Strategy Check: Axbow vs. Composite bow (in General)

Majestik Moose May 9 2005 7:32 PM EDT

I'm going to build a tank... but I don't know what ranged weapon to use.. Therefore I have compared two alternatives..
Assassin's Crossbow and Composite Bow.

This is a Assassin's Crossbow in rentals:
An Assassin's Crossbow [4x14] (+18) $323,890

This is a Composite bow I have:
A Composite Bow [4x9] (+12) $122,757
Blacksmith info:
To x14: $59,989
To +18: $126,559
A Composite Bow [4x14] (+18) $309,305

My thoughts:

Both has the same base damage

Composites seems easier to upgrade, and it can be boosted by archery and belegs.. Also, it would be much easier to find,
heh.. just found one in weapon before the test !!!

Axbows on the other hand, has ammo with a little more base (10 instead of 8), and they do draw a little DX... If I put out as little as 9M, it would probably be 12.5 % per hit.

I've heard about a bow named Compound too, but the chances of me affording one of those seems rare.. but perhaps that's the right move???

What do you people think ?

deifeln May 9 2005 7:34 PM EDT

Are you joking? Don't pump any money into a composite bow. Buy a compound.

Chargerz-Back May 9 2005 7:35 PM EDT

or a ELB =P

Vagabond May 9 2005 7:41 PM EDT

Compounds are only $30-60k for a base one. There's quite a few in auctions right now.

QBRanger May 9 2005 7:42 PM EDT

Speaking from experience if you want more damage, go compound. If you want to drain dex in the hopes of getting hit less, the use the axbow.

You can see the strat i am using by viewing my character.

Chocolate Thunder May 9 2005 7:49 PM EDT

/me smells sarcasm... it burns!

Sacredpeanut May 9 2005 8:04 PM EDT

I think Majestik Moose is subtly telling us that the Axbow is perhaps under-powered.

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] May 9 2005 8:10 PM EDT

I've always thought xbows were underpowered. Then you get an uber xbow like a exbow or axbow and it's still 4x? What's up with that? I'd suggest that crossbows should be powered more, but to offset they should have a penalty to dex I suppose, compared to regular bows. Or perhaps require a higher dex or pth to get multiple shots.

Jason Bourne May 9 2005 8:27 PM EDT

...besides, if you cant get a comp bow with Money: $3,851,694
...your not looking in the right places :D

Chargerz-Back May 9 2005 8:32 PM EDT

that would almost get a ELB =P. well maybe not.

deifeln May 9 2005 8:58 PM EDT

/me is a moron

Majestik Moose May 9 2005 9:07 PM EDT

after renting that axbow, and comparing a little more, I've concluded that Composites are 5.4 % cheaper to upgrade on x, and 4.3% cheaper on +.

Maybe, a long bow would be more in the same league.. or perhaps a staff sling.. (they do atleast fire in three rounds).. well.. better check :)

Chargerz-Back May 9 2005 9:10 PM EDT

/me votes for a upgrade to ax/exbow base damage. or make a new ranged supporter item. =P

Majestik Moose May 9 2005 9:37 PM EDT

After renting a bit, buying a bit, and upgrading a bit,
(Some guy with a compound in rentals can thank me for 2 new points :), I have concluded this:

1. It costs a bit to check things :/

2. [x] Upgrade costs for some of the common weapons are as follows:

Long Bow >> Heavy Crossbow > Ax/Exbows > Composite Bow > Compound Bow >> Elven long bow.

> small difference.
>> big difference

Between some weapon, there was a constant ratio, but between Compound and elbow, I noticed a slightly increasing ratio.

maulaxe May 9 2005 11:36 PM EDT

thanks for the NW on the comp ; )

Duke May 10 2005 12:09 AM EDT

I agree AX/EXbow you have a little boost but nothing major.

madmax3 May 10 2005 8:25 AM EDT

MM's right, they're not much better than a composite considering the huge upgrade costs, & i've stopped pumping money into both my ax/ex bows for this reason. the drain is so negligable against solo or 2 minion tank/archers, and that's really the only reason i have them... sooo... why do i have them?

Manta May 10 2005 8:26 AM EDT

Axbow/exbow are useful not for their damge, but because they drain stats from tanks.
For instance, you could equip them on an enchanter or a mage (as long as the minion has enough STR to deal at least 1HP damage, and the xbow enough + to hit at least once).
Or on a tank, in preparation for the melee.
In any case, the damage dealt is only an extra bonus, not the main selling point of the weapon: even a base multiplier of 1 would be good enough.
For pure damage, a compound is way better (even without archery).

Essentially, they are an anti-tank weapon: instead (or in addition to) using EC, you use one of them. You should consider them as a substitute for an OE, not for a DD.
In this environment, where tanks are few, it is not very useful (and anyhow a CoBF would be a much better way to spend your money).
However, if tanks were more common, the a/exbow would be more powerful.

Majestik Moose May 10 2005 8:31 AM EDT

You are free to comment on my axbow/exbow efficiency thread too, Manta :)

(And, I think that it was said somewhere that you need to do at least moderate damage, for the effect to work.. 1 point seems a little small)

Chocolate Thunder May 10 2005 8:38 AM EDT

Manta, Devils' Advocates, Others:

The axbow/exbow has taken a huge hit from CB1.

This is a CB1 Exbow: A Bow of Weakness [x20] (+100) worth $24,599,497 owned by manta (Moirae)

To Get an equivalent Exbow in CB2: it'd be [4x80](+100), this would cost around $302,877,789 ($288 million on the damage alone, a compound this size would be around $40 million).

I'd call that a VERY sizable nerf from CB1 to CB2... on an item that may have been underpowered in the first place.

madmax3 May 10 2005 8:39 AM EDT

i think the point is more that they don't drain enough for the costs to be viable. (they need to be super expensively pumped for any noticable drains)

(mm beat me to it :P)

e.g. i can unequip them both (substantially sized mind you) & it makes no difference to the results on my fav's list. oddly ernough i'm winning easier.. & saving bolts in the process.

Chocolate Thunder May 10 2005 9:03 AM EDT

Upon Further review...

Exbows were only slightly more expensive to up in CB1 than compounds... making them a decent choice.

CB1 Exbow: Bow of the Galadhrim [x21] (+100) worth $32,794,162 owned by {Carp} King of Pervs (Dr. Carp)

CB1Compound: A Long Shot [x21] (+100) worth $28,201,132 owned by ZenMasterbartjan (Flanders)

Now, a $28 million dollar Compound is around the same size as a $100 million dollar Exbow...

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] May 10 2005 9:06 AM EDT

I also equip and use both ax- and ex-bows. I have been disappointed with the results. Even without archery trained Don Kixothe would do more damage with a Compund--which is what I'm considering. I'm not to thrilled with the special crossbows. If the cost to upgrade were more in line, or their damage output improved, it would definitely help.

Manta May 10 2005 9:10 AM EDT

I admit that both items got a big nerf from CB1.
But the problem is not that the damage they deal is too little, but that they drain 4 times less than in CB1. As a consequence, I would say that they are 4 times less powerful (this, without taking into account that there are far fewer tanks here, and possible differences in the upgrading costs in CB1 and CB2).

For instance, increasing the base multiplier to 5X would not solve the problem: what needs to be increased is the amount of stats they drain.

A separate problem is that for range, the only serious option is using a compound (or an elbow, if you are rich): forging a xbow is a waste of money in comparison.
This, in my opinion, is a pity, since we have less choice. If xbows (and slings) were more powerful, one could choose between a bow plus archery or a xbow (or a sling).
Now the choice is between compound without archery, and compound with archery.

It would be interesting to introduce a rare xbow, that has the same base multiplier and upgrading cost of an elbow. It would be more powerful than the elbow without archery, but much less powerful than an elbow with archery.

Barron [CB2BANK Investors Club] May 10 2005 9:15 AM EDT

We already have 2 rare. but almost ineffective, xbows. I would suggest fixing those before asking for a new item. And the lowly heavy xbow is plagued with the same problem. It just needs fixing: make it cheaper to upgrade and fix it's damage. Crossbows generally do more damage than ordinary bows.

Sacredpeanut May 10 2005 10:36 AM EDT

The Axbow has always seemed like a somewhat useless weapon to me, at least compared to the Exbow.

I mean it is least effective against the teams you most need it against.

If your up against a minion with much higher DEX than yours, the Axbow may hit only once or even no times total in ranged combat which isn't going to give much of a DEX reduction at all, whereas if your up against a minion with lower DEX than yours you may get 3 or 4 hits in ranged, giving quite a nice DEX reduction but it's not really needed because you already have a nice DEX advantage anyway.

Personally I'd love to see the + cost on the Axbow lowered significantly to allow more hits in ranged combat against the teams where the DEX reduction is needed the most.

QBRanger May 10 2005 10:54 AM EDT


You hit the nail right on the head. I tried an enforcers xbow but never hit other TOA tanks or TOJ with it. I tried upping the + so I would hit once, but the cost got too high over +35 for it to be cost effective. So I dropped the enbow and went compound. Now I dont drain strength but do a lot more damage for less NW.

Majestik Moose May 10 2005 12:30 PM EDT

About Compounds, Axbows, Elbows:

Nr in game 458
Over NW: $-456

Nr in game: 45
Over NW: $395,347

Nr in game: 38
Over NW: $4,305,154

Are rarity and their performances on the battlefield correctly sized as is?
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001KYL">Strategy Check: Axbow vs. Composite bow</a>