Can you beat a higher PR character? (in General)


Todd March 23 2005 6:24 AM EST

I'm curious how many of us can beat an opponent with a higher Power Rating than our own? Not score.. I'm looking for PR.

Use the total PR, not the minion PR please. Just check your fight list, and let me know:

1. Can you beat anyone who has a higher PR than you do?
2. If yes, how many? 1? 3? 10?
3. If the number is more than say, 3. What do you attribute it to? A big Tat, flawless strategy, NW, super rare-deadly equipment (ie, CoBf vs Susan Death).

I'm just curious. I cannot beat one person higher than my PR, or even near my PR. I attribute this to horrible strategy since I am undergoing a transition from ETM(with ToJ) to ET(with ToA), and my tank HPs are too low.

Anyways, post away. There are surely other factors I have not considered that those of you much smarter than I will identify.

krasko March 23 2005 6:31 AM EST

for me there are 8 and i think thats becouse i am only at 30k pr;)

Chocolate Thunder March 23 2005 6:34 AM EST

looks like i can beat 8 or 9 above my PR at the mo. And basically i can attribute it to having one big damage dealer with a whole lot of defense and HPs.

QBJohnnywas March 23 2005 6:40 AM EST

My favorites list is sitting at 39 at the moment. My pr is 99k. I have 8 people on my list at a lower or equal pr. The rest are above my pr. The top pr on my list is 157k.

My char Raven is a 4 minion EEEM team, although my AMF enchanter also has decay. My mage is CoC equipped with a quite large LToE. Without the tattoo I can't beat half the list, although that has nothing to do with pr. I can still beat a few higher pr without it. In my case I know that certain strategies are vulnerable to mine so I looked for them at higher score/pr's. For instance, a single archer is very vulnerable to the 4 minion team so I picked on a few of those. People who are weak in ranged are vulnerable to CoC. So again I looked for that. I also occasionally will 'waste' 40 or so BA just fighting in a higher score or pr to see who I can beat.

Nothing very clever but it works for me. =)

QBBast [Hidden Agenda] March 23 2005 6:41 AM EST


Using either the PR or MPR list there are 6 above me, of which I can consistently beat 2 -- attributable to the hormones, most probably.

Sedecim March 23 2005 6:45 AM EST

I use a 240K PR single fireball mage and I can't beat anyone above my PR. I can get some draws consistently, but that's bad for my clanpoints. Also quite a few people, above my PR, I can beat in two tries, but that's just a waist of BA.

Majestik Moose March 23 2005 6:47 AM EST

hmm.. I don't think any char with higher PR can beat me.. but then again, I cannot really beat them either.. Totally attributed to my ability to make stalemates.

PoisoN March 23 2005 7:18 AM EST

Just tried a few higher PR chars, could beat 5 of 8. TOS level is about 50% of my PR, strategy is uninspired, 1.5 mil NW, the only special stuff equipped is a corn and a MCM.

LumpBot March 23 2005 7:20 AM EST

I can beat almost all the EEMM near or slightly above my PR because 50% of my exp goes to AMF.

AdminShade March 23 2005 7:45 AM EST

atm i can only beat a few characters above my pr but i haven't checked many.

Phaete March 23 2005 7:58 AM EST

5 due to luck :)

[Redneck RV] Truc March 23 2005 8:44 AM EST

I beat at least 8 higher PR... attributed mostly to a 2 mill Exec I got for 800k, I suppose.

I'm EET (with a ToJ on #2), so I do particularly well against those who have invested heavily in AMF.

Todd March 23 2005 8:53 AM EST

Actually, I did a further study.

I can beat 4 people above my PR - just not every time, and 2 of them are not in clans.

Only reason I beat them is because I decimate them in ranged.. they are weaker than most to that strategy. No ToJ is key here. :)

QBJohnnywas March 23 2005 8:57 AM EST

I fought against you - I could beat you in two battles which isn't too shabby I guess. Your ranged is strong and that AMF is actually what killed my mage. But your melee is weak in comparison. That's likely to be a problem sooner or later. With the ToJ's around and endurance and a spell as powerful as CoC (which is gaining ground in the popularity stakes) any tank is either going to have to be huge in ranged - or huge in HP and be able to survive to and dominate in melee.

Todd March 23 2005 9:07 AM EST

Yeah, I am focusing on ranged. I have archery, which allows more hits, and increased damage in ranged. But, it is just pathetic in melee. I do more damage with a $800,000 katana than with a $5M elbow per hit in melee, and the elbow doesn't fire every other round.

Doing rough math here, if you take say 5 rounds of melee, the elbow does about 75% of the damage as my katana, but only in 2 of those rounds. So.. across 5 rounds, the elbow does 30% of the damage my katana, which is 1/6th the NW or the bow.

QBJohnnywas March 23 2005 9:12 AM EST

Might be time to switch skills - archery to bloodlust and start pumping up the katana - or try and get a morg. You'd find a use for the Mage Shield then as well. If the lower nw weapon is doing better for you in the long run then surely that's where you should be spending more money?

Concentrate on melee - that would be my advice for taking on higher pr's. Especially as plenty of teams below you are doing just that. Pretty soon a lot of those teams will be above you in pr and what will you do then? =)

QBRanger March 23 2005 9:17 AM EST

Johnny,

Todd cannot use a Mage Shield with a TOA.

Todd March 23 2005 9:22 AM EST

Well, for one thing, I can't use a MgS. I have a ToA.

I'm doing so much damage in ranged, but it's not doing me a lot of good when I have crappy melee. I am working on that with HP. I'll eventually secure a decent melee weapon. A Katana is decent, but not worthy of a 1M PR character.

QBJohnnywas March 23 2005 9:25 AM EST

Oh yeah - missed the ToA. Trying to work at the same time as doing this - not good for concentration!

If you're facing up to endurance CoC et al then the Morg or BoTh seem to be the best bets. At the moment CB seems to be about who is staying alive for longer, not who is killing quicker. =)

[EG] Almuric March 23 2005 9:34 AM EST

I can't beat anyone above me in PR. 4 reasons for this:

1) Pretty much everyone above me has a much bigger Tattoo.
2) I'm kind of at the cusp of the pretty active and the 'never-miss-a-BA' active. I buy BA during wacky XP about 50% of the time. Pretty much everyone above me buys all their BA every day, so there's a PR gap. With equal PR and Tat, I'd like to think I'd be competitive.
3) Net Worth - some people above and around me have much bigger NW. (I'm renting a couple of items right now.)
4) CoBF - I'm a slugger, so I get hit big by opponent's CoBF. The one I have is a rental and it's small.

I can beat several people near me in PR and I stalemate a few mainly because I can't get past their big tattoos.

Thought about going back to ET myself. I'd hoped that the third minion would provide DD offense. The plethora of AMFs up here quickly disabused me of that notion. (I could have probably figured that out if I'd thought about it. Stupid me.) So now he's an enchanter and will be the eventual TJK wearer when I get a CoBF for my tank. It works out pretty well if I put the tat on the second minion - pretty much the same battle results. The endurance on the TJKs is quite powerful - he always survives to melee.

So to sum up, I can't beat anyone above me but I'm not worried about it.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] March 23 2005 9:56 AM EST

Out of the 39 people on my favorite list (all in clans) looks like about 20-25 are bigger than my PR and I win consistantly against all my opponents. I lose occasionally, but would say I win 95% of all the fights I initiate on my fight list. I attribute it to a very large NW and the concentration of a single tank with a ToA. I use seekers to avoid needing AMF so I can train pretty much just HP, which allows me to have much higher stats than someone of equal PR.

AngryZac March 23 2005 10:04 AM EST

Everyone on my fight list is above my PR, it's only about 9 or 10 people though, and often I get draws. Since I'm not in a clan I don't get too bothered by this. I do fight high above my PR though, because I have an oversized tat. So I fight around 80-100k score and I'm 31k PR...guess it's mostly the tat doing it for me?

QBRanger March 23 2005 10:18 AM EST

Everyone is above my pr on my fight list.

Probably due to my high NW.
Possibly due to my strat.

Arorrr March 23 2005 10:37 AM EST

LOL @ Ranger.. he's the KING of Melee. I love his strat though his strat only work with substaintial amount of network.

I have 9 PR+ on my fav list and a few more at my 202K PR level.

My strat based on only in FB and work well at this PR level. I cannot win against anyone with large CoBF or big NW. At higher PR, I'll start lagging behind since NW will dominate.

moser March 23 2005 10:39 AM EST

I didn't check my whole fight list, but of the first 8, 7 were higher PR, I have about 20 - 25 on the whole list.

ECheok March 23 2005 10:50 AM EST

i am a small PR char (about 27KPR) and i could beat 9 people which have higher PR then me. only 3 of them are in clan though.

i think the key is AMF? well... deal heaps back on AMF.

keep loosing to Higher Networth guys. and people who have special gears.

that is my 2cents.

Blarg March 23 2005 11:08 AM EST

the only two people i know of that i can beat are world of warcraft at PR 49,748, and tscm at 47,702. My PR is Power Rating: 41,308. I beat them in about 10 rounds and 6 rounds, respectively. I attribute it to a near perfect strat :). near perfect because i am still missing a key part, but once that comes i shall be beating everyone.

Myonax March 23 2005 11:25 AM EST

9 of the 22 people on my fight list have higher PR then me. But they are all strategies that are weak to me and hand picked.

QBsutekh137 March 23 2005 11:56 AM EST

I would just like to second Almuric's comment about DD seeming pretty useless up here. Yes, some top teams run it well, but with AMF, CBFs, and now mage shields, DD becomes less and less attractive. I mean, I have my mage out in front of my tank now simply because he kills himself by the 6th or 7th round anyway. Up my DD level, and I just kill myself faster. Up my HP, and I fall behind to other AMFs. It is very tempting to convert a mage into an enchanter these days, and I am worried that we are going to end up with lots of tank teams, or tank/wall teams.

To be honest, a new item that foiled mages even more was the LAST thing I expected. I use the Mage Shield because it is a dang decent shield regardless up to 20-25 AC, and it sure beats a Kite. But what I need now is a batter way to beat a tank, and DD sure is not a means of doing so.

Sorry for the tangent.

[FireBreathing]Chicken March 23 2005 12:15 PM EST

Todd, try training CoC on you're tank. You can do decent damage with even a small CoC, and you can stop pumpin networth into that (useless) katana.

Biscuitback March 23 2005 12:26 PM EST

i defeat a lot of people with higher pr. i don't have much equipment but a low level tat considering my pr, a katana and a compound. but i use a tank and a mage. my tank is in front with a coc mage equipped with a toi.

[FireBreathing]Chicken March 23 2005 12:31 PM EST

I started a post on this possibility somewhere, look for it yourself. :p

Here are just some advantages of using a dual char.

You don't kill yourself when you attack a big CoBF
Save lots of Networth which could be better spent on you're massive bow.
You're range disables a couple minions in ranged, CoC will be concentrated on 1 or 2 minions, and thus taking minimal from GA.
Similar to a basic TM strat except you have assurance that your mage will make it to melee.
Grants somewhat of an immunity against exbows/axbows.
Grants somewhat of an immunity against high dex/evasion strats.


Here are some disadvantages
Armor penalties (but you have no body armor so it should be ok)
exp is split, therefore weakness to AMF. Also, less damage, but CoC does plenty anyways.

Biscuitback March 23 2005 1:09 PM EST

let me get some better equipment, and i think my strat would be perfect.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 23 2005 1:54 PM EST

FBC: That would work if Todd want's to leave his Str/Dex to his ToA and use the xp from his natural Str and Dex in CoC.

But a base/small CoC is going to be eaten by just about every AMF out there.

Todd would be doing less damage than just sticking to using his ELB, which will get switched off due to the DD.

Chet; That's why I changed to CoC. Less attacks to take AMF backlash from, more damage per points to foil the damn MgS and FB is dead.

;)

dnnx March 23 2005 1:57 PM EST

Rigth now I can beat 6 people on fight list that have higher PR. All clan members.
Currently I have a 9500 lvl toa, I used to have a 100k+ toj and used to be able to beat more, even you Todd.

I think its a combo of Strategy, and NW, Since I was able to still beat 2/3 of my fight list when I went from the big toj to the tiny toa.

I still think of char as a single tank with a meat shield up front, but it has move away from that somewaht

QBsutekh137 March 23 2005 2:09 PM EST

GentlemanLoser, I think MM vs CoC is a wash...CoC spreads out, so a mage shield (some teams even have two) still stops a great deal of damage. Also, GA wreaks more havoc then, as the spread fire triggers multiple GA hit-backs.

My level for the DD spell would be the same (slightly less) if I switched, so backfires would hurt even more.

I might think about it once I can put my mage in back again, but right now he has to be in front, meaning less offense if I use CoC and lose those two ranged rounds.

QBsutekh137 March 23 2005 2:13 PM EST

Oh, one final reason for MM...Gyaxx can already kill my mage in ranged with seekers. With CoC, that would mean his offense would be exactly zero. Seekers are not at all uncommon (especially in a defensive stance), so these big tanks will be able to kill my mage or have him near death (AMF finishing him off) by the time melee starts.

If I were to start over with CoC, I would make a team EM with the E being pure AMF and the mage sporting a ToE, as I have seen done already in several different teams.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] March 23 2005 2:16 PM EST

Less offense, but still less times for the MgS to reduce your damage... The deciding factor for me was thinking 'bout facing a wall type MgS minion backed up by a large AMF.

If I only had MM (as my single attack), more than likely my offense would grind to a halt on this one minion. CoC would be able to take others out, leaving me at least a chance of getting a draw/stalemate...

But, MgS's are low level ruiners. Able to wreck DD in the begining stages, but even if someone buys a MgS up to +100 (not likely according to Jon atm) I won't care about them stopping a max of 200K damage when my MM/CoC does ~1Mil at 1Mil level...

;)

I guess we'll have to see how exhorbitant the upgrade costs are when people start getting them to the 50's...

Chocolate Thunder March 23 2005 2:19 PM EST

Chet,

Why bother with two minions ;)

QBsutekh137 March 23 2005 4:54 PM EST

Favorite, balance. *smile*

Starseed^Lure March 23 2005 5:40 PM EST

To answer Todd's question: I've got 20 opponets on my list half of which are larger.

To add couple cents to the discussion: I think the best strategy to have in CB is a decent strat based both on physical and DD attacks. I use a ETM sporting a jig, bloodlust tank, and CoC. Being good at CB means, to me, that you can roll with the changes and new items and keep your strategy relatively intact.

New mage shield? Cool, I can use one AND it's a good thing my group doesn't rely on DD too much.

Right now, the thing I love most about my group is it's flexibility. Sometime it's the jigs extreme survivability that will win the fight, but yet other times it's my bloodlusted morg. And if they are foolish enough to not train in some amf.... >:)

So, in conclusion: Adaptability..... ya.

SBW March 23 2005 5:43 PM EST

Yes, Falcon =)

Fishead March 24 2005 3:10 AM EST

I have 15 characters I can beat, 13 every time, 2 about 75% of the time, all in clans. There are other a number of non clan characters that were on my list before I joined a clan that I could beat. My pr is about 122,000. I'd like to think it's my strat, but I think my CoBF has a lot to do with it, though it's only at +10.
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