CoBF 101- I want to understand this wonderful cloak (in General)

Todd February 21 2005 3:10 PM EST

What I know:

CoBF blocks Fireball. It has to be upgraded to block larger FBs. Ok, this I understand.

What I would like to know is how it works vs melee damage? Specifically:

1. Does the upgrade level dictate the damage done to the attacking tank?
2. Does the upgrade level supply AC as well?

My fight results have piqued my interest in this cloak. When I fight a character who is sporting a CoBF, I lose if my tank has a weapon, but I win if I go weaponless. Yeah, didn't make sense to me, either.

Example: (for the sake of spell check, I changed the names)

My players:
Minion 1's familiar: ToJ familiar
Tank: My tank

His players:
Minion 2: the CoBF wearer.
Minion 3: his other minion

Minion 1's familiar tapped Minion 2 [4341]
Minion 1's familiar burns from the flames surrounding Minion 2 (45725)
Minion 3 is splashed by the flames around Minion 2 (1112)
Tank snicked Minion 2 [3145]
Tank burns from the flames surrounding Minion 2 (60718)
Minion 3 is splashed by the flames around Minion 2 (1161)

That's some mighty damage from that cloak :)

Todd February 21 2005 3:14 PM EST

BTW, his cloak is 0+13

QBRanger February 21 2005 3:18 PM EST

Yes, the higher the upgrade on the cloak the more damage it does in melee combat. No, the + on the cloak does not give you an AC bonus.

Majestik Moose February 21 2005 3:24 PM EST

also, the damage done is affected by opponents AC, so the big melee tanks better get some of that .. (too bad jigs can't :)

Bubo [DTC of Bubo] February 21 2005 3:25 PM EST

"I lose if my tank has a weapon, but I win if I go weaponless."

CoBF creates an aura of flame around the wearer. It only hurts you if you get too close to it, which causes it to flare. This happens if you strike with a melee weapon. If you have no melee weapon, then you don't get too close and so it can't hurt you. I'd imagine a weaponless tank would just be running away from that freakin' cloak like it came from Hot Topic or something.

Unarmed Combat does trigger the cloak, although why someone would be stupid enough to punch an open flame is beyond me. Perhaps they are *really* offended by Hot Topic.

On the other hand, I always imagined the friendly spill-over from the cloak flaring to be because that idiot who just set him/herself on fire is running into my guys while trying to put it out.

QBsutekh137 February 21 2005 3:33 PM EST

Todd, simply put, your tank gets to act as a shield when weaponless against the CoBF. With a weapon, he commits suicide, so you lose both his offense AND defense.

As far as CoBF damage dealt, the figure 4000 per point sticks in my head. But that may be the (capped) amount of FB damage it blocks per point, not a cap on damage dealt. I don't know if there is more in the Changelog or not.

QBsutekh137 February 21 2005 3:38 PM EST

In reading the most recent change log entry for the CBF:

- cost per upgrade point is now constant
- dmg output per point lowered
- protects against other CBF dmg as well as Fireball
- amount of fire protection capped at 4k per point

looks like the damage inflicted per point is not public knowledge, but it did get lowered. The 4K figure in my head is the cap on fire protection per point.

One other piece of chat wisdom involves using a ranged weapon in melee. Then you still get some offense from your tank without taking CBF damage. The offset of that is that you lose the Archery bonus damage, only fire every other round, and burn through more arrows.

Todd February 21 2005 3:41 PM EST

Ah, I see. Very interesting.

So, this 60,000 damage is normal for a +13 cloak. Wowser. I gotta get me one of those :)

So, how are tanks supposed to compete in CB2 again? oh yeah, Tat of augmentation.. no, wait, that doesn't even catch him up to the ToJ's out there. "Don't use a tank, silly boy". Erm.. ok.. is that the answer?

QBsutekh137 February 21 2005 3:51 PM EST

AC is still something that will grow with time, Todd. Slowly, yet inexorably, tanks will grow stronger and stronger. One thing that remains to be seen is what the flat upgrade curve of the CBF will do in response. The last guy to speculate and question that (GentlemanLoser) go the response "or you could just assume I am not a complete idiot" from Jonathan.

There appear to be a great number of things that, by my (admittedly slap-dash) reckoning, are not going to equilibrate until we have many folks north of the 500K PR level or so. I see very few tanks catching the ToJs before then (unless singletons or augmented), and with the CBF upgrade curve being constant, one does have to wonder a bit how long it will take for AC to allow a tank to survive against the flames. Let's say it takes 10 million or so to get a tank to 200 AC (I can't remember an exact figure). 10 million constitutes a +100 CBF if I am shifting the zeroes correctly. That's a lot of flame. Time will tell.

Bubo [DTC of Bubo] February 21 2005 4:13 PM EST

You could use a ToE and knock out 70-80% (still under debate) of that. :)

Actually, does anyone know if a ToE protects from CoBF? I think it does, but can't recall where I discovered that.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] February 21 2005 4:22 PM EST

;) I don't question CBF s anymore! ;)

There was a FS post that listed the largest CBF (+34?) doing about 200K fire damage. And a comparison of the max Max blow (Spids?) being around 15K...

spydah February 21 2005 4:32 PM EST

Fear (19,057)
Spid (17,652)

200k? fun fun


CT [Monopoly] February 21 2005 6:47 PM EST

/me wonders how long it will take before this cloak gets major nerfed.

Arorrr February 21 2005 9:55 PM EST

Change month is coming up. Just hold your breath...

QBsutekh137 February 21 2005 10:08 PM EST

Considering the cloak was just recently tweaked, I wouldn't hold your breath for a nerf for a while. We need to wait and see how it works out at the (much) higher levels.

InebriatedArsonist February 21 2005 10:18 PM EST

Come on, the cloak already has enough negatives associated with it. You can't use it with a tattoo on the same minion and you can't use any enchantments or skills with it. And let's not forget Jon already was nice enough to lower the protection the cloak gives per point. What more do you guys want?

MrC [DodgingTheEvilForgeFees] February 21 2005 10:30 PM EST

"So, how are tanks supposed to compete in CB2 again? oh yeah, Tat of augmentation.. no, wait, that doesn't even catch him up to the ToJ's out there. "Don't use a tank, silly boy". Erm.. ok.. is that the answer?"

Wait for a few more characters to get high NW and high stats, before long it'll be "Dont use a mage, silly boy". ;)

CoBFs do really deal some nice damage, however, they will only get weaker as time goes on. AC goes up and lowers their damage, ST/DX go up increasing weapon damage. CoBFs just fall behind. Alongside ToJs they're king of the newb equipment but far from the best items in the game.

QBsutekh137 February 21 2005 10:37 PM EST

IA, the tattoo issue is not a big deal (stop thinking like a single-minion specialist *smile*) There are other places to put a tattoo on a team.

Also, for a pure tank (just STR, DEX, HP) or a specialized DD minion, the cloak is perfect. We are even seeing the devoted COBF "wall" minion becoming fairly common. Again, if you think in terms of more than one minion, the CBF limitations become much less...limiting.

Finally, the main beef people have with the CBF is the same one they had in CB1 -- too much power at low levels. 200K blows being affordable in a game not even 2 months old? That is hard to swallow when you consider the most powerful blow record has barely reached the 20K vicinity -- 10% of the highest CBF damage (and that CBF damage is not that expensive).

Sure, we should probably just sit tight, just like with the massive ToJs. Hopefully it will all equilibrate. That will be what I am watching for. I don't like thinking that even after several more months of generating as much PR as humanly possible might still leave me completely ineffectual against large ToJs or CBFs. I don't think that opinion is entirely out of line.

[From CB1]Tequito February 21 2005 11:46 PM EST

My solution: Play cb1! bwahahahahahahaha!

Todd February 22 2005 6:02 AM EST

I suppose Chet and others are right. Think long term. The 60k damage that a +13 CoBf will pale in comparison to the 500k hits that a 2,000,000 PR tank will eventually hit.

The problem is that those that own these items are at a huge advantage until other teams reach the point where NW and experience catch up. It's not like Jon to have it so unbalanced at any stage of the game. "Or you could assume I am not an idiot" he tells us. Well, I'm not calling it idiocy, but what shall I call it when a cloak does x10 the damage of the most powerful tank in the game after 2 months?

Quark February 22 2005 9:19 AM EST

Maybe Jon should make an uber-whip that can hit the CoBF wearer without any back splash! The CoBF has already reduced the DD popularity of FB so that it's not as broadly appealing for blocking DD spells. And Todd - you're not running solo anyway, so having your tank die when you face a CoBF is offset by your MM mage.
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