrandonLP February 18 2005 11:32 PM EST

I'm glad Bubo posted it. I haven't had a chance to go into a lot of the specifics about other than changing things here or there. With that said, I'm not agreeing with it completely until the following is changed:

"14.1 Valinor pledges to provide the larger of either 10% of USD-Ratio or five
thousand (5,000) CB2$ per week per person in Valinor. This fee may not be
larger than fifty thousand (50,000) CB2$ per week per person in Valinor."

I agreed to 5k per member per week as discussed in chat. I refuse to go any higher than that. That's not negotiable.

"17.2.2 The Breaking Party will be assessed a Contract Break Fee of three
hundred USD-Ratio ($300)."

Fave and I discussed that and decided that it was way too high. It could reach nearly 30 million, which is an absurd amount. I'm willing to say 5 million, pure and simple. I realize inflation is something that needs to be considered, but honestly, the equivalent of $300 USD in CB2 is just absurd.

Other than that, I don't see anything I can't live with.

Undertow February 18 2005 11:37 PM EST

5k a week for 60% forging and some loan crap I'll never use?

What's the problem? I'm all for it.

as for 17.2.2, change it to a much much much smaller amount and smaller amount of time.

Also, consider maybe making this available to individual Valinor members instead compulsitory.

BTW, this DID just say I can get 65% forging on a HoD, right?

Undertow February 18 2005 11:39 PM EST

OH, or 10%? Of what? NW? Yah..... how about like... 2%? Or you know, a flat 5k. Come on man, your making many every where else too.

Alienfb February 19 2005 5:40 AM EST

After reading through i think we should walk away.

I for one would rather just pay the man whatever it costs when the time comes, loans fees, forging or the next thing that Jon has up his sleeve.

This game is too unpredictable for contracts.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 19 2005 5:44 AM EST


That's a lot to take in...

One question at the moment. 6.2. If a forging service is delayed and the item has already been sent to CB2Bank, I take it the item will be sent back if CB2Bank already has it - without paying for this transfer fee, or if the item was only loaned then the Valinor player re imbursed the cost of the loan to loan it again after 5 days.

Todd February 19 2005 7:30 AM EST

Don't overlook alienfb's point.

{CB1}Lukeyman February 19 2005 7:39 AM EST

I agree with Alien, What if we just accepted this, and then Jon made this new thingy of some sort that crashed this whole thing down to bits? then we'd all be in a big mess :p

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] February 19 2005 10:09 AM EST

This thing goes both ways. CB2Bank is happy to continue business as usual. We were approached with this deal by members of Valinor. CB2BANK is always interested in creating solid mutually beneficial deals, so we listened carefully, and really made few demands or conditions. I respect members of Valinor, but I'm disappointed.

At this point, I would like additional feedback from members of the CB2Bank Investors Club. Particularly, I'd like feedback from our forgers.

CB2BANK is ready and willing to continue providing the dependable trustworthy service we have built our reputation on. This started off as a friendly agreement to help a large group who approached us. We'll take a step back and see what everyone wants. Both clan representatives will talk about some of these issues.

Personally, I'd prefer to leave things the way they are now. But I'll listen to reasonable offers made by reasonable people. But, CB2BANK is not going to bend over....backwards.

Stephen February 20 2005 9:28 PM EST

But you will bend over.... forwards?

Shadowcat February 21 2005 2:48 AM EST

I still don't know whether to be incredibly impressed or incredibly terrified at all the thought Barron puts into the CB2Bank stuff, are you a lawyer or banker in real life Barron?

AdminShade February 21 2005 6:52 AM EST

"[Loan Officer] Barron, February 18 2005 7:50 PM EST
Very interesting....It seems there must be some disconnect somewhere. Because, this proposal and agreement was brought to CB2BANK, and prior to posting it, was supposedly agreed upon by all Valinorians. "

sorry to say but I am a Valinorian and i did NOT even know about this until i got some chat mails of Mythology about it...

i do not agree atm to any of the terms.

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] February 21 2005 9:51 AM EST

Thank you for all the constructive criticism and comments regarding this proposal. I've had time to think about this over the weekend, and I've spoken to members of both clans, and to Bubo and Brandon.

It is impossible to believe that an agreement like this would truly work. Although we are in clans, we all function as individuals toward some common goal--but we are still independent and make our own deals and purchases. CB2BANK is similar in that we work independently, but within the framework of an economic clan, and help one another whenever we can.

With that said, there is no need for a broad sweeping agreement in any contractual form. I would recommend that the friendly atmosphere developed between individuals continue, and ultimately a strong working relationship will evolve. The forgers can work out their own deals with Valinorians, and the rest of the CB2 community for that matter. I don't have a say in that at all. And as far as the banking end is concerned, I believe CB2BANK has always been fair and reasonable and honest, and I intend to continue along that path.

Thank you all very much.

LumpBot February 21 2005 10:49 AM EST

Very well said Barron, I think it will work for the better. And if any Valinor wants some forging discounts, they can propose and take it up to the forgers of CB2 Bank. At least that way I know what I'm getting myself into =P
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