Talhearn burns from the flames... (in General)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 30 2005 6:45 AM EDT

Hi all, I took the following from a +46 (4.6Mil upgrade cost) CBF

"Talhearn burns from the flames surrounding kalo (110214)"

Seeing as the max hps any character has is around 350k and the max blow is nearly 70K (which comes from archery) does anyone have any ideas how melee can compete with CBF s?

Or should all tanks just accept that they have to remove 30+ people (including most of the top players) from their fightlists permenantly?


Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 30 2005 7:03 AM EDT

You were beating me until you switched to the ToF.

QBJohnnywas April 30 2005 7:11 AM EDT

GL, have you looked at the items stats lately? Where did that +69 CoBF come from?!?!?!?!? Whoah!

QBRanger April 30 2005 7:20 AM EDT

Actually the MPB is now over 105k. Yes it is in archery, but the max melee blow is over 80k. So it is possible to deal with cobf's just have to have the correct strat to do it.

Your TOF is rather nice, but if COBF's are a concern, perhaps a TOA would help more.

AdminG Beee April 30 2005 7:29 AM EDT

"...does anyone have any ideas how melee can compete with CBF s?"

Nope, but when you figure it out drop me a CM with instructions...

"William Wallace burns from the flames surrounding Uoca (143051)"

QBRanger April 30 2005 7:33 AM EDT

G Beee,

Your fighting someone with 3 times you NW. About the same PR. Yes, i would expect you to lose.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 30 2005 7:39 AM EDT

How about CBF seeker arrows

QBRanger April 30 2005 7:48 AM EDT

CBF seeker arrows would then render an item some people payed over 8 million for in initial cost and upgrading mostly useless. There are other ways of defeating CBF's. Most include either a SMTOE now or a lot of NW in weapon.

Dont forget people spend about 3 million for a base CBF and then they spend over 3 million to upgrade it to +30 or more. Thats over 6 million in one item. Put that into your weapons and there are strats you can use with a weapon like that to defeat CBF's.

And don't say "well you have a large CBF so your not one to talk". I have unequipped my CBF and defeat the same people on my list as I normally do except just one.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 30 2005 8:22 AM EDT

Heh, yea I wasn't entirely serious about the seekers. Given what I paid for it I don't rate my cloak that highly, its specialized (only affects FB and tanks hitting the wearer in melee) and prevents the use of skills and enchantments while taking up a useful armor slot. It also does damage to the rest of your own team. If there is a problem it is perhaps in the upgrade cost which has allowed those with the money to get around the nerfs we have already seen. The damage is treated as physical so the only thing I can suggest is get another minion to take the tattoo and armor up as much as possible (or get a CBF for the tank ;/)

QBRanger April 30 2005 8:30 AM EDT

A COBF on a DD caster is a sort of waste since with so many high AMF's out there, you will kill yourself before the COBF gets much effect.

If there is a problem that I can see with the CBF, its the linear upgrade cost.

Manta April 30 2005 8:33 AM EDT

GL, accept your fate: resistance is futile.
Melee is not meant to compete against CoBF (at least, until the next nerf, which could be tomorrow).
But you should know that very well, so what was the point of your post? Remarking the obvious?

Seriously, my char does not rely on melee to deal damage, and yet when one of the chars on my fightlist equips a CoBF, I have to remove it from the list (at least, temporarily).

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] April 30 2005 9:04 AM EDT

"If there is a problem that I can see with the CBF, its the linear upgrade cost."

Ain't that the truth...

As for CBF s costing 3mil + before upgrades, that's not really the point. I paid (some might say over the odds) 4.5 Mil for a named Bth. You have to spend a high initial outlay if you want to get one of the top end items. If I put and additional 4.6 Mil into a base Bth, would I still be able to pump out 100K+ damage without any xp investment?

Atm (and I'm no where near the top players) I can earn a little over 100K a day of fighting (show by a recent debt I had). That's a point increase a day. If I really wanted to concentrate on a CBF for 3 and a half months, I could easily get a to +100. Imagine what damage I could do with that versus melee.

With no xp investment in my character. Oh, and I gain immunity to FB as well.

If CBF s are supposed to be anti melee, then why can melee fighters wear them (with little penalty) and make themselves invulnerable to the anti melee item?

Oh and If I pump a CBF high enough, it doesn't matter if my melee opponent is given billions of NW to pump into a weapon, if they can't survive the flames themselves.

So apart from wearing a CBF oneself (which jusr re inforces it's dominance of a requirement), or using a soon to be adjusted ToE I don't think there's a way to stand against them.

I just hope they get adjusted next month along with ToE s.

And if they aren't I'm re specing to Mage.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 30 2005 12:17 PM EDT

CBF is great for mages, I don't die to amf very easily (shiv gives me a problem due to his massive AMF and the fact that his ToJ takes reduced damage versus my MM while it slowly chews its way through my enchanter).

It also provides needed protection against my ToF in early melee rounds which is difficult to get for mages.

Given its negatives it should be rather good at what it does do. If you think it should be nerfed further maybe it should get something else back, some armor or something..I dunno

Arorrr April 30 2005 12:25 PM EDT

CoBF = the only item that need itself to negate the damage...

Chargerz-Back April 30 2005 12:47 PM EDT

"Dont forget people spend about 3 million for a base CBF and then they spend over 3 million to upgrade it to +30 or more. Thats over 6 million in one item. Put that into your weapons and there are strats you can use with a weapon like that to defeat CBF's."
-- Ranger

hehe, 6 mil is not much on a weapon. i spent 4 mil on my ELS + the upgrades and i am over 6 mil spent on it and i only do ~17k dmg with my character.

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] April 30 2005 1:10 PM EDT

Sure you only do 17k damage but lets not forget that you can do that multiple times per round without damaging the rest of your minions and can hit anyone with it. You can also train skills and enchantments on the minion with the ELS.

Manta April 30 2005 2:10 PM EDT

The negative effects of the tattoo are felt mainly on a single minion char, where the cloak is not such a great item (no AMF and no tattoo).

But on a multi-minion char, it is really awesome: on a mage minion it will protect the wearer from FB and deal a massive amount of damage to tanks, without giving any real negative effect. It is like a free lunch, since you do not have to spend any experience to use it (as long as you have the money, of course), and you do not receive any malus on your rewards (like tattoo do).
Any tank-based opposing team can only hope that the mage dies of AMF before the enchanters, or to be able to kill the whole enemy team in ranged.
In short, this item alone grants an easy victory against tanks: if this is not being overpowered.

Of course, it is a little less effective on a tank, because it negates useful skills (archery/BL).

Duke May 1 2005 10:11 PM EDT

ill support GentlemanLoser strongly on that CoBF are too strong just like endurance skill on ToJ and ToE

Jason Bourne May 2 2005 1:59 AM EDT

/me thinks endurance should be a train-able skill, much like evasion and archery and bloodlust. maybe make a tattoo of evasion, wouldnt even have to change the shortened name..TOEvasion
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