A suggestion for solving the NUM (in General)


Duke June 19 2005 6:04 PM EDT

We all know that NUB is a probleme.For most players is not as they dont play that often but some will spend 1000 ba per day with NUB so they will reach TOP 50 players very fast.

So came with the Idea of a cap base on BA spend.So camper/forger/fighters play on equal field as they have a limited number of BA with the NUB.Also that level thing for new players.

So a limit can be set at about 50K BA.The buy that you can buy should not be include.

AdminShade June 19 2005 6:13 PM EDT

perhaps implement that the NUB gradually gets less in time?

LumpBot June 19 2005 6:21 PM EDT

I always thought the NW=PR was good at keeping Newbs away. Just make the game more confusing and maybe no one will join and *poof* we no longer have a NUB problem =P

QBRanger June 19 2005 6:25 PM EDT

Yes, but all a noob has to do is be a SMTOE or equivalent and reap plenty of cash and xp, and in no time compared to us old guard, make the top 20.

CoolWater June 19 2005 6:39 PM EDT

I think everyone should get NUB except the top 10 players. But the bonus varies depending on their level. Higher level gets lower bonus. This gives everyone a chance to catch up to the top. So it's up to the top 10 to keep their level at the top. But once they drop below top 10, they start to get bonus. I think this will be better for all players.

Maelstrom June 19 2005 6:39 PM EDT

NUB? NUM? huh?

LumpBot June 19 2005 6:44 PM EDT

Yeah give us all bonuses because we all fight. It would however sky rocket forging since they will always keep a bonus. Also it would be fun because we could put no dedication into the game. Every time you start to fall behind you just get great rewards and sky rocket to the topish again.
</Sarcasm>

Mikel June 19 2005 6:45 PM EDT

I agree with your style of play should effect your max potentional of BA's.

Just doing some basic math:

Regen Max Purch Potentional
Rate Regn BA BA's
10 1440 700 2140
9 1296 648 1944
8 1152 548 1698
7 1008 503 1511

I think those are fairly correct, I wasn't paying attention when I first started.

Campers should get less BA's at a higher rate, he's going to make his money thru sales, and he doesn't really care about MPR.

Forgers are the same, they should get less BA's at a higher rate, he gets his money from forging and MPR.

Fighters should get more BA's at a Lower rate since this is how they will make their money or increased $ from wars, MPR can stay the same as it is currently.

These are what see would help some with the NUB and the non-NUB's.

So you could base the % on what that player has done for the last 3 days or so with their BA to find out what category they fit into. That way it won't be exploited for wacky time. (IE Wacky Time is tomorrow so today I have to fight so I can get a better bonus etc).

ok I'd like to hear some Professional Criticism and not flames. Thx

LumpBot June 19 2005 6:51 PM EDT

Mikel, I couldn't argue with your idea more. Sefton does camping/fighting, so how would you figure that? So do I
Also, campers NEED BA and lots of it. You think we enter the stores once every 5 minutes? Many campers don't fight so BA is super cheap (58 a BA or something)

This idea sounds like a great way to confuse the masses. I think the simplest way is what everyone suggest. Make the NUB decrease over time and EXP earned.

Undertow June 19 2005 6:56 PM EDT

So, Mikel, campers should get less BA because that's how they make money. Forgers should get less BA because that's how they make money. Fighters should get more ba because they DON'T make money? That's flawed logic.

The debate on whether you make more money forging or fighting is still out, but it's leaning towards fighting, especially under a 75% rate.

So, fighters make more money than forgers, but forgers should get less BA?

God hates you.

Mikel June 19 2005 7:16 PM EDT

Space:
How about for every item you camp, you get a score, if your score reaches a certain level then you get classified as a camper regardless of the fighting.
I camp as well, just not to the degree the rest of you do.
The NUB does decrease once you hit certain set marks in the game.


Undertow:
I know nothing about Forging and tbh if I would only do it for myself if I needed to, otherwise I'd use the Smithy as I find forging boring, so I really don't have any idea how much they make, that is more of why I asked for help. Also if the NUB should not effect Forging so that the rates stay stable at 80% what is the verdict on $ for forging vs fighting then?

I appreciate your comments and I"m very green, haven't even cracked my 1 month anniversary yet :) I just like the game and want to keep the vets and help it draw new players.

The problem I have is that some of you are just saying things like kill the NUB, or I'll delete my account and start over etc, that is not solving the problem only creating more, if you have an idea, post it and let others help you work out the details. We can't go backwards in the game to the way it was type thing, we can only keep moving forward. I prefer Evolution to Revolution.

LumpBot June 19 2005 7:17 PM EDT

That every item could be bad. I haven't camped much lately, but I got an amazing 48 hours. So it would be confusing. Let's keep the game simple ;)

Mikel June 19 2005 7:36 PM EDT

Spaceman,
the game itself is not simple:
we have auctions that control the pricing of the Items and threads that also do the same thing.
That there is the fighting rewards system of PR vs higher/lower PR. Newbs such as myself think pump AC, get a good weapon etc. and to a degree that is right but also will kill you if you don't know what you are doing. I was thouroughly confused for my first two weeks, until I started figuring out what does/doesn't work then I was able to take off.

Warchild June 19 2005 7:53 PM EDT

Currently the NUB is based on time i think it would be better suited if it were based on other factors. Namely battles fought, $ amount forged, and BA spent on camping. After a certain amount of any one of these things is met then the NUB should be ended. The amount could be a percentage of the highest non-NUB user in each category when the new user starts. This would set it up so that a new player could fight a bit, forge a bit, and camp a bit (as long as they did not go over the limits in any category) so that they could get a taste for all the "uses" of BA (not to mention people abusing the system by getting a low pr character with the NUB and constantly forging or camping with it and not raising their MPR)

Warchild June 19 2005 8:02 PM EDT

Ok the last part of that last sentence sounds a little confusing. What I was trying to say was that stopping the NUB after any one of the benchmarks was met will hinder people from abusing the system by getting a low pr character (with the NUB) and forging or camping while keeping the NUB forever because their battles fought did not go up or fighting and camping and never forging to keep, etc...

LumpBot June 19 2005 8:23 PM EDT

Mikel thank you very much for telling me how to play the game. I'm glad I know now after a 1 month veteran has taught me. I never knew the game was confusing. Now read my first post where I said it was all ready too confusing and we should simplify it ;)

Duke June 19 2005 10:37 PM EDT

Warchild

My solution cover everything if they camp forge or fight they will spend BA so if they spend X amount of BA on fighting or forging it do not matter when the reach the limit they will lose there NUB or if they buy a larger char time the time limitation wil come 1.

onlyyouknow June 19 2005 10:43 PM EDT

I also think it should be the amount of BA used. The newbie bonus is just not fair if its done in terms of time. Should be every 200 BA, maybe drop by 1% or somewhere along that line.

Maelstrom June 19 2005 11:07 PM EDT

Personally, I don't see the NUB as much of a problem. I'm actually glad every time a newbie pops up up out of nowhere and into my fight range - it's just another target! But I haven't put as much time, effort and real money into the game as the top players.

I understand that from their perspective, it would be very irritating to have to compete with the newbies, after all the time they've spent.

This is why I agree that the NUB is overpowered, but only because it is based only in terms of time. However, making the NUB only based on BA would just make being a newbie more frustrating: from the newbies perspective, the time they spend learning how to play the game (learning/unlearning skills, buying/selling DCMs, etc.) would be a terrible waste of their NUB.

How about new users get say, 2 weeks of full NUB to help them learn the game, then every X amount of BA, the NUB decreases by Y percent.

BooDiggens June 20 2005 4:35 AM EDT

So shortly after I moved out at 18, I found out my little sister got $100 a month for doing the same chores as I did for "a roof over my head."

My first thought was, "That's not fair." But at the same time, I realized I had gained more character earning my keep.
______________________________________

So newbs get a little help to start out with, but how many of them actually utilize it to it's full pontential. This would involve both an inquisitive new player who's not afraid ask questions and that listens to advice, and also a good mentor. A relationship that doesn't happen often.

And can you really put a price tag on the knowledge and respect of being a seasoned veteran ;)

Maelstrom June 20 2005 9:15 AM EDT

lol, so anyone who received the newbie bonus will be forever branded as a newbie?

[T]Vestax June 20 2005 3:48 PM EDT

Disclaimer: At some points in this post you may think you know my opinion, but I ask that if your going to take the time to respond, then take the time to read it in full.

Maelstrom, your comment is probably more true then you think. I am quite skeptical of some of your fears about new players. In another forum post I saw Ranger crying out load about how a new player could get where he is now in September. Yet all the while he never notices that in CB terms that is a lot of water under the bridge. Can you really call that person a new player anymore by then. By the simple fact that he gets a NUB he, and myself, may always be branded as a newb.

Personally, you can take my NUB and carp it for all I care.

I feel as though I'm someone inflicted with affirmative action and yet who is someone who never wanted the leg up. I will never get the respect I deserve as long as people can look and see when it was that I had joined, or if they can check out my Battles as Challenger and compare it to my MPR. It doesn't matter to them that I have spent hours and even days studying the games dynamics and looking through the help pages and FAQ's. Surely I may never know as much as Shade with his graphs, but I feel I know enough to help new players myself, which I often make a point to do.

The solutions above are nice and all, but it doesn't eliminate the disproportionate Battles as Challenger vs. MPR ratio. Most of your ideas also add much more complexity to the game, which may be a drop in the bucket compared to it's current complexity, but that still makes it that much more unlikely to be implemented. A simple reward would also be easier for older players to except as well. Not to mention that a new player that does know what they are doing can easily manipulate the bonus to be just as unfair as it now.

I honestly thought the motto of the game was sit down and start clicking, so I say if you want to give a new player a leg up, then let him/her click for that bonus. A NUB that increases the amount of buyable BA is very simple and applies to all the productive actions of the game. If a new player wants to catch up to you then by all means let them click for every last one of those rewards. This means no more disproportionate ratios and no complicated adjustments to BA cost, rewards, forging and whatever else needs adjusting. It also means that once a player catches up to Ranger or anyone else with their similar MPR, it doesn't mean they have really caught up since Ranger has gotten more free BA while the others had to pay for it.

That's it. You may now hack down my ideas and opinions.

[T]Vestax June 20 2005 4:18 PM EDT

I do foresee only one problem with my own solution at the moment and I figured I should be the one to point it out. It is simply that new players will become much better at earning clan points then veterans, but only if they become wise as to how clan points are earned. A player that eventually learns how to play the game could more easily put their clan on the top and reap the clan bonus for more battles.

In a way though I think this might actually balance clans out a bit more since the status quo encourages clan sizes of about 5 to 8 people. This would make the limit of 12 people a real limit worth reaching and would make new players more valuable members of each clan. Plus the system isn't all that different with Higher PR players earning less BA per day.

Plus you could always adjust the NUB so that it assumes the player to be getting a 15% clan bonus the whole time thus setting the players back just a little bit. It would be conceivable they could catch up to you before the NUB wore out in three months or so, but highly unlikely if you yourself are active enough.

[T]Vestax June 20 2005 11:02 PM EDT

bump

AdminShade June 21 2005 2:55 PM EDT

day 0, signup day: xx% (now 120%)
day 1, little less (being xx% / amount of days the newb has the bonus (now 3 months?)

and thus:
after 1 month: 2/3 of the bonus (so 80% now)
after 2 months 1/3 of the total bonus (now 40%)
after 3 months, gone

the bonus will slowly flow away making the newb continue to put efforts in to keep on gaining the good rewards :)
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