How do you like armor changes so far? (in General)

Arorrr May 10 2005 5:37 PM EDT

I say it makes CB2 better, eventhough my main mage char got hit in the most part.

The good thing comes out of this change: NW helps both Mage and Tank since it ties to the + on the items. No more complains from the poor people who sold their $ for USD and whine why NW not = PR.

The only thing left to nerf is CBF, eventhough I have a +40 one.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 10 2005 6:16 PM EDT

There is now no rare Shield.

QBJohnnywas May 10 2005 6:17 PM EDT

The BoM is still a rare shield - it's just a rare 'power' shield...

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 10 2005 6:18 PM EDT

Different category, like a ToE is not a rare body armour. :P

QBJohnnywas May 10 2005 6:18 PM EDT

And there's still the Mithril Shield. Tired some, GL?

bartjan May 10 2005 6:19 PM EDT

MS not rare?

Warchild May 10 2005 6:21 PM EDT

uummm Mithril Shield??????

and as far as the changes go so far they are very interesting I have been helped and hurt as I think most people were.

On a side note I will never believe the rumor mill again...Jonathan is becoming a daddy again so it will probably be a slow change month...riiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Congrats again Jonathan :-)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 10 2005 6:23 PM EDT

Eh? MS is rare... LOL!

Guess it is time for bed...

Wait a minute, it's only 11:23.


QBJohnnywas May 10 2005 6:24 PM EDT


Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] May 10 2005 6:35 PM EDT

"The good thing comes out of this change: NW helps both Mage and Tank since it ties to the + on the items. No more complains from the poor people who sold their $ for USD and whine why NW not = PR."

Eh, only if you can wear a CoI and then the upgrade cost is pretty steep. The only thing thats going to help mages from the changes so far is a possible shift towards EC from AMF.

Arorrr May 10 2005 6:59 PM EDT

You can also upgrade Corn for your E. Thought Corn upgrade is a pain after +5 any way.

Arorrr May 10 2005 7:11 PM EDT

Anyone notice that the latest change make a total of 5 T variants?

The ToA tank that cannot benefit from + Dex/Str from items
The +Dex/Str tank that benefit from items: hoe,ec,eg,eb,tulkas
The heavy tanks with AC gears, benefit with HoD+1
The UC tanks with UC gears

Ofcourse, I did not mention the archery type since you can train archery and switch the gloves to beleg, except for UC tanks.

One common thing: all types of tank benefit from the latest round. If Jon nerf CBF, mageblender becomes tankblenders.

*** shudder of the thought of ToA +50 *** this is too good to be true.

Mem May 10 2005 7:13 PM EDT

I don't. I have to drop the SMTOE I've been taking advantage of for the past couple of months. They just aren't really viable anymore. And by viable I mean that you can't fight above your pr level with them. ;) Guess I've put off hiring that second minion long enough.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] May 10 2005 7:30 PM EDT

My biggest problem with the changes so far is what he did his own Mage Shield. A +25 MGs is now pretty much worthless, and the last base one I saw was selling for under 250K in auctions, so it doesn't have very far to fall. Used to be you could say, yah 40% is way to little, but you still get +25 to your AC, so it still works. Now, an expensive manhole cover.

At +25 you get with the 10% boost the ability to block 55K of damage. However you do not get to block 55K damage unless the attack in one single blow does 137,500 points of DD damage. So the only time it is effective is when you face a DD spell first of all, then only when its really big, or you are always simply blocking 40% of the damage.

My previously tank equipped BoM at +12 blocks 2% of damage from DD, adds Strength of 12%, and blocks 6% of physical damage. The previous on a farm MS +22 blocks 4% of DD and 8% of physical. You say oh but thats a big difference! LOL take a 100K blow, +25 MGS blocks 40K the +12 BoM blocks 2K. A difference of 38K damage blocked. The cost to upgrade the MS to +25 is obscene as it is, the cost to add some to BoM is comparitively minimal. So basically I predict the previous lone Power Shield entry, the Mage Shield, will sell for less than 100K base and 1/4NW tops on anything else.

Why oh why Jon, I had hopes for your first new supporter item, I defended it against many opponents on the grounds it still added AC. Now, well there is no defence.

To all Wall minions out there, try a BoM or MS in place of your MGs, see if you don't actually win more fights after it than before, or at least you won't lose any fights because you removed the MGs.

PoisoN May 10 2005 8:02 PM EDT

Still miss a redesign of low end items. A useful TSA is removed but Robe, Greaves, Heaume...

Mage equipment is boring. Need MCM & DB, a CH for each enchanter, a CoI for each mage. Fill up with basic stuff - done.

QBsutekh137 May 10 2005 8:05 PM EDT

Sefton and I are in violent agreement about the MgS. It just went from being a little-better-than-I-had-hoped to being pretty much junk.

Either make all "power" items (where + grants an augmentation) bereft of AC, or let them all have AC (except CBF, which should be removed from the game entirely in its current linear-upgrade state).

I think I can get on board with all of these new "power" items, but can we get some consistency here?

Duke May 10 2005 8:13 PM EDT

I dont like the ToA change everyone can see that ToA is too strong.I was allready very strong that now i just overpower you have to have a a much larger PR to beat me.So i really suggest that we get back to a proper balance before thing goes as last time.Also that make that no tank will ever be able to hit a ToA tank.

On the Ec Eb Eg fine with me in any case no tank will have the cash to boost weapon and armor in the same time.

Corn/Coi coi boost is cool so mage will have a way to spend there money like tank.Also someone mention CoI have a high cost to upgrade i would like to make you remember that each + = 1% extra dmg.
The actual change to Eg Corn just kill all the Sm toe out there.Once again i think killing a whole strat is not a good idea.

HoD/Sc change is only to compete with Ec/Eb......

beleg have took a major hit it allready have almost no use they should have a base of 0.8 + (ench +).

Sacredpeanut May 10 2005 9:20 PM EDT

It looks like Jon is paving the way for introducing NW to PR in the very near future now that every item requires a NW investment to become useful.

Chargerz-Back May 10 2005 9:25 PM EDT

fine with me since he did the same with mage gear.

LumpBot May 10 2005 9:28 PM EDT

I absolutely hate the new change. Only the ToA helps me. I had all AC gear and Belegs...well, belegs suck horribly now. I have to put around 4.5 million into them just to bring them up to "ordinary". AC armor is junk because all these new EBs and Tulkas will be giving huge bonuses for about 1/4 of the price for my belegs. Cost to bring tulkas to +13 (13% str) around 400K. Cost to bring belegs to +14 (Less than before) is at about 4.2 million!!

Arorrr May 10 2005 10:41 PM EDT

Yah, I wonder why some T item, Jon didn't curve them up appropriately. Also, the latest change make ToA a must for any T team. Look at this way:

ToA +50% to make extra attack = +50 to both your Range and Melee weapon. That's very powerful incentive. At high end, to make your +100 to +150 is extremely expensive, or you can just tackle a ToA and having the same effect.

QBsutekh137 May 10 2005 11:03 PM EDT

Earlier in chat (quite a bit earlier), I remarked that I hardly know what to tell a newbie any more...what "mentorish" things to say when they peep into carnage and say, "whut shoold i dew with mah team you crazee muthahs?"

I have no idea. That's a good thing. The detailed choices available are good for freshness and originality. But without consistency, the newness isn't fresh, it's chaos. Let's point out current inconsistencies:

- CBF has linear upgrade scale and is just insanely powerful right now.
- For armor items where the plus adds to a stat or skill, sometimes the + counts as AC, sometimes not.
- Related to the previous point, MgSs are now the most worthless supporter item ever created. (I certainly won't be fooled into spending $6 again).
- The combination of skill, armor, and stat enhancements now offered is mind-boggling. That's not to mention the fact that many items are mutually exclusive. No tattoos with cloaks and body armor. No tattoos with power shields. Armor items negating skills. How can a new player be directed on what to buy? If everything just falls into "suites" of items, then what is the point?
- Camper heaven? All these new items...I can only assume "rares" are popping like corn (sorry, "CHs", whatever the hell those are)

Anyway. I am out of here....

Mags May 10 2005 11:18 PM EDT

I think the changes are brilliant. They address lots of the itemization issues and make higher enchants on many types of equipment far, far more desirable, which will in turn make CB2$ much more important. Additionally, as Arorrr noted and I've been mentioning, it removes the artificial distinction that mages are lower NW by nature than tanks.

I'm very happy with them for the sake of CB2. :) Though I've got a lot of money blown on a mage shield I may never use at this point -- we'll see.

Arorrr May 10 2005 11:19 PM EDT

Bitterness from Chet.. 8*(

BTW, CH = corn

QBsutekh137 May 10 2005 11:29 PM EDT

Of course I'm bitter, Arorrr... I'm a Communist, remember?

And I know what CH means. Try reading my pun again. *smile*

QBRanger May 10 2005 11:33 PM EDT

Lets review shall we:

Mage items you need to get and upgrade: Corn, COI, and ?MCM and DB?
Tank items you need to get and upgrade: A whole lot more.

Please don't compare a tank needing NW to a mage now needing NW.

Pretty please don't.

QBsutekh137 May 10 2005 11:37 PM EDT

Oh, and Mags, I think you meant... "will make USD much more important..." Last I checked, DAWG didn't use CB2$ (directly) to have the two largest CBFs in the game...

I admire your optimism, I really do.

Mags May 10 2005 11:53 PM EDT

The amount of NW you need to pump into those mage items vis a vis tank items to remain viable may be similar. We have no idea at this point. It'll play out.

The USD$ problem is another big issue that I want to see solved another way. That doesn't change the fact that the itemization is way cool, but yes, the USD$/camping/wealth distribution problem gets significantly more severe with these changes.

Watch out for ToA archers. They will be the new SMToE's(with higher NW required). Just vicious.

I'd still call this a vast net positive for CB2, but there are other problems that can dampen the great aspects of the new itemization, you're right.

AdminJonathan May 11 2005 12:02 AM EDT

Wow, Chet. Is it really that hard to remember that MgS don't give AC, along with CBF/DB? One more item on the list?

I think you're projecting, Chet. Go on, let it all out. :)

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] May 11 2005 12:12 AM EDT

I think the writing is clearly on the wall for a NW to PR roll in soon, as it was pointed out earlier. Hopefully a few things would be cleared up before then or I am dumping the 3mil I got from my HoI's into my CoBF. Obviously with a linear upgrade in a world will each NW jump will decrease your PR to score gap (that is your PR compared to their score), better off to dump 20mil there than in an elbow. So the CoBF has to be next. Hopefully, BG's will be rescaled when the CoBF is so upgrading them isnt worthless, I wouldn't start selling them yet. BTW, and while your at it, rescale the MGs for me, give me some of the cash back I wasted there, a 1mil + frisbee. That is unless your kind enough to rethink taking away the AC from it.

Oh and just as a thought, IF your items NW adds to your PR, AND you refuse to drop a single item of real value, how do you decrease your PR.....? I think I know :)

QBsutekh137 May 11 2005 12:17 AM EDT

One more item to the list. Exactly.

I have already stated how much I hate needing Post-It (TM) notes around my monitor, and judging by subsequent changes that were made, I thought we were in accord. I guess not. *grin* I guess I really am just a legend in my own mind.

If you want to make the MgS AC less effective, but keep the mage-stopping the same, then raise the BS curve and up the damage reduction curve for the magic portion. It doesn't have to be all or nothing on the AC front. And hey, if you don't believe me, Sefton said the same thing. Surely, that counts for something? *smile*

Alternately, shut off the AC on the other items where + does more than AC. Make people choose. Why have an inconsistency where none is required? It makes it hard to learn and hard to remember (sans Post-It (TM) notes, of course). I am assuming new player retention is more important than ever now that CB1 has closed it's rusty gates?

When there's no reason for it, a one-item list is a list too long, much less three. My pen just ran out of ink. You can even change the DB and CBF curves to anything you wish. You are God here.

If the rest of the month bears out a reason why consistency cannot be maintained, I will be the first (and apparently only, since I am the lone voice moaning about this) to profusely offer my apologies.

QBsutekh137 May 11 2005 12:20 AM EDT

And Jonathan, why did you steal GentlemanLoser's user picture?

For goodness sake, is that his BABY! Give it back! In the name of all that is holy, give that gorgeous little cherub BACK!!!!!

/me sobs.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] May 11 2005 2:15 AM EDT


Why do people think Single mages are dead and buried? So you've lost what +10% to your DD spell if you're lucky?

Big deal.

Tanks get a 50% chance of another attack on top of thier pth?

Big deal.

Without the NW in thier weapon, Tanks are still tickling ToE Mages not matter how much thier strength get's boosted.

While the Mage blasts away for the same, if not more, damage per round that the tank could potentially do if all their poosible hits land.

It's closer now, but I can't see why Single ToE Mages are dead in the water?

[Banned]Monty May 11 2005 3:00 AM EDT

lol Jon doesn't* not MgS don't =P. if you said MgS's don't then that is right but MgS don't is wrong *snicker*

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