To all Item meta stats mailers. (in General)

Phaete May 11 2005 6:58 AM EDT

I get sick and tired of the so called 'purchase offers' of random people who think they can convince me to sell my armor/weapon/tatoo.

Most don't even have the decency to create somewhat of a formal request, but are using language worse then the Viagra ads i get by normal mail.

I see these unwanted, unasked and bothersome CM's as an open invitation to start a flame back, so you all are hereby forewarned.

It generally cracks me up when people then start to take things personally, like the below:

From: Will Sent: May 10 2005 6:30 PM EDT Delivered: 1:36 AM EDT
Id like to buy your corn from you, i have items to trade with and $$. Cheack my "omg nerf trades" thread :) let me know if you are interested...

My answer:

To: Will Sent: 1:39 AM EDT Delivered: 3:17 AM EDT
I suggest buying a dictionary first and learning to spell correctly. Check eBay for some nice deals on that. Let me know if you are literate :P

His answer again (this really cracks me up, he even forgot he spammed me :))

From: Will Sent: 6:33 AM EDT Delivered: 6:48 AM EDT
I don't know who you are but if you have to bring in your real-life problems to an online game then you must be an absolute loser. Ordinarily I'm friendly to people and I give them the benefit of the doubt, I have heard of your 'reputation' and your reply just proved that. I'm sorry that you are so much of a sad little individual that you have to take it out on complete strangers.

Talking about assumption and misinterpretation, lol you really crack me up.


IndependenZ May 11 2005 7:03 AM EDT

Phaete, please don't display your 'reputation' like this.
If I want to see filth, I'd turn on my television.

Just kidding. Unwanted chatmails can be annoying, I have to agree.
Maybe a CB2-junkmail folder could do the trick? ;p

QBJohnnywas May 11 2005 7:10 AM EDT

I find it funniest when you're renting a rare and suddenly there they come. 'Want to sell that ELB. Do you take USD?' The time it took them to do that they could have checked if it was rented and saved themselves the bother. Does anybody actually sell to people doing that?

AdminShade May 11 2005 7:10 AM EDT

i find those 'offers' annoying also...

LumpBot May 11 2005 7:44 AM EDT

Well no wonder you get crap like that. Seriously is it that hard just to say, "No thanks, I'm not interested in selling." It's called being polite.

This is a game of selling and trading so what's the big deal when someone offers to buy something? If you want to throw yourself that far from the community where you get upset about chatmails, then maybe keep this to yourself.

Will [Retired] May 11 2005 8:11 AM EDT

Oh dear Phaete, just because I spelt check wrong you have to go and be insulting. I'm glad you shared this with the community. Personally I wouldn't have brought it out because of decency, but if thats what you want to do...

[Banned]Monty May 11 2005 8:27 AM EDT

My reply


Todd May 11 2005 8:37 AM EDT


"I'm so cool and wanted in the CB community that I get unsolicited chatmails asking me to sell my stuff. I'm normally not this popular in real life, so I don't know how to handle it. I know... If I make a post mocking those who send me messages, people will know that I am:
1. Cool enough to get them
2. Too cool to respond to them in private, or ignore them. "

How did I do on the assumptions? ;)


[Banned]Monty May 11 2005 8:41 AM EDT


BrandonLP May 11 2005 8:43 AM EDT


Yeah, I absolutely hate it when people want to give me money. It's terrible that they offer more than the market value most of the time because they really want the item. I hate it. It stinks. Everyone sure has you figured out wrong, Phaete. You were such a kind gentleman when dealing with me in the past.


Xiaz on Hiatus May 11 2005 9:15 AM EDT

Well, considering the Corn is on Phaete's primary team. It'd be pretty useless to ask him to sell the item/s that build up that team...

If it was an item on a farm, it'd be reasonable...

I mean, come on, it's like asking a 4 minion CoBF team to sell it's CoBF, rofl. An Archer Team to sell it's Elbow, maybe even like asking Tood to sell Hellfire (the xbow) back in the day (before it got down graded, haha)...

Phaete, a loser? Nervahr!!
<grin> :P

Bolfen May 11 2005 10:21 AM EDT

Lots of people here play from different countries and in different states of sobriety. Being rude like that just makes you look bad.

As for meta-stat mailers, it's part of the game. Let's face it--the demand for rares is high--and if you want to get ahead of the other buyers, you get in your offer as soon as possible and as wide as possible. It's like the real-estate market in a hot location--the best properties never even make it to a listing because it's selling on word of mouth. I know I've CM'd people when after they camp a rare because 50% of the time, it would never make it to auction or FS/WTB.

Look at it this way, you're complaining that people are offering you money without you even asking for it.

Relic May 11 2005 10:23 AM EDT

A few points....

1. Everyone has a price.

2. There is no reason to be rude to people about spelling issues.

3. Spamming is annoying.

4. This is a game, but please, let's all try to respect others.

5. Can't we all just get along?

Fuhgawz May 11 2005 10:31 AM EDT

"I find those 'offers' annoying also... "

--Shade, 7:10 AM EDT

Now who was cming me the other day?? :P

Nixon Jibfest May 11 2005 10:32 AM EDT

Added to the DoNoChatMail list: Phaete.

This thread cracks me up. I'm not sure what would make Phaete post something like that about someone as nice as Will, a guy who does more with and for the CB community than phaete. I agree with Spaceman--Simply replying "No Thank You" seems to be an easier and more polite way to address the issue. I also agree with Todd's assessment but probably would never have the balls to write it myself.

As someone who does about one or two transactions every month /*cough*/, i can tell you that more deals get done via CM than on FS/WTB and auctions. I can't say this for certain, but I'm guessing that I may receive more "unsolicited" CMs from members asking to buy/sell/trade rares than anyone else on CB. I can't imagine a circumstance where I would ever post something like what's on this thread, especially if it made me look like the bigger dumkopf.

Phaete, don't pity me too much or feel sorry that I have to live with myself. heh...

/please excuse any grammatical errors in this post.

mchaos May 11 2005 10:38 AM EDT

it's Dummkopf Jibfest, if you're going to make such atrotious speeling errors I'm just going to have to hunt you down and beat you bewustloss.

Nixon Jibfest May 11 2005 10:47 AM EDT

lol... couldn't you just buy me an English/German dictionary from ebay? sheesh.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] May 11 2005 10:53 AM EDT

I agree that some people have no etiquette, I also had a problem with Mr Will :)
In his thread he has stuff with no minimums which he no longer wants so I started a CoI off at 200k which after a nerf and considering that is all I had I thought pretty fair,
I then get a CM
From: Will Sent: May 10 2005 6:25 PM EDT Delivered: 3:36 AM EDT
please dont take the piss with the bids mate, i put minimums on for a reason...
Which is really funny because there were no minimums and I was being pretty serious in my bid to be perfectly honest.

LumpBot May 11 2005 10:58 AM EDT

Zoglog, it's pretty funny that you say "I was being pretty serious in my bid to be perfectly honest." because 200K for ANY mage rare is a joke. Even after the nerf I doubt you'll find any mage thing for under 1 milion.

Phaete May 11 2005 11:05 AM EDT

Hmm, perhaps i do put a bit too much emotion into things ;)

I was raised that talking to strangers in a tone, as if they are your best friend, is offensive.
So i take it personal and reply (just like a lot of people in this thread) with some flame content.

Consider this real life example:

Shall i come to your door as a stranger, and offer you some cash for your TV, couch and wife, how does that make you feel (and what if the neighbours are watching?)

Would you be offended or honoured that this stranger picks you?

To conclude

We have Fighters, Campers and some other jobs running around here on CB, please don't confuse them :)

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] May 11 2005 11:08 AM EDT

I would rather not be insulted in such a way, I don't take anything personally but I feel rather dejected that the recent cb community seem to have dropped hugely in IQ and no longer have any manners.
In my experience if you don't try, you don't get.
I got a 6mill NW BTh in cb1 for 6mill when base were at 10mill because I offered that.
I was getting EC's for 90k when they were at 500k because I offered.
It is all about bargaining, if you don't try for cheap then you don't get cheap.
I didn't see a minimum bid when I went to post and yes maybe I should have looked carefully but they should be in the original post, or is this a stupid new trend of waiting for bids before realising you were too stupid to post them?
I don't see the point of going straight in and offering 3mill for a CoI, call me naive but I prefer to spend as little as possible for an item, is that really wrong of me?
If it is wrong of someone who has been here 2 years and experienced it all then I might just leave you all to your insults.

Fuhgawz May 11 2005 11:09 AM EDT

So how much will you give me for my wife? All baggage that she carries your responsible for now too! :)

LumpBot May 11 2005 11:09 AM EDT

Phaete you forgot one little thing in your last post, This isn't real life!! It's a game shockingly. And in this game people....sell stuff. Think of it as living at your work. At work do people come in looking to buy stuff? If they don't, I think you need a better job.

Bolfen May 11 2005 11:17 AM EDT

If someone came by and offered me 200k for my sofa, I'd be pretty happy.

But your analogy is terribly irrelevant. CB is a game which is often about accumulating money and items. So, no it would not be shocking that you would get unsolicited offers.

In any case, your views are very clear and hopefully you will not ever get any CM offers again.

Zoglog[T] [big bucks] May 11 2005 11:21 AM EDT

I expect to offer money to people actually selling items, I am polite enough to not harass someone who isn't selling.
If someone has an item on a character and haven't advertised it FS would you not think they are using it and want to keep it?
I'm sorry but you buy from sellers not people who are not interested.

HellBlender May 11 2005 11:23 AM EDT

Dude, lighten up, it's only a game. Besides, it's not hard to just click on home again to make the CM disappear.

You also got to remember that there are younger people that play this game and don't realize that you would never part with your corn until they ask. I don't know Will and this may not be the case, but it still happens. Either ignore them or just say it's not for sale at this time.

Believe me, I've gotten my fair share of cm offers and, surprisingly, most were decent offers. I've even done business this way because it's so much faster.

Phaete May 11 2005 11:25 AM EDT

@ BrandonPW: 2 camels, but you have to bring her here :)

@ Spaceman, read the last sentence again please. I'm a fighter, not a merchant :) So my office where people 'come to buy' is a bloody battlefield filled with cut off corpses and charred remains :P

Fuhgawz May 11 2005 11:26 AM EDT

wahoo now what can i trade my 2 camels for, but please do not cm as it will annoy me

Nixon Jibfest May 11 2005 11:28 AM EDT

Is it safe to say that we all should just leave the Elven Blood clan alone and just end this discussion?

LumpBot May 11 2005 11:30 AM EDT

Uh oh, I must have missed the chatmail when I started that said we could only be a fighter or a forger or a seller/camper...I can see how ridiculous it would be involved with the economy as well as fight.
Here copy this and paste it whenever someone chat mails you, "Sorry, I'm not interested in selling items"

Phaete May 11 2005 12:00 PM EDT

Thank you all for listening and the constructive feedback :P

Now that i got this off my chest i will probably ignore those pesky CM's for a while again.

Saying of the ay:

"The IQ of a mob can be determined by taking the IQ of the dumbest member,
and dividing by the number of members"

Phaete May 11 2005 12:01 PM EDT

*Correction* roflol :P

Saying of the day:

"The IQ of a mob can be determined by taking the IQ of the dumbest member,
and dividing by the number of members"

Fishead May 11 2005 12:15 PM EDT

Phate, I came across someone like you the first week i was playing CB1. I asked a question and got some know it all jerk telling me I was too dumb to read FAQ's (the answer wasn't there). My point is that I nearly quit because I didn't want to deal with people like that, it takes less effort to give a short polite response to someone than it does to flame them. Fortunately, not all people feel the need to be as rude as you find necessary. I met quite a few helpful and friendly people playing this game and so I stuck around. This is a text based game and words are all we have so choose them wisely.

bartjan May 11 2005 12:18 PM EDT

I also hate those Unsolicited Commercial Chatmails. They threat me like I have no idea there is such a thing as Auctions, where I can put my items for sale, if I happen to have a need to get rid of the item.

Will, why do you chatmail users begging for a corn, when you do not even have set a single auction alert?

Nixon Jibfest May 11 2005 12:28 PM EDT

do auctions let you trade for items?

Fishead May 11 2005 12:31 PM EDT

The CM's can be annoying, but there's no need to be rude with your responses. I've had a few friendly conversations with people CMing me to buy stuff I wasn't selling.

AdminJonathan May 11 2005 1:31 PM EDT

Nixon, my friend

auctions let you trade cash for items, and items for cash

I'll leave it to someone else to point out how this lets you trade items for items

QBRanger May 11 2005 1:34 PM EDT

Me thinks Nixon was being a bit sarcastic.

Special J May 11 2005 2:44 PM EDT

I hate when people compare a game to life and try to come up with some silly comparison.

Coming to my house and offering money for my wife and my tv?
How in the hell does that come close to offering fake money for fake items?

It doesn't, calm down and climb down off the horse.

[EG] Almuric May 11 2005 2:54 PM EDT

Well, I'm with Phaete. How is this any different than spam in your email inbox?

I don't need CMs to figure out that I want to sell something. Are there a lot of people out there who want to sell something but can't figure out how? Is that the problem the CMers are trying to solve? Maybe someone should put together a tutorial on how to sell stuff on here.

I guess that makes me a jerk or something. I can live with that.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] May 11 2005 3:00 PM EDT

If there were a place in chat that was viable (keyword there) for buying and selling I believe there would be less chatmail spams :)

Todd May 11 2005 3:04 PM EDT

You can reason all you want. The fact remains that many people have been able to put together deals initiated by a chatmail. I've done it several times myself. Yes, people can put them in auctions. Yes, anyone with anything worth buying knows about auctions. No, these people don't need lessons on how to post an auction.

But many still seem to respond to chatmail offers.

Theory vs Reality.

CBMan11 May 11 2005 3:16 PM EDT

I'd also like to point out that if a stranger came to your house and nicely offered you money for things, you better not reply with a rude/sly remark cuz he'll probably stab you.
Also, I remember a time when i was looking for a ToI and i asked Phaete if you were willing to sell yours and you were very rude.
Also, to reply to whoever said it was impossible to get an item this way, that is wrong, that is how i got my ToI (not from Phaete of course).
So in conclusion, i believe a nice "no thanks i am not willing to sell this item at this time" would be very appropriate.

[EG] Almuric May 11 2005 3:17 PM EDT

But many still seem to respond to chatmail offers. Many people buy from spammers, too. Does that make spam legitimate?

No, I'm not trying to equate the CMers with spammers, but there is a politeness issue. And spam started with just 1 or 2 occasional emails, also.

Bolfen May 11 2005 3:33 PM EDT

Let's draw a line here between CMers and spammers.

Spammers send indiscriminate email to millions of people with very little relevance (ie Viagra pills to a million women and kids).

Here in CB everything is bought or sold. And there are very, very limited numbers of items that are highly in demand. These CMs may be unsolicited, but they are highly targeted--ie, to a CB player who owns the desired rare. Yes, there are auctions and forums, but markets tend to try to find every crevice in the drive for efficiency and CMs are one way that happens.

Some folks say "I don't need someone to tell me when I want to sell." Really? If someone offered you 2 million for that elven cloak, you wouldn't sell quickly? Since a big part of this game is figuring out market prices, getting CMs is an advantage. How much of a nuisance is it to see someone offer you CB$? I think some folks are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

Phaete May 11 2005 3:42 PM EDT

I have nothing against a polite CM with price indication, and a apology for wasting my time if inappropriate.

But that would be a refreshment from the badly formulated, riddled with spelling mistakes, invites to cheap haggling sessions i get :P

Then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Todd May 11 2005 3:50 PM EDT

Well, I must apologize to you Phaete. I thought you were sick and tired of the so called "purchase offers" of random people who think they can convince you to sell your armor/weapon/tatoo.

You're complaint is specifically against those who poorly format the request. I'll have to agree with you then. All chat mails should be legible and have some measure of intelligence within.

Sorry about that, I completely misunderstood. My bad.

AdminJonathan May 11 2005 3:57 PM EDT

CMing the 20 people who have an AC IS spamming.

It doesn't matter that it's not 10 million people; it's spam.

Sometimes a CM-spam deal does go through. Sometimes email spam gets customers, too. That doesn't make either one of them OK.

Not really sure what the solution is for CB. I suppose I could rate-limit CMs.

LumpBot May 11 2005 3:59 PM EDT

rate limiting CM would really kill certain dealers and loaners I'd think =\

CooperTX May 11 2005 4:06 PM EDT

The solution is to 'throw it away,' just like junk circulars and so forth. If the 'spammer' is persistent, then report them. Consider it at that point to be harassment. Any restriction of chatmail would punish everyone for what a few have been doing.

mchaos May 11 2005 4:15 PM EDT

I agree with Cooper, I have never CMed anyone an unsolicited offer, have received a few, and even sold one item to someone. Certainly repeated offers to all owners of an item is spamming, but especially as a camper, you receive a fair number of "nice catch, would you take x for it" CMs, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

As an aside, everyone reading/participating in this thread (myself in cluded) has spent more time reading and debating this issue than it would take to read or ignore years of CM spam.

Arorrr May 11 2005 4:43 PM EDT

Let's fix this problem, NOW:
1. Make an option so we can ignore unwanted CMs, known as cpams (CM spam)
2. Make an option so we can summit known cpamers to a CPAM database.
3. Make an option so we can automatically ignore cpamers from CPAM database.
4. Ask your local legistrators to pass the CPAM laws that requires:
a. Require all CMs with unsubscribe link.
b. Fine 15,000 CB2 for every unwanted cpams that does not have unsubscribe link.
c. Send all fine money to BB&T.

Thank you all.

BrandonLP May 11 2005 6:33 PM EDT

Well, since Phaete seems to think this is comparable to real life, I feel that once he rids the word of spam mail (both electronically and snail mail), he has no right to set a limit on CB CMs. Seriously, if you guys can't take something as infinitesimally meaningless as five extra lines of length on your Home page, are you sure you're quite prepared for life?

AdminJonathan May 11 2005 6:42 PM EDT

"Spam isn't a problem since you can just ignore it if you don't like it."

You disgust me.

BrandonLP May 11 2005 6:47 PM EDT

I don't consider it spam. Ads disgust me, yet you have them. Why? Because you could use the extra income. Why do people send out unsolicited chatmails? Because they could use the item.

I never said spam was simply ignorable. I'm saying that CM asking to buy something from someone isn't even close to real life spam or anything that should be made into a thread like this.

Xiaz on Hiatus May 11 2005 10:53 PM EDT

The only people who buy things from spam, either via email or snail mail, are lacking a few digits in the IQ.

The constant sight of the item eventually ticks something over so they pull the cash out and spend it on something they most likely would never use.

So in summary, spam is bad. /mailing someone to see if they will sell an item which is an integral part of their main team is also bad.

moser May 11 2005 11:02 PM EDT

Would CMing someone about an item they own but do not have equipped be considered spamming?

QBsutekh137 May 11 2005 11:18 PM EDT

Visceral Jonathan! I love it!

I think the disconnect here is that some people just admit it can't be fought. I myself have to change my "junk" e-mail address about twice a year once it reaches 20-30 pieces of garbage a day.

Seriously, what can be done? Want to read something frustrating? Read some stories about internet DoS attack extortion. A nameless adversary asking for $50,000 or they will kill your site and run you out of business. Talk about frustrating. It's true: some people need to be stabbed in the throat and thrown in jail. Not necessarily in that order.

Yes, it is disgusting. But I find a lot of things disgusting...the Missouri legislature, abortion-doctor killers, and spam (just to name a few). But I do realize they are parts of life and always will be. My outrage and disgust will never stop these phenomenon.

I do think we should all be disgusted with spam. I don't, however, think it helps to be disgusted with someone who has come to accept these transgressions.

AdminJonathan May 11 2005 11:40 PM EDT

There's a fine line between accepting and condoning.

LumpBot May 11 2005 11:52 PM EDT

I don't use chat at all. I have done everything through CB using chat mail except for a few things. I have sold and have busted on Chat mailing random people. I have made a ton of friends including Barron, Will, Nixon, Moomba, Fishead, and Sefton just by saying "Hey, nice char." I believe attempting to "stop spam" is only going to isolate many people like myself who don't use regular chat. I know I am not the only one.

House May 12 2005 12:21 AM EDT

I like my spam thin sliced and fried with a side of mac and cheese (velveeta style--real thick )

chernobyl May 12 2005 10:12 AM EDT

If spam is a big problem, maybe do what AIM did and have a "warn" feature that will allow people to flag other people if they are abusing CM/chat. When the flags go up, people get advance warning that the sender may be unwanted; if someone gets a whole lot of flags, everyone will plainly see that they're a chat-bomber and can just refuse their CM's. If someone gets just 'a' flag, it's no big deal but if they get five in a week,they're likely to be at least an obnoxious chatter if not worse. I've seen this system work better than moderated chat before since it effectively turns everyone into a demi-moderator and forces people to think twice about what they say and what they're replying to.

On a related point, this goes out to EVERYONE who has ever gotten a CM they didn't immediately understand:
Community -> Chatmail will show the last ones YOU'VE sent too!!!

QBsutekh137 May 12 2005 11:46 AM EDT

There is a fine line, and I totally agree with placing controls over that which we CAN control. If you can figure out a way to prevent it here in CB, then more power to you.

I wasn't trying to promote apathy, though I think that is how I came off...spam disgusts me too, but someone who says, "meh, spam", while annoying, does not disgust me. I do not interpret the libe:

"Spam isn't a problem since you can just ignore it if you don't like it."

as condoning anything. I think it is a bit naive, since spam IS a problem (you don't need to do much research to find out the resources and bandwidth wasted on it), but as with all problems, one has to choose one's battles. If the poster had said:

"Genocide isn't a problem since you can just ignore it if you don't like it.."

I would probably have been disguted too.

AdminJonathan May 12 2005 11:52 AM EDT

sure, but I was taking Brandon's last post in context, particularly with his first

QBsutekh137 May 12 2005 1:56 PM EDT

I can see your point.

{CB3}-HR22 May 12 2005 2:18 PM EDT

wow, that was a good 20 minute read
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