Give me a good TBF strat, you win everything on Goldminer (in Contests)


Arorrr June 21 2005 3:02 PM EDT

Yes, I'm very serious about this. If you can come up with a good TBF strat that is on par with these current good strats, you win everything on Goldminer, including the character.

Good and wellrounded current strats (IMO):
+ELB/ToA combo
+ToF, FB mage combo
+ToE/ FB|CoC Mage, W/MgS combo
+WT, WTM or ETM combo with DD/ToJ tat
+Naked team with ToJ combo

Good polarized strats but not wellround, thus = bad strat (IMO)
+Single UC (Brock Samson)
+4EC team
+Sucidal decay team

The catch is:
+Has to include TBF at appropriate level (not a reink bloated ToJ)
+Has to be on par with the above listed good and wellrounded strats, judge by me. The baseline is if you can come up with an equal or better strat than my old ToF/W/FB Mage.
+The strat must be centered around TBF (ie: not an hybrid of x100 ELB or anything of such.)
+No crazy items combo (4DB, 4 ELB, 4 MH, x100 ELB/Compound or anything out of line like Sefton's Gyrax char). Good baseline is around total 10M NW and total intrinsic NW no more than 20 CB2 (tattoe value/nw does not count toward NW).

Deadline for submission is anytime before July 1st, here in this post. 1 submission per account.

The price is everything currently equipped on Goldminer, plus the character. Total worth is at least over 200 USD (that I pumped in) and more.

Remember, the strat is jugded by me. It must be good vs majority. In case there is more than 1 good TBF strat and I couldn't decide, there will be a vote.

And NO, I'm not leaving CB2 nor going to sell any items on Goldminer. 8^)

Game on and please be gentle.

Arorrr June 21 2005 3:18 PM EDT

Total intrinsic NW: 20 CB2 should be 20M CB2.

Relic June 21 2005 3:28 PM EDT

I am testing out a TBF strat right now.

It is one minion currently, but will eventually become two. Not for a while though.

1st Minion: HP (22.6%) / ST (22.6%) / DX (22.6%) / UC (22.2%) / AMF (10%)
Items:
TBF
DB
TG
HoE
Staff Sling
Iron Shots/Explosive Shots

* Next minion to add which would be a meatshield in the front
2nd Minion: HP (80%) / BL (20%)
Items:
AC
CoI
CML or DB
TG
HoD
MgS

Have no idea if it will be a competitor or not, but I will try it out.

Odysseus June 21 2005 4:29 PM EDT

I will give it a try, I thought about a good TBF strat myself too. At first a TBF does great backfire to tanks. This together with a good AMF minion should be a really good combination. There is one 'but': you'll need to get to the melee rounds, so big HP or AS is required too.

Since you can only equip one tattoo, a possibility of an archer/bloodlust minion isn't a good option, since you don't have the huge ToA-advantage. In my opinion there also should be a mage in this team. All combined it formes to something like this:

Minion 1

AMF

This is the enchanter, with a huge AMF . I chose for AMF only, because this way you can return a lot of damage to the mages. The TBF cares for the melee attackers. When you got AMF to about half your PR, you can put some points in HP, to create a secondary wall.

Minion 2

Wall, HP, GA

This minion will be the wall, it will soak up all the ranged damage, and will backfire a percentage of the damage done to you, thanks to the GA. This minion needs a great amount of AC of course. You mainly focus on the HP, because the GA can be taken down by DM.

Minion 3

Mage, holds the TBF

This is the minion that does the direct damage. You can choose for Coc when you want to focus totally on the melee rounds. In my opinion it would be smarter to take MM or FB, since these spells do damge in ranged rounds as well. of course this mage needs some HP too.

If you prefer a four minion team, you can choose for another mage or a AS enchanter. This is up to you, you have to try this out. When you just don't do enough direct damage you can add the mage. When you need more HP to live till the melee round you can get a AS minion, or another wall.

I hope you like my idea and I'm very curious about the things others will come up with.

TheEverblacksky June 21 2005 4:33 PM EDT

if you were going to go odysseus' way you should try putting the GA on the AMF enchanter.... if you put wall armor on that wall it will kill the GA.

Odysseus June 21 2005 4:41 PM EDT

Yeah, I thought about that too, but then you won't get the big AMF, that's so important. But your right about the AC killing the GA. The GA can also be put (on one of) the mage(s).

Jason Bourne June 21 2005 4:49 PM EDT

everyone knows the best way to have a solid strat is to follow the KISS rules (keep it simple stupid) so here is what i propose.

focus on the natural benefits of the TBF. what are these? a bonus to evasion and damage back when you get hit. hmm sounds like a Flaming Guardian Angel to me :) so thats what we will make it.

SET UP:
Guardian Angel (minion 1): welcome to the party boys!. this guy is going to have a guardian angel just as big as the most damage you have ever recieved. whatever is left over goes into AMF. the objet here is to get hit!

Angel (minion 2): heavy ac, Loads of HP. remember Rangers old wall that had some ST and a little Dex? follow that. you are going to need something to mop up enchanters. hes also got an MgS so mages take even more of thier magic from amf, and ga lasts longer and is more effective.

Demon (minion 3): this guy holds the TBF. after angel takes all the beatings and weeds out the lower hp guys, they are going to be weak after they break through Angel (minion 1) up there. so when they hit you, they are going to get a double dose of fire, and GA



heres how it could go down...

minion a attacks you in ranged 3 times, and on the last round finally takes Angel out. mission accomplished for Angel. you have now done one half of Angels HP back to him through your GIANT GA.

now he is in melee, going agains someone with a huge amount of HP's again, but not as much AC. ur AC should be big on Demon, but it cant be huge cause your missing a cloak and body armor. he is going to hit Demon for even more damage (assuming in this case that his ranged and melee hits are equal for the moment) and so he will take back even more from GA, killing himself faster. BUT, he also just smacked into your TBF. not only is he taking large hits on his HP from your GA, but he just got a TBF hit on top of that!

plus, the tbf also lowers damage from FB, one of the leading magic spells, and so you will be well rounded. maybe give demon a small weapon as well, so he can pick on the enchanters with only 20 hp.

if you were realling feeling up to it, you could also hire a DM minion, this will get rid of those nasty spells that you wont like such as VA (will lesten the blow from your GA) and AS (which would keep them alive longer, and make the battles longer)

if i was going TBF, id focus on them killing themselves, because that is what the Tattoo's all about. ...you hit me, i burn you
have fun and good luck!

BooDiggens June 21 2005 4:59 PM EDT

Two minion team. TM

Start off with a single FB mage, and train (3/8 HP) (3/8 FB) (1/4 Dispel magic)
Around 50k or higher add a second minion, which at first will act like a wall. Just train HP and Dex 1/2 and 1/2 and put the TBF on this minion. As his dex gets high enough to avoid double and triple hits from other tanks, then comes the time train Str. Then you can put a bow or xbow on the tank and make him a seeker. I lean more towards the Xbow though because seeker bolts are cheaper.

Honestly in this strategy the TBF isn't the most intrinsic part of the offense, really is the FB and DM. With this strategy you're hoping to kill your enemy in the ranged rounds. If that doesn't happen your tank will be shielded from most splash damage in melee. And this is when the TBF comes into play. I'm currently developing this strategy on my character Phi.

Arorrr June 21 2005 5:05 PM EDT

I'm going to discuss each strategy one-by-one.

Glory strats:
1st Minion: HP (22.6%) / ST (22.6%) / DX (22.6%) / UC (22.2%) / AMF (10%)
Items: TBF, DB, TG, HoE, Staff Sling, Iron Shots/Explosive Shots

* Next minion to add which would be a meatshield in the front
2nd Minion: HP (80%) / BL (20%)
Items: AC, CoI, CML or DB, TG, HoD, MgS

This strat weakness:
1. ToE Mages: FB will kill you in melee since TBF FB blocks a fixed number. In melee, FB damages exploded. For example, my TBF minion gets like 60K damage while my 0.3 AMF damage only ~5K to the FB minion with ToE, and about 10K damage to the friendly-FB minion with a MgS. So you can see FB will kill you quick when TBF-T/BL-T do not deal damage that much in range. Also, BL tank with MgS negates the MgS power somewhat with BL.
2. ToE CoC: this is the bane for your strat. Same deal. Your T do not do enough range damage. In melee, CoC will kill both of you fast.
3. ToA/Elb: without protection/AC, your TBF-T will hardly make out of range rounds. Let says first two round kills your MgS-T, then last round done it with your TBF-T.
4. Combination of: MM, CoC, and Range will also superior. Even ToJ naked team can be superior.

Benefit from this strat:
1. Heavy ToJ team (non-DD team)
2. Heavy UC team

Mags June 21 2005 5:08 PM EDT

You could've left it just at "polarized", you know. ;D

This is a fascinating contest, and I too would love to see something interesting done with a TBF.

I'd suggest a very simple two-minion design. You need to maximize the effect of the TBF, implicitly meaning you need to increase the amount of HP the TBF is around for, and fewer minions is the best for this. At the same time, you need more diversity to deal with various strats.

Minion 1: AMF + AS + Exbow
Minion 2: HP + GA + TBF + FB

Minion 2 gets TBF to minimize effect of ranged damage(unless seekers are used, obviously). Alternatively put it on minion 1 to reduce the effect of Fireball backwash.

Arorrr June 21 2005 5:13 PM EDT

BooDiggin strat:

TM with ToE is more beneficial than ToBF. At current state, ToE blocks more damage than ToBF. Even a MgS with ToE halo is better than full ToBF in melee.

If you want to do evasion T that is more like a W and a FB/DM mage, the best strat is go with your same experience set up, except:
T: MgS,DB,special Xbow
M: ToE FB

BooDiggens June 21 2005 5:19 PM EDT

I could do that, but that would be boring. I admit, I may be more effective with a ToE, but I like to be a trailblazer. Watch when my strategy is fully developed it will be awesome.

WeaponX June 21 2005 5:23 PM EDT

Minion 1 Wall 100% HP. Equipment AC CML HoD SC MS

Minion 2 FB mage 50% FB 50% HP Equipment DB CoI MCM EG

Minion 3 TBF Wall/Enchanter 50% HP 50% GA Equipment Corn DB EG

Minion 4 DM enchanter 100% DM Equipment Corn DB


Note the minions are out of order.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 21 2005 5:23 PM EDT

I would say a 4 minion team, EWTM

Enchanter - 1/3 AMF, 3/4 AS

Wall - ToBF, HP

Tank - ELB +whatever melee, Archery HP, STR, DX, and Base Prot

Mage - Fireball + (optional 1/5-1/10 GA)

Arorrr June 21 2005 5:25 PM EDT

SoulCalibur strategy:

1. GA, AMF
2. W
3. TBF+HP or TBF+ light Tank

This is a bad strat because you will lose to ToA/ELB 100%. For the rest, any CoC team will chew you up good. Any team with heavy MM mage/ToJ will kill you. Any team with heavy archer will kill you. Only teams that are heavy W and light tank will have trouble killing you, but most of the time will end up as stalemate.

Though this strat may work if you twist it right. However you must explain on how you will survive ToA/ELB or even ToA+VA. I ran into a few of these ToA+VA; most of them have DM. They suck so much blood from tripple hits vs your tanks so you can barely kill them with GA/TBF. Remember ToA = automatic tripple hit vs your W and light-tank. Whereae your TBF only damages one.

It may work if you neutralize their VA, but then you won't have GA.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 21 2005 5:25 PM EDT

*or switch the ToBF to the Mage, either one would be good i guess, maybe the ToBF on the Mage would be better to give the Wall more AC.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 21 2005 5:28 PM EDT

agh, meant to say 2/3 AS...lol. Ok, thats my last post...=P

Arorrr June 21 2005 5:29 PM EDT

Smallpau1

Your current strat is very closed to what I have right now, though my strat is a little better.

I have 2 W while you only have 1 W: MgS+TBF against FB. It's not good enough vs majority out there. For none-FB team, you are in worst position since your W is nothing but a meatshield with no offensive.

QBRanger June 21 2005 5:32 PM EDT

Basically this is a trick question. Why? Let's talk about all the other tats first. FF, IF, SF all deal damage. The TOE reduces ALL damage types, both magical and physical. The TOA augments a tanks str/dex high enough to let them deal more damage then normal at the characters PR level. The TOJ soaks up all types of damage and can attack and evade melee attacks with evasion and its high dex.
Now the TBF. It only protects vs one type of damage-FB. It only does damage vs tanks not mages. So it underpowered vs the other tats. If you must use one, use it like you would have used a CBF. Either on a single FB mage, or on a "wall". However the wall will be less of one due to the inability to use body armor, so a mini-tank like Jochumia has is a possibility.

Arorrr June 21 2005 5:34 PM EDT

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this old CB1 strat:
AS
AS
GA/AMF/TBF
MgS+HP

Only draw back is DM and how to kill enemy W?? which is a major drawback.

Arorrr June 21 2005 5:45 PM EDT

Odysseus has the best strat so far, though I'm still deciding if it will work vs majority out there. Also I would put GA on AMF Enchanter so I can use MgS. It will be like:
1. Heavy AMF, some GA
2. All HP W+Mgs
3. HP/CoC/FB+TBF.

The draw back is still of course, ToA/ELB but any FB team without archery will lose to this strat, except DM/ToA/VA team. ToE CoC team will have an upper hand. ToJ+seeker+DM will also have a slightly upper hand. However this is a well rounded strat.

At the end, this strat effectively a EWM strat. Pretty good. Let me think more about this.

tWIsTEd June 21 2005 5:49 PM EDT

i think u should have a 3 minion team

Minion 1 - AMF and GA
first would be the enchanter with AMF and GA with mostly AMF like a little over half and the rest GA, because of those mages. the AMF should be large enough to reflect most of the damage from the mages back to them and the GA should do the same (if it isnt taken out by enemy DM) so you might be able to take out those mages faster.

Minion 2 - FB mage and DM
next would be the mage/ enchanter , maybe a large fireball mage with mostly FB ( to do large damage in range rounds) and some HP, and the rest in DM because of those other GAs and maybe add a Corn/ CoI if possible . the DM should take care of the opponents enchanted defense, and keep you from recieving more damage.

Minion 3 - Tank with TBF and EC
and last would be the tank which is where the TBF is going to be put. if the second minion, the mage, makes it into melee rounds, hes not going to do much damage to the tank because of the protection from the TBF. the TBF will damage the opponent and protect the tank from other FB mages. the tank should be equipped with DBs , EGs,a HoE, a Axbow, and a VB, or a MH to help take down the opponent's dex/ defenses, if hes a tank, or use a midsized ELB to maximize damage in range rounds. the ethereal chains would help by decreasing other tank's dex even more so you can get more hits in.

Vaynard [Fees Dirt Cheap] June 21 2005 5:50 PM EDT

Here, I suppose I'll give this a shot. Thanks for the opportunity to think about strategy- I love this.

The team I would go with, if centered around a ToBF, would be 4 minion. The main reason is this would create a ton of HP through AS and help GA, and make a natural wall to archers. My minions would be:

Minion 1: AS only. Get the team a good amount of HP, always nice.
Minion 2: 1/2 AMF + 1/2 GA. This is mage blender, so of course a decent size AMF is necessary. Once the GA is of decent size to regularly do okay return damage, focus AMF.
Minion 3: AS focus once again, but also with a small to medium sized decay. Also train a small amount of HP later on.
Minion 4: To start with I would say go 1/2 HP and 1/2 CoC. This guy is meant to go to melee, so give him lotsa HP. If he's getting hosed by AMF, start focusing on CoC more. He also has the ToBF.

My thoughts: Having two large AS's will give you a nice HP boost and help your team survive. The good sized GA will mean lotsa damage back to those tank teams out there with a ToA. The added health also means your decay mage very well should make it to melee and help against those large single minions, as well as Walls. The last minion is meant to last longest- and with all his HP plus the AS, he will be sitting good. He will also be the finisher and killer. The enemy teams using FB will be ineffective since the damage is spread among 4 and he can absorb FB pretty well with his tattoo. Tank minions will easy succumb to the decay / AS-GA combo and the CoC, but if they don't the backlash damage from tattoo will do the trick.

The main teams in CB are tanks, which this hoses effectively I am sure, and mages. Mage teams will have their damage divided by 4, plus the AMF and GA to deal with. And if they used FB, which is the most popular DD spell out there, you've got it. To make it better- give the first 3 minions Mage Shields. Your magic damage soaking would skyrocket higher than it is already.

I see only two main problems. Both aren't used much, but need to be looked at. First is DM using mage teams. This however is why the mage and the decay mage need HP sooner or later. But if they go DM this also means this team will do nice magic damage. Second problem is seeker ammo. Not sure on this one. I'll just say that the AS/GA will hopefully be enough to kill the enemy if my mages die first. And seekers are rarely used anyway as far as I'm concerned. If this became a problem, add more HP and AS.

Well, that's it. Hope it made sense. Feel free to CM with questions. I believe this to be a very stable strat that could hose those pesky mages and tanks out there. Your last minion with ToBF would be immune to the most used DD spell and would dish the damage back, and he would certainly give back the damage to any tanks that got to him. Thanks for reading.

AdminShade June 21 2005 6:23 PM EDT

I am just putting a general thing up here, could be a strategy, could be not as I'm not planning my 'speach' ahead... :)

Popularity: Percent of all minions who have trained the stat

Fireball 17.4%
Magic missile 23.8%
Cone of cold 9.3%
Decay 1.5%

XP trained: Percent of all trained xp used for the given stat
Fireball 10.9%
Magic missile 8.5%
Cone of cold 4.2%
Decay 0.5%
ST 6.6%

Which means a lot of people use either FB or MM but have more exp trained into FB than in MM
Also good to see is that there aren't too many big Tanks (less exp spent on ST than on either FB or MM...

so the way to make your ToBF to be more useful is to work with its strong points.

ToBF blocks fire damage and deals fire damage to melee attackers.
which means strong against Tanks and FB mages.


- AMF, blocks more magic damage, which makes it even more powerful against FB.
- ToBF on a Wall, will make the minion get less damage, ToBF damage doesn't depend on damage received but it's level.

Now a ToBF Wall isn't too good imo since you would need a lot of AC to lower the damage a lot, missing the Cloak and Body armor slots would mean missing out on Adamantite Cuirass and Shadow Cloak, the items giving lots and lots of (cheap) AC.

Other way of getting your ToBF to do its job well: HP!

The more HP the minion with the ToBF has the more damage it can take, (and the more damage it could do back through the ToBF for melee tanks)

so then you have 3 elements: AMF, AC (still a way to make your ToBF minion block good damage with other things) and HP
Also you need to make sure your ToBF minion lives in melee rounds


Minion 1: Enchanter with AMF & AS trained 50:50
Armor: basic leathers, stats: as you desire.

Minion 2: Mage with Fireball, HP & Protection. (possibly even some Evasion trained) Protection not trained too high to not make the HP or Fireball smaller (in other words train something between 1/4th and 1/5th of the exp into the Protection, it should be enough) split HP and Fireball almost 50:50
Armor: The ToBF, DB's, rest filled as you wish, Buckler preferred for additional AC, penalty is small enough to be worth it.

The DB's are a bit the key to this minion along with the ToBF and some AC (50 AC blocks ~10% of physical damage, and isnt too hard to get even without the Body armor, Cloak and Boots slots (remember DB + isnt AC) ) The DB's along with evasion should make you get only hit single times per round from any tank (or all but the highest tanks, which would get an occasional double against you now)
then your ToBF would do damage in each round against the tank that attacks you, burning while they poke you.

Minion 3: Mage with CoC, HP and GA. Trained at around 1/2:1/3:1/6 resp.
Armor: MCM, CoI, rest filled as you please. Coi @ at least +10 preferred highly.
This minion should be able to do additional damage, if not most (since you will encounter lots of mage teams also.

with this you should be able to wear down tank based teams (except perhaps single tanks) as well as most mage teams


So this did turn out to become a bit of a srtategy with an advanced thought behind it.

Cost: only the DB's, CoI and MCM are somewhat expensive, Cornuthaum could be inserted but is a bit more expensive

NW: not too much except for the DB's since they need to be high, 10 mil would bring you far at around 200k mpr I guess (speculation)

Weaknesses: perhaps DM, since you use 3 major defensive enchantments, but if they have a high enough DM to dispel your enchantments, their other stats shouldnt be too high either ;) (in other words its a mage based character without a high AMF making you deal more damage).


sorry for the long post but i though to be entertaining as well as competitive but mostly just thourough. :)

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 21 2005 6:35 PM EDT

Dont know how the Odyseus' Strat would work at all, but hey, who am i to talk?...=/

Duke June 21 2005 6:36 PM EDT

I go with a really simple strat low cost also

E E E E

75% AS/25% AMF MCM/CORN/base leathers gear
75% AS/25% AMF MCM/CORN/base leathers gear
75% GA/25% AMF MCM/CORN/base leathers gear
75% GA/25% AMF MCM/CORN/base leathers gear

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 21 2005 6:45 PM EDT

ooo, didnt see it had CoC or FB on the 3rd minion...=P

Looks the same as mine, except i had a tank as #3 and a FB mage as #4...=/

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 21 2005 6:53 PM EDT

The TBF only benefits a Single minion team. Much like a ToA.

Single TBF Minion Strat;

Train HP. A lot. You need to survive until Melee. In order to do this train AMF to counter MM and lower FB before the TBF FB reduction kicks in.

With HP and AMF trained, spending xp on Str and Dex is out. Equip the biggest pair of DBs you can afford, they will stack with the +10 Evasion from the TBF. Training the skill will not get you as big a bang for your buck. Large enough, and not only are you reducing tripples from pth, you could also reduce dex based attacks.

In order to do damage, you've only got the DD spells left to train. FB and CoC work better with DM, MM with AMF. But CoC has a damage bonus, and we're trying to last until melee. Still there's a choice between MM and CoC.

Lastly, sink some points into Protection. With a static cost, it's 2fire and forget' and should help you last until melee versus non DM foes. GA is not needed, as you have the TBF for damage return.

In summery;

Train (In order of priority)
HP
AMF
MM/CoC
Protection

And equip the largest DB s you can afford.

maulaxe June 21 2005 6:58 PM EDT

i think that there is just something intrinsically skewed about the ToBF. two things don't really complement each other: 1) evasion - the point of evasion is to not get hit, right? leading to 2) fire splash damage - to have this be useful, you need to be hit.
anyone else see the conflict of interests?
if you try and complement your ToBF with DBs to get nice stackage, you then work against your advantage of backsplash...

this is probably too equipment heavy for what you were looking for, but a heres single tank:
ToBF DB HG (and an HoE if you can)
UC trained to the limit
physical stats trained to a 3/2/1 ratio (HP will probably need to be a bit higher, but should be tweaked as you go along anyways.)

the point behind that is to make it so that at most you will have single hits land on you. that maximizes how much damage you deal back with your cloak in relation to damage dealt to you. It is not meant in any way to stand against mages, but focuses on the ToBF (like you wanted).

Arorrr June 21 2005 9:33 PM EDT

I'm going to try reply to each strat, but it will take time. 8^)

Megaman
Minion 1 Wall 100% HP. Equipment AC CML HoD SC MS
Minion 2 FB mage 50% FB 50% HP Equipment DB CoI MCM EG
Minion 3 TBF Wall/Enchanter 50% HP 50% GA Equipment Corn DB EG
Minion 4 DM enchanter 100% DM Equipment Corn DB

It's a nice strat, though it lacks fire power to finish a fight. It needs to be refined more.

First of, FB mage with only 50% in FB, that's 1/8 of total exp in FB and 1/8 of total HP. As soon as the FB mage dies, which is guarantee with AMF+lack of HP, the battle will end in stalemate at best.

Second, 1/8 exp in GA vs 1/4 exp in DM = why bother training GA? May as well train in all HP, which make a total of 2W with no offensive power in the team.

WeaponX June 21 2005 9:40 PM EDT

the reason you train GA is to counter AMF some what and the FB is only 50% because the CoI will power it up

Arorrr June 21 2005 9:44 PM EDT

Easy answer for these strat:

E E E E
75% AS/25% AMF MCM/CORN/base leathers gear
75% AS/25% AMF MCM/CORN/base leathers gear
75% GA/25% AMF MCM/CORN/base leathers gear
75% GA/25% AMF MCM/CORN/base leathers gear

Bad idea here. 4minion training in AS/AS = a decent DM will negate both AS.

SM-TBF
Another bad idea. You can't go with SMTBF-FB/CoC vs head on with SMTOE-FB. ToE blocks more damage than TBF. I got like 80K damage in melee vs FB on my TBF minion, even I casted 20% AMF. Remember TBF only blocks a fixed number of damage, a hard cap. ToE blocks a % of damage, so it's superior at high curve.

Arorrr June 21 2005 9:48 PM EDT

Megaman,

My current strat has FB mage with ~3M exp FB (when untrain) vs 1.2M exp HP (when untrain). I have the FB mage single up until like 50K level before I hired another minion. Also, I used AS to buff HP. However, I found that my mage survive to melee a lot, just I couldn't dish out enough power to finish the fight.

GA is nice but only 1/8 exp, DM will cancel it many time. A large FB and ToA team out there use DM now a day. Pointless to do it for your current strat.

Arorrr June 21 2005 9:54 PM EDT

Gentleman strat:
Train (In order of priority)
HP
AMF
MM/CoC
Protection

It won't work, again with single mage+TBF. TBF doesn't block that much damage when in single minion mode. ToE is superior in this case.

Same with maulmax UC strat. It works for Brock Samson but not good enough. Now, without Gi, UC is less superior. TBF just to block FB isn't enough when in UC single minion mode.

WeaponX June 21 2005 9:55 PM EDT

the GA in my strat is only for AMF users

Arorrr June 21 2005 10:00 PM EDT

8^) That's it for tonight. I still own 3 more reply to shade and the other 2 above... just too long to type and my head hurt right now.

Note to Jon: please add TBF in the dictionary.... lazy bump. 8^P

flamewind June 21 2005 11:32 PM EDT

The major weakness to a TBF is DD. So the best way to counter this is to overload on AMF, so I'll go with:
Minion 1: Mostly AMF, some prot, about to 10-20, or whatever you feel.
Minion 2: All AS.
Minion 3: Some GA, up to around 30-50k, since people shouldn't be dealing more than that, and either AMF or AS.
Minion 4: TBF guy, with base decay and the rest HP.
You can wall up any of the first three minions, most probably the second or third guy, but that might be a problem. Or you can give decay to the third guy, and just have a TBF wall with mostly HP (90%), 5% Str and 5% Dex to get rid of enchanters.
The problems with this would be huge DM teams, such as with multiple DMs, which would get rid of all but the last guy, who probably won't live to see Decay. But eh. No time to correct it now.

3D June 22 2005 12:23 AM EDT

EWM
E- AMF tiny GA
E- AS
W- HP and have TBF there, so TBF can be utilized fully with all that HP on the wall.
M or Tank (see below)- HP and CoC.

The wall will hold out minions till melee, and with the extra AS boost the Enchanters will hold out most ranged damage on the Wall so the Wall can use full potential with TBF in melee. The Wall will hold out the Tanks in melee and the AMF will hold out other mages so the Cone of Cold Mage will use its full potential in melee also.

For the wall you could put a bit of ST and DX so incase the Mage dies early by seekers the Wall can still attack.

Also, for the Mage you could make it a Tank. Bloodlust or Archery, but Bloodlust may be the better choice here. The tank will hold out till melee because AMF will again hold out the Mages and seekers from tanks wont hit the tank. Then the tank can have and Axbow or Exbow (whichever one you prefer) to slow down any other tanks. Then the Bloodlusted Minion will annihilate the opposing forces.

Mistress Reyna June 22 2005 12:41 AM EDT

Arorr, i will take a stab as a TBF IMO

4 minion team EE(e/w)M

e1: Large ablative shield,(100%) the biggest problem there will be your tbf not getting hit, and magic causes just that, he isnt gonna be hit.

e2: Large AMF(2/3)/Prot) 1/3), this will allow your tbf wearer to last longer and make his way to the next rounds also it will let your two main enchanters take the brunt of the dmg during the ranged rounds as to leave HP on your tbf wearer

e/w: HP (2/3)and Gardian angel(1/3) the large HP will allow your tbf wearer to be hit offen and get the results wanted from the tattoo. the larger the tatto the better as for dmg taken damage dealt variables. The gardian angel will let you do that extra dmg all rounds that way your only dmg makers arnt simply the Mage and the TBF,

M4: cone of cold(1/2) and HP(1/2), the ablative shield and the gardian angel will allow your mage to stick around and do extra dmg during the melee rounds if you want you can go MM as well, stay away from decay because you would get stuck in the end if the e/w dies.

armor possibilitys for the group consists of
E1: Naked preferably as not to jack your pr, if you have room to spare a corn

E2: Naked as well corn if necessary

e/w3: The TBF obviously as well as i would place the standard wall gear on him as his enchantment isnt the primary attribute for him, so TBF, Helm of Durin, ChainMail Leggings, Mithril Shield this will get his ac up so he gets a little of a bonus added on with the protection so he can get hit, activating the TBF, and hopefully staying alive till the next round to wash and repeat. Higher the AC the better This minions HP is its primary..( KEEP ALIVE ) highest potential dmg inducer

M4: I would enlist a pair of DB's for the mage as well as a mcm, and a coi, this way he can get a ac boost as well as last till later rounds, the AS/Prot added with his AC will keep him around so his COC and the GA will be able to continue the onslaught throughout the melee rounds.

Downfalls: Legitamatly i feel that the downsides of this strat are huge elbow/toa teams thwey slaughter you in the archery rounds... primary flaw would be in the archery rounds, but other than that, with proper resource distribution this would be a very effective strat

sorry it was long but i wanted to try my hand at stratageys on a larger scale, Obviously the fractionaly usage of the exp can differ but as a overall whole i say this would be a solid strat


<> Changes <> Droppin e1:amf e2:prot w:hp ga m: mm hp

Warchild June 22 2005 12:48 AM EDT

Minion 1:
AMF 50%, GA 50%( until trained appropriately then 100% into AMF)

Minion 2:
AMF 50%, AS 50%

Minion 3:
HP 22%, ST 22%, DX 22%, UC 33% (yeah I know thats only 99% but it makes since when training)
Combat Gi, EC, DB, HG, HoE, MGS
AxBow

Minion 4:
HP 50%, CoC 50%
TBF

Minion 1+2 are there to take care of most mages with the AMF and add a little damage with the AS+GA combo

Minion 3 is there to get you through ranged by using its evasion to avoid archers and reducing the dx of all physical attackers with the axbow (a exbow could be substituted here if you wanted to reduce damage done instead of number of hits) Additionally the attacking damage from the UC will certainly help anytime this minion gets through ranged

Minion 4 will be doing lots of damage once melee is reached with the CoC and has the TBF to take out any physical attackers that are left

Mistress Reyna June 22 2005 1:13 AM EDT

i realize that it states one submission per account but i would like to change my submission... after carefull thought if you would allow arorrr
to disregard my past strat for this one instead
WETM
the problem with my last strat was that dmg was only being done in melee and going up agianst a TOA/tank would be suicide


W: Huge HP <> Get you through ranged rounds and to soak up the dmg
E: DM hp <> higher HP, this will be your TBF minion, to serve as a secondary wall for your tank
M/E: MM+AS: extra HP for the wall and the tbfer and tank, a few rounds of mm dmg
T: Even stats <> seekers take out your opponents mages during ranged and decent dmg during the melee rounds, this allows you to not use the AMF

Duke June 22 2005 1:13 AM EDT

I think we all when the wrong way including me


EEMT

My idea is to create a pure defence Tank

1 AMF/Haste +500 point in DEX/STR/HP CORN and base leathers gear
With a small bow this char can make about 5 to 10K dmg in range to lead ench in enemy team

2 AMF/Haste +500 point in DEX/STR/HP CORN and base leathers gear
With a small bow this char can make about 5 to 10K dmg in range to lead ench in enemy team.Yes it the same as previus minion

3 25% HP 75% FB COI and base leathes gear.
That minion job is to finish ench in front in make some scratch on Wall and tank.Also with is dex boost from haste he wont get double hit too much and some non-ToA tank will miss.

4 minion Hp 50% STR 50% and some dex not much ELB/BTH MS DB HoE Tulka TBF

This char will have decent dex to hit everything except ToA-Tank.Is evasion from DB/TBF with is decent dex will prevent a lot of hit.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] June 22 2005 1:24 AM EDT

I also think it was kind of a trick question, but I think I figured out the puzzle. My clanmate, if I do win, I may only want the Corn, cause I do not want to lose your clan participation :)

This is in order

1) HP AMF HASTE DBs
2) BL HP ST DX AXBOW MORG MgS
3) EVASION HP FB
4) EVASION FP CoC ToBF

Pour every ounce of allowable NW into the tank axbow, primarily + but a hefty X will help, then NW into the front enchanter DB's, then MgS, and finally into the morg.

pick a strat any strat and show me where this is weak. If they go DM to nerf the haste, then the DD spells kick in. If they go AMF to nerf DD, then haste kicks in the evasion works and DB's work to make up any difference in the DX gap on the tanks. The axbow will help drop any ToA tank down and the AMF will stop most mages. You ToBF the CoC mage so that if the FB guy makes it to melee with him he is unhurt relatively speaking by the backlash. Best I can tell this leverages the evasion on the ToBF, the Fireball protection from it, and then lastly allows the damage from the melee round to work. The evasion is optional and can me minimal if it doesn't stack well on the ToBF evasion and takes too many exp points away.

Show me the money :)

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 22 2005 3:57 AM EDT

:D Nice use of the TBF as a friendly FB damage reducer! (I was gonna make a general post about FB friendly fire as it's now no longer possible to protect more than one minion on a team versus it... But forgot until now!)

But what about facing a team using both DM and AMF? :P

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 22 2005 4:08 AM EDT

If we can enter more than once;

1) Wall with MgS + base Protection.
2) HP, FB, DM, GA
3) Tank with BL, TBF and DB s. Weapons of Choice.

The wall soaks up any MM and splits CoC/FB damage and at least 1 but hopefully more ELB rounds. The TBF is to protect the tank from friendly FB splash and add +10 to thier DB s, the melee splah is purely gravy. The FB mage is to take out enchanters, and do as much damage as it can. If a opposing tank (possibly a ToA tank) get's to melee your tank, the TBF + GA should cause it to take damage while hitting you (if your DB s are big enough, then the TBF only hitting once per round isn't too much of a problem.

You also have the possibility to add a decay mage/enchanter into the mix if large AC opponents are becoming too much of a problem.

:)

[T]Vestax June 22 2005 6:15 AM EDT

I see way too many AS, GA, AMF, meat shield teams on this strat discussion. Quite honestly if that is what your going to build then may I suggest you drop the tat completely and just go naked since the NW for a high ToBF is just going to hurt you more then help you.

Ranger is completely right about what a ToBF is good for as far as I'm concerned. You should put it on a single minion mage or a wall. The consensus of everyone who is posting seems to lean a lot further to the wall-based strat. The real argument is of two things, what kind of wall and what goes around it. However, let's just clear one thing up.

Putting ToBF on a mage isn't much of a team and anyone can think to do it. The problem is that we all agree already that ToE would be a much better choice even for a FB mage that could use the ToBF to undercut it's own damage. On top of that this strat shouldn't be doing very well in the future since SMToE w/ FB are already rampant and everyone that knows it will start to take measures to limit their success within their own strats.

Now about building our wall. Let's start are strat by braking everthing down to the basics. We need to do two basic things in combat, defend and attack (Or as I would rather put it “live and kill”.) Let's worry later about all the ways we can do damage. The question is now what do we need to defend. The list is physical (melee & ranged), magical (FB, MM, CoC, & Decay), and Enchantment (AMF & GA). Most people think they can take it easy on the DD because of the FB protection, but you need an AMF to go with a wall just for Decay and CoC alone. Without nerfing CoC your not much of a wall because what your protecting is going to die anyhow. So we'll add AMF to the list:

Big AMF enchanter

If AMF is big enough then we can just skip to physical damage. We have two things to worry about now, ranged and melee. In ranged there are a couple of ways to be targeted for attack, front minion, highest mage (seekers), highest DX (axbow), and highest ST (exbow). Seekers are easy, just don't have a mage, While axbows and exbows are uncommon. ELB w/ slayers are your biggest threat most of the time. The enchanter helps in this case since he can take away a hit. This is where we start thinking about our wall. He'll sit behind the E with the ToBF, this much we know. ToBF gives +10 evasion yet steals a cape and armor slot so an evasive wall is your best bet, especially since we nerfed DD. So train ½ HP and ½ DX and throw on DB's since they stack on the +10. You can also get EG's and such to increase the DX, but I think the DB's are the centerpiece. This covers protection pretty well so let's add it to the list:

Big AMF Enchanter
½ HP ½ DX Wall w/ ToB, DB
Absolutely No Mage

Alright what about attack, well we already said no to a mage so we're stuck with tanks and archers or with another enchanter with GA. I say the wall is better if it's actually protecting something, so I say go with the a tank since backlash damage is covered already and since GA can stalemate too often. You might even be able to afford to Push that ST really high but keep it so DX is under the Wall's so that the tank only deals with exbow. Enchanters can be pesky too so give the wall something worth the weapon allowment and your all set. All in all the team looks like this.

Big AMF Enchanter naked
½ HP ½ DX Wall w/ ToBF, DB, Weapon Allowment
Tank w/ higher ST and DX then HP. Best available equip.

As an after thought an axbow would be the best choice of ranged weapon in this case I believe. The axbow is the best at cutting down the DX of the opponent, much better then EC, since it does damage when it knocks the DX down and since it targets the fastest person anyhow. This means that if a high DX enemy archer w/ ELB is on the other side then by the time the enchanter is dead you hopefully have his DX reduced so that dodging is even possible with the wall. So:

Big AMF Enchanter naked
½ HP ½ DX Wall w/ ToBF, DB, Weapon Allowment
Tank w/ higher ST and DX then HP w/ axbow & best available equip.

I might add that I have only outlined what you absolutely must have. Aside form the ranged weapon, I'm not going to tell you how to equip a tank since I'm sure you know better then me. I only list the DB's because if your not planning on getting them somewhere down the road, then don't bother. You need to cut the hits down to singles the best you can, or else the wall is just no good at being the wall or at giving back the full effect of the ToBF. I also leave the option for a forth minion that's tank-like, but I think the three team is much more solid and it would detract away from the central role of the ToBF.

And if I win, I don't really want anything at all, but maybe you could still give Sefton that corn he wants. =)

Skunk June 22 2005 8:26 AM EDT

lol, very short one :p
First minion: A huge AMF
Second minion: FB + HP
Third minion: CoC + HP and equip the TBF on him.

I don't know if this works, just wanted to post :p

onlyyouknow June 22 2005 8:39 AM EDT

A ToBF helps to reduce FB damage, burn those archers in melee and provide evasion. So this is my proposal:

Minion 1: (Enchanter) Train HP(1/4), GA(1/4) and DM(1/2) only.
Minion 2: (Mage) Train HP(1/4) and FB(3/4) equiped with a CoI.
Minion 3: (Archer) Train HP(1/4), dx(3/8), str(3/8) equiped with ToBF, DBs and axbow.

This is a well balanced team and doesn't split the exp as much as 4 minion teams.

Reasons:
1) I chose DM because it is a powerful spell that reduces all defensive enchantments on your opponent. Thus, GA and AS will be gone. GA will help to give a little more damage.
2) FB on second minion is to take out those enchanters and to do some damage to the rest.
3) The DBs and ToBF will help to reduce double hits and axbow will reduce an opponent archer's dx and help you to strike them.

IndependenZ June 22 2005 9:35 AM EDT

What about two minions? Here's what I was thinking about:

1) HP/FB/AMF/AS
Equipment: Mage armor
XP to be divided equally amongst HP, FB, AMF and AS.
2) HP/FB
Equipment: Mage armor + ToBF
1/3d of the XP into HP, the rest of it into FB.

The aim of this strategy is of course to kill the opponent in the range rounds. FB will deal with any pesky enchanters, and then concentrate on the remaining wall or tank. It'll hit them hard, but will probably not be sufficient. Then come the melee rounds. The AS (which will not get any penalty because you are only using two minions) will transfer HP to both of the minions, instead of training HP on the front minion alone. If you think about it, you're actually transferring a bit of the XP from the first minion to the second. The minion that casts Fireball will not hit himself in melee. In this strat, only the front minion would then get hit. AS will help the front minion survive some of your own FB-hits and will help your second minion to stay alive a little longer. The ToBF keeps your second minion from burning by your own FB's, it's Evasion will help you against big tanks, and it will do some extra damage to your attackers. AMF is there for the obvious: it makes sure you won't get hit by a small Decay, and will counter at least a part of the damage dealt by enemy mages. DM won't be much of a problem for this strategy. It only counters the AS, which is 1/8th of the total XP spent. Yes, you will be weaker against an opponent with DM, but only in the long run. This strategy isn't designed to last long in combat anyway: by melee round 17 (or less, for that matter), you'll have either won or died. Archers will remain a problem, especially with seekers equipped. But you'll certainly have an advantage against most of the strats out there.

I was thinking about adding DM itself to this strategy, instead of AMF. I haven't got much experience with DM, so I can't really say what it'll do for a strategy like this. Sure, it counters all ED of the opponent. But it won't be that big in this particular setup. (1/8th of the total XP) So it'll probably just lower ED. It depends a bit on the level of the characters you're fighting. In the lower ranks, I think AMF would be better. But way up there, you might want to use DM instead of AMF.

Well, that's it ... I hope this at least adds to the conversation. Feel free to post remarks or questions.

IndependenZ June 22 2005 9:39 AM EDT

Oh, here's what I consider mage armor: CoI, MCM, Corn, DB's, EG's.
Of course the ToBF-wearer won't be able to use a CoI and MCM.

{CB3}-HR22 June 22 2005 10:48 AM EDT

How many minions do you want?

I think you would need mostly Wall type minions that will block alot of damge and keep you dealers safe.
I would use 4 for the TBF strat:
EETM

Minion 1: (enchanter)
Has an extremly large AMF, and also a base protection (since it costs low XP it can be added at any time) and later you can add some into HP for a little more protection. Equip him with a Corn, and base leathers

Minion 2: (enchanter)
Give this guy a massive AS, and you could pour some into HP later if you wanted (your decsion), i would also choose EC for this minion but dont put that on until somewhere around 50K MPR. You could also give this guy a Corn (depending on budget) and equip him with base leathers.

Minion 3: (Tank/Wall)
Alrighty this is were all your cash is going. Equip him with high AC armor (Adam, Tulks, SC, CMLs, Hod, MgS,) The MgS will also kill off those pesky mages and you will be able to focus on there tank with your 2 minions (depending on there strat of course). You will need to pour more XP into HP then anything else. Also try to get your Tulks pretty high so they can help you on the ST. Do about 40% HP, 30% ST, 30% DX (depending on Tulks size your ST may be lowerd) Try to get your AC to about 200+ and you will protect your mage nearly every battle.

Minion 4: (ToBF mage)
This is going to be a either a CoC or MM mage totally depending on your choice, but a CoC would definatly work good becuse there is no question you will make it to melee rounds nearly every battle. Now with this strat HP is strongly considered and i think you should do about 55% HP and 45% DD spell (prefer CoC, but MM will work). You also need a to equip that TBF (of course) and some upgraded leathers. Since this is a mage you will lose out on the luxary of a CoI, so try to get your DD spell up to par..., but he has the ToBF which can dominate!

Arorrr June 22 2005 12:43 PM EDT

I think I have see most if not all of the TBF strat. You will have to Thursday to submit your strat. After that, I'll pick a few best and try them out to see if they are good in fight.

Remember, your strat must be at equal or better than my old strat in order to win this contest. Here is my old strat:
1. 2/3 AS, 1/3 DM + ToF
2. W: MgS, 200 AC. 3K dex, 30K str, all HP ~90K
3. 2/3 FB, 1/3 HP, ~100 AC

[T]Vestax June 22 2005 4:44 PM EDT

I guess I forgot about three things, two of which I was going to mention before, defending enchantment damage, melee attacks, and of course ToBF damage. AMF is obviously not a weakness here so GA is all that's left for taking damage from enchantments. The E and the wall don't have to worry about this, just the tank. There are four defenses as I see them, which are DM, VA, BoT, and MH. DM spreads you out to thin as so does VA, which VA is in turn countered by DM. On top of that adding any of these two would be a serious strat change from above. I like the BoT or MH option most. When I say you can pump up the ST on the tank I mean you can REALLY pump it up. It should be possible to get this three minion tank up to the power of a two minion tank or a three minion ToA tank. The wall in this case is almost an extension of the tank lending it HP. All you have to worry about is leftover FB and CoC and exbows. If you get worried about the DD then you can throw a MgS on the tank for good measure, but that would hurt your DX a lot since you don't have ToA advantage. Plus it would make the MH a weaker option too. Just put your points into more HP if DD starts to hurt you. You could also put a Corn on the enchanter just for the bonus, but eh. Alright so far, no real strat change for GA just a weapon suggestion.

As far as melee damage is concerned, there really is nothing to mention here other then the wall dies first. VB isn't going to trump you much since you don't have the high AC anyhow. Your substitute for AC is DX and the evasion bonuses from the armor. As far as ToBF damage is concerned, the wall is protected with his own ToBF and the tank has BoT or MH to cut the damage. But honestly folks who would use a big ToBF against you since there isn't any good strat for using it. :P

Will [Retired] June 22 2005 7:01 PM EDT

I was thinking about this a while back, its quite hard to fit it all together but...

ToBF gives FB reduction and melee damage. So to get the most out of it you have to use it alongside a FB mage and the minion its on has to last long into melee.

Heres my idea:

1
All Ablative Shield (no DM but extra AMF on wall helps)

2
1/2 HP
1/2 AMF
ToBF
(you can fart around with the intrinsics if you want :P )

3
1/3 HP
2/3 FB

ToBF > good against tanks, strat inherently becomes weaker against mages, therefore AMF :)
And I just looked at your current strat and realized its very similar to this. Sorry.

Another of my attempts was a FB mage in front of a tank with ToBF, never took it far enough out of the 0-10k MPR mire to see if it worked properly :S

Arorrr June 22 2005 10:50 PM EDT

I see some good strat here. The contest will end soon so put your strats here and you can either win the big jackspot.. or if not, I may have some consolation prices..

3D June 23 2005 12:57 AM EDT

WEM
Wall- HP TBF
Enchanter- AMF
Mage- CoC Mage (or any Direct Damage of your choosing besides decay)

3D June 23 2005 1:00 AM EDT

EEEM
E- AS
E- AS
E- AMF
M- CoC and Tattoo Balrog Flame

DrAcO5676 [The Knighthood III] June 23 2005 3:41 AM EDT

EEMT
E1= DM1/2 HP1/2
E2= AS1/2 GA1/2
T = HP5/8 E1/8 ST1/8 DX1/8 DEXBow
M = HP1/4 FB3/4 ToBF Corn and DB if possible
This strat should keep you alive a few rounds where the T and M should be able to decimate most of the enemys. DM will clear up most AS and GA while the FB takes out E. Tank will be able to hang with the big boys atleast till all mages are dead. Possibly use Seekers on tank but up to you. GA should be able to back up your mage and tank so that some damage is returned to attackers which will in turn weaken them so that the FB or Tank can clean up.

mihalis June 23 2005 5:15 AM EDT

I don't see much 2-minions strat, so here is one:

1: HP (not too much: 25%) / FB ( a lot: 75%)
2: HP (50%) / COC (50%) / TBF.

The fireball is meant to deal ranged damage, not to survive until melee. In case it would survive, the TBF will protect a little. With no ED, you are immune to DM. You could train some ST and DX on the COC mage and use a ranged weapon, if you want to hurt mages a little more (wouldn't work for a tank unless you train a lot of XP in ST/DX/archery).

Rubberduck[T] [Hell Blenders] June 23 2005 5:26 AM EDT

E - 100% AMF
E - HP/EC/GA
M - 30% HP, 70% FB
T - 50% HP, 25% ST, 25% DX, TBF, bow line ranged weapon.

GA size will have to be tailored with the rest of the exp going mostly into EC, with a few HP.

Arorrr June 23 2005 5:15 PM EDT

Okay, contest is over. Here is the list of strats that I'm consider looking into more closely...

Odysseus
Skunk
Sefton
Hell Razor

I'll try to answer why other strats are bad.

1. Any strat with 2 or less minions = bad. CBF is not a ToE nor even close to block damage as much as toe. CBF does not do offense, unless on an archer.

2. CBF needs a lot of HP to survive into melee and even then, need more HP to kill melee. A decent T will last at least 3 melee rounds, with 40-60K damage from CBF per rounds. There for, CBF needs additional offensive help. Which means archer CBF is out of question since it doesn't have a lot of HP.

Going to read more into the above 4 strats.

Arorrr June 23 2005 5:35 PM EDT

M egamanV:
Minion 1 Wall 100% HP. Equipment AC CML HoD SC MS
Minion 2 FB mage 50% FB 50% HP Equipment DB CoI MCM EG
Minion 3 TBF Wall/Enchanter 50% HP 50% GA Equipment Corn DB EG
Minion 4 DM enchanter 100% DM Equipment Corn DB

1. Too much emphasis on DB
2. DM enchanter does help with GA. Lack of HP means the strat is 3 minion team. Only FB mage has offensive power. I rather make DM = AMF to make it a much stronger strat.

--------------------------------------

Ranger:
1. His rambling is good and refreshing. I like the way he explains it. Too bad he didn't come up with a strat, instead of pointing me to a character. After all, the strat is very good but he couldn't win since he fails to make a strat.

--------------------------------------

Twistedness:

Minion 1 - AMF and GA
Minion 2 - FB mage and DM
Minion 3 - Tank with TBF and EC

EC? I don't get the EC part. Doesn't help with DM/GA/AMF/EC.

-------------------------------------

Vaynard:

Minion 1: AS only
Minion 2: 1/2 AMF + 1/2 GA
Minion 3: AS
Minion 4: 1/2 HP and 1/2 CoC, TBF

Good strat overall. Though 2 AS and lack of offensive power makes the strats very poor against DM team. It's a good strat but not good enough to make it into the final group. This strat is the best on CB1 but not on CB2.

-------------------------------

Shade:

Minion 1: Enchanter with AMF & AS trained 50:50
Minion 2: Mage with Fireball, HP & Protection. Split HP and Fireball almost 50:50. Amor: TBF
Minion 3: Mage with CoC, HP and GA. Trained at around 1/2:1/3:1/6 resp.

This is a very good strat. Too bad he put the TBF on minion 2. If he puts it on minion 3, he would be in final group. So sad that he messes it up. 8*(

His strat is a good strat. Well rounded. Large HP to survive range. Good offensive power to finish the round. AMF is a nice touch. AS is good addition. The strat is not too dependent on AS so it's good vs DM team.

The strat is versatile in a way that you can turn minion 2 into a light tank or a wall and it still works. Just too bad, he should put TBF on 3 minion since CoC = melee around = most effective for TBF.

Can someone give Shade a hug?

AdminShade June 23 2005 5:36 PM EDT

so you neglect the power of HP + AS + CoC damage dealing? 0.0

IndependenZ June 23 2005 5:41 PM EDT

"1. Any strat with 2 or less minions = bad."

oh my god ... now that's mean ;p

Arorrr June 23 2005 5:54 PM EDT

flamewind:
Minion 1: Mostly AMF, some prot, about to 10-20, or whatever you feel.
Minion 2: All AS.
Minion 3: Some GA, and either AMF or AS.
Minion 4: TBF guy, with base decay and the rest HP.

Never put a base decay on TBF. It kills the whole strat.

--------------------------------------

TresDots: EEWM
E- AMF tiny GA
E- AS
W- HP and have TBF there, so TBF can be utilized fully with all that HP on the wall.
M or Tank (see below)- HP and CoC.

Not good vs archery team. CoC will kill you. Not enough offensive. GA = 99% to be whiped out by DM. It's not just wellround enough. Only good vs FB mage. But if FB mage has a large DM, it's debatable.

-------------------------------------

Misstress Reyna:

e1: Large ablative shield
e2: Large AMF(2/3)/Prot) 1/3),
e/w: HP (2/3)and Gardian angel(1/3)
M4: cone of cold(1/2) and HP(1/2),

This strat is nice. Why do you chage it to the other strat. CoC mage is good with offensive and TBF takes care of melee. Though this strat is weak vs ToA archery with seekers, it is still good vs majority out there. Too bad you change a good strat for a bad one.

W: Huge HP
E: DM hp
M/E: MM+AS
T: Even stats

Not a good strat at all. T is very weak. W doesn't do any offensive. MM+AS is good, though is it enough to win on MM? Weak T and small AS = bad vs CoC/FB team.

----------------------------------------

Warchild:

Minion 1: AMF 50%, GA 50%( until trained appropriately then 100% into AMF)
Minion 2: AMF 50%, AS 50%
Minion 3: HP 22%, ST 22%, DX 22%, UC 33% (yeah I know thats only 99% but it makes since when training). Combat Gi, EC, DB, HG, HoE, MGS. AxBow
Minion 4: HP 50%, CoC 50% TBF

A very nice strat. Though UC isn't good here. Exp is too spread out. Lack of HP means it's a 2 minion team, or 1 and half team (UC = less HP). It's a much better with all AMF on minion 1 and most AS, less GA on minion 2. And ditch UC for like W, T or another M.

---------------------------------------

Duke[Battle-royal SL]: EEMT with a lot of haste.

It's kind of a waste of haste on EEMT. DM will kill you. Not enough HP to survive range. A good strat but it won't work well. Rather, Sefton strat is in this direction but better implemented.

---------------------------------------

onlyyouknow:

Minion 1: (Enchanter) Train HP(1/4), GA(1/4) and DM(1/2) only.
Minion 2: (Mage) Train HP(1/4) and FB(3/4) equiped with a CoI.
Minion 3: (Archer) Train HP(1/4), dx(3/8), str(3/8) equiped with ToBF, DBs and axbow.

Nice strat. But what is with 1/4 HP in minion 3 with a ToBF? How do you plan to survive at all? As soon as the archer dies, ToBF isn't there to help out. Better off with a ToE instead.

---------------------------------

IndependenZ:

1) HP/FB/AMF/AS
Equipment: Mage armor
XP to be divided equally amongst HP, FB, AMF and AS.
2) HP/FB
Equipment: Mage armor + ToBF
1/3d of the XP into HP, the rest of it into FB.

Again, 2 minion strat. The lack of AC is a killer on this team. You better of with FB/FB and ToF to finish the battle faster.

Arorrr June 23 2005 5:59 PM EDT

To answer Shade question: if he means about

Vaynard:
Minion 1: AS only
Minion 2: 1/2 AMF + 1/2 GA
Minion 3: AS
Minion 4: 1/2 HP and 1/2 CoC, TBF

Yes, lack of power. It's a nice and rounded strat. It's just lacking something. Do you agree that the strat is better of with ToE on 4th minion? If a ToE is a better than a TBF, why bother. The whole strat isn't center on TBF, rather AS/CoC.

About Independenz:
2 or less minion with a CBF center strat is a wrong way to go. That is my opinion. CBF needs to get to melee and survive at least 2-3 rounds. 2 minions do not have enough AC to last.

onlyyouknow June 23 2005 6:05 PM EDT

"onlyyouknow:

Minion 1: (Enchanter) Train HP(1/4), GA(1/4) and DM(1/2) only.
Minion 2: (Mage) Train HP(1/4) and FB(3/4) equiped with a CoI.
Minion 3: (Archer) Train HP(1/4), dx(3/8), str(3/8) equiped with ToBF, DBs and axbow.

Nice strat. But what is with 1/4 HP in minion 3 with a ToBF? How do you plan to survive at all? As soon as the archer dies, ToBF isn't there to help out. Better off with a ToE instead."

Well, the amount of exp to train is still up to you. Because the HP trained in both minion 1 and 2 will help to take off some damage, that's why I only train 1/4 HP on minion 3. The purpose is to deal as much damage in range and wrap up in melee. Alternatively, you can train 1/3 HP on both minion 2 and 3.

Arorrr June 23 2005 6:17 PM EDT

SilentButDeadly:

1 All Ablative Shield (no DM but extra AMF on wall helps)
2 1/2 HP 1/2 AMF ToBF
3 1/3 HP 2/3 FB

Very nice strat. It may work IF ToBF can block all friendly damage from 3rd minion in melee. 2/3 FB is very large and my experience tell me I get like 20-30K friendly easily in melee from friendly FB even with a ToBF. It's a strong strat only after July and Jon changes the mechanic of ToBF. Very rounded but not good enough for my standard.

--------------------------

TresDots:
EEEM
E- AS
E- AS
E- AMF
M- CoC and Tattoo Balrog Flame

Same as before. A ToE is better than TBF in this instant.

-------------------------

DrAcO5676:
EEMT
E1= DM1/2 HP1/2
E2= AS1/2 GA1/2
T = HP5/8 E1/8 ST1/8 DX1/8 DEXBow
M = HP1/4 FB3/4 ToBF Corn and DB if possible

Nice strat. Though a T should be W with the same setup. Better strat and help out damage spread. The lack of AS will post a problem for M with 1/4 HP. Potentially disaster if the M dies early.

------------------------------------

mihalis:
1: HP (not too much: 25%) / FB ( a lot: 75%)
2: HP (50%) / COC (50%) / TBF.

How do you plan to win even ToE FB mage? You are in worst position vs ToE CoC. Any ToA/ELB team will win. Large AMF on 4 minion teams can pose a problem. Just the lack of AC will make this team weak.

---------------------------------

[RMFN]Rubberduck
E - 100% AMF
E - HP/EC/GA
M - 30% HP, 70% FB
T - 50% HP, 25% ST, 25% DX, TBF, bow line ranged weapon.

Ugg! 50% HP on T with too much emphasis on ST/DX on a light tank that won't hit anything other than E or M. Also, why bother training HP on 2nd E if you go for EC. It may work but not to majority team out there. My old AS/FB team with ToF will spread you to pieces.

------------------------------

That's it... PHEW! Now it comes to the main points.

In order to survive round too, all 4 finalist strats must hold these condition:
1. No other tat is better suit than a ToBF (to make it a ToBF strat concentric).
2. To be equal or better than AS/DM/FB with ToF team, my old strat.

Let's debate futher.



[T]Vestax June 23 2005 10:02 PM EDT

Forgot someone, I would at least like to know why I didn't get picked.

Arorrr June 23 2005 11:47 PM EDT

Yah, you give a lot of point but I couldn't know which 3 strats you give is the one you want. I pick the last one then:

Big AMF Enchanter naked
½ HP ½ DX Wall w/ ToBF, DB, Weapon Allowment
Tank w/ higher ST and DX then HP w/ axbow & best available equip.

Won't work. Not enough offensive power. EWT, a light T I say can't do a lot of damage vs heavy tank. Also, this strat won't work vs a good major mage heavy team, given big AMF won't help that much with tanks that can't finish a fight.

smallpau1 - Go Blues [Lower My Fees] June 24 2005 1:42 AM EDT

Mine too, i want to know why mine wasnt picked...=/

Odysseus June 24 2005 4:10 AM EDT

Arror,

Great you picked me, if you need any help, just contact me (if something isn't clear enough)

Arorrr June 24 2005 10:50 AM EDT

smallpau1,

I answered your strat, like on the 20ish post ^ up there. Your is very much like my current setup, which isn't good. 8^) Or else I wouldn't have make this contest.

BTW, this contest won't end for another week but I'll try to wrap it up before July 1st. Jon, don't dare changing TBF before I can finish with this.. 8^)

I plan to read more into the finalist strats this weekend, and then find a way to test most of them out.

3D June 25 2005 10:57 PM EDT

WM
I cant remember i anyone said this but im too lazy to look.
W- HP and AMF + TBF
M- HP and CoC

Arorrr June 25 2005 11:43 PM EDT

4 finalist:

----------------------------------------------------
Odysseus:
Minion 1AMF (+HP at AMF is hight)
Minion 2 Wall, HP, GA
Minion 3 Mage, holds the TBF (FB,MM or CoC, HP)

Simpler is better. This strat concentrates on core stats and skills to make the most effective strat. Thought after I look more into it, the Wall has to be high AC without Mgs (like Ranger W) but with high AMF, this shouldn't be a problem.
An alternative strat is moving the light GA over to minion 1: AMF, GA, HP and put MgS on the Wall. It will help vs mage team with the draw back of 20ish AC less.
I would make the Mage wither FB or CoC. MM won't do enough damage to change the battle, especially vs E. I would go with FB as first try but ultimately go with CoC if I can get my W to live to melee.

----------------------------------------------

Skunk:
First minion: A huge AMF
Second minion: FB + HP
Third minion: CoC + HP and equip the TBF on him.

Another simpler is better strat. It's like Shade and Odysseus strat. The different is there is no AS on first minion vs Shade, and replace FB vs Odysseus W. Very good and rounded strat. This strat is FB team bane with combination of FB and CoC to spread damage evenly between range and melee.

---------------------------------

Sefton:
1) HP AMF HASTE DBs
2) BL HP ST DX AXBOW MORG MgS
3) EVASION HP FB
4) EVASION FP CoC ToBF

This strat is an extension of Skunk but much more complicated. It relies on Haste/Axbow +. Thus it's network dependent. I put it the weakest of the 4 finalist. A "rich strat" type. I have no doubt it will work for Sefton NW. But for the rest of us, putting too many eggs into an axbow isn't the wisest first choice.

The strat has more potential than the three other strats. However it is network dependent, unlike the others. Though if you have this much money, it's better of to go with ToA/ELB. Nothing can ever go wrong with this strat.


---------------------------------

Hell Razor:
Minion 1: (enchanter) AMF
Minion 2: (enchanter) AS
Minion 3: (Tank/Wall)
Minion 4: (ToBF mage) CoC/MM

Good strat overall. This strat is simpler than Sefton but tricker than the first two. The downside is that ToA seekers will destroy the whole team if M dies early. Other than that, E can carry some GA to help with damage. I consider this strat an extension to Odysseus AMF/W/CoC with AS enchanter.

-----------------------------

This is what I'm going to do. I will convert my current setup into Hell Razor to test out his strat. Then fire a minion and test out Odysseus and SKun strats. I'm not going to attempt Sefton strat since it's a network type of strat. I will post the result when I'm done.

QBSefton [Black Cheetah Bazaar] June 26 2005 12:49 AM EDT

Hate to disagree with my clan mate here, but for edification purposes only, I shall elaborate. The set up is not networth dependent, but is item dependent. The idea is basically to start out protecting against both DM and AMF, and both Mages and Tanks.

Simply put if they use DM, then the haste goes away, but then the FB and CoC can yield maximum damage. The FB firing all the time the CoC the big kick into melee, with the ToBF protecting aganst the FB backlash. If by some miracle or by seekers the front two minions make it into melee, then the tank is still capable of dealing some serious damage with the Bloodlusted Morg. If they all make it, well you are going to win no matter what so who cares about the FB backlash on the tank.

If they use AMF, then the FB and CoC are in trouble, but you have AMF if they are all mages, if not, then you have DB's and evasion in combo with Haste, to make up for your poor DX comparison to ToA tanks.

If they are a mage team your AMF protects you as well as the ToBF from Fireball.

If they are like me, a ToA/elbow tank with a decent wall and pretty big DM equipped with seekers, then I kill everyone BUT the tank, and nerf your haste, so your ONLY prayer is the axbow to put your non-ToA tank and my tank into a competitve DX comparision, and the bloodlusted morg does more damage (and returns more HP) than the archery BTh.

You say it requires more NW, I say the strat works on a peer NW comparision such that you could have weapon based NW allowance that would cause no gain of PR and you could lose the DB's on the enchanter. Just tossed it in to round out the haste idea.

In conclusion, assuming you can get the items, I do not think you need a ton of NW for it to work. Goldminer's current NW is Net Worth: $17,269,888. Using that same NW, and assuming lets say 7mil of it for the ToBF NW, you could own NW wise, The Trojan Hammer of Death [84x67] (+51) worth $5,921,046 owned by dnnx (dnnxone) and An Assassin's Crossbow [4x40] (+40) worth $4,350,389 owned by Vaynard (Stalker). That said I would distribute it differently, making more NW into the + of the axbow and a lot less into the + of the morg (because the axbow will allow you to hit after you nerf 40% of the tank's DX with every axbow strike). So I will agree the strat requires the axbow and morg, I will not agree it requires a lot of NW. If you say you need to be rich to have both of those items, and that pushes me out, I understand, but wanted anyone reading to see that it was not a NW dependent strat. As a matter of fact I think it could work in a very large way with virtually any tattoo you choose, simply the protection of the ToBF from backlash FB and the extra damage it will deal and the boost to evasion it offers, make it the best tattoo for the strat. :)

Arorrr June 27 2005 9:35 PM EDT

Hell Razor strat:
AMF
AS
W
CoC

Old Dwarf's minepick (EXP: 6)
HP: 20
ST: 20
DX: 20
Antimagic Field: 55,300

Gold Mine (EXP: 0)
HP: 666
ST: 66
DX: 66
Antimagic Field: 167,372
Ablative Shield: 228,745

Old Dwarf's bulldog (EXP: 9)
HP: 106,052
ST: 34,863
DX: 3,735

Old Dwarf (EXP: 11)
HP: 133,371
ST: 20
DX: 20
Cone of cold: 250,713
Guardian Angel: 6,819
------------------------------------

Battle the current top 50 top score
Win: 13
Draw: 5

Top 10 win (2): Black Caesar (The Disappointment Llamas), Death Spawn (Team Excellence)

Analysis: some what supprise. Good vs Black Caesar and Death Spawn. Though even with my current strat, I can draw them some time. However, at lower score range, this strat loses a lot. Not good enough, even comparing at my current strat. My old strat is much better.

-----------------------------------

Goldminer (Freaks) adrian exodus (The Night Watch) Goldminer 6 9:28 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Alucard (BrimStone) Draw 6 9:28 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Hell Spawns (The Disappointment Llamas) Goldminer 4 9:27 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Maltese Cross II (Freaks) Goldminer 6 9:27 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Nardo Polo Goldminer 1 9:27 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Master Xi (Ministry of Pain) Goldminer 5 9:26 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Freed Again Goldminer 7 9:26 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) The Peanut Goldminer 9 9:26 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Chicken Farm (Forge & Loans) Goldminer 5 9:26 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Tezmac (tRiGuN-MoKabA) Goldminer 6 9:25 PM EDT
The Slayers (Elven Blood) Goldminer (Freaks) Draw 7 9:25 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Moby (Always everywhere) Goldminer 5 9:24 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) The Slayers (Elven Blood) Draw 7 9:24 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Maximillian Goldminer 4 9:24 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Susan Death (Les Grammarians) Goldminer 6 9:24 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Neji (Nomads of Valinor) Draw 5 9:23 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Black Caesar (The Disappointment Llamas) Draw 5 9:22 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Death Spawn (Team Excellence) Goldminer 8 9:22 PM EDT

Arorrr June 27 2005 9:49 PM EDT

Odysseus:
Minion 1AMF (+HP at AMF is hight)
Minion 2 Wall, HP, GA
Minion 3 Mage, holds the TBF (FB,MM or CoC, HP)

-------------------------------------

Gold Mine (EXP: 7)
HP: 666
ST: 66
DX: 66
Antimagic Field: 365,913

Old Dwarf's bulldog (EXP: 1)
HP: 106,126
ST: 34,863
DX: 3,735

Old Dwarf (EXP: 3)
HP: 133,445
ST: 20
DX: 20
Cone of cold: 250,713
Guardian Angel: 6,819

-------------------------------------

VS top 50 score:
Win: 11
Drawn: 1

Worst than the above 4minion strat. I can see this since this strat put 1/3 of total exp in AMF. However it is still at par, just a little under than Hell Razor. Definately not good enough for me. Though I can see the trench for better strat, which is likely the next strat that I'm going to test out (or even morph into Shade strat... muhahaha.. point at Shade and laugh)

-------------------------------

Goldminer (Freaks) Hell Spawns (The Disappointment Llamas) Goldminer 4 9:43 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) adrian exodus (The Night Watch) Goldminer 5 9:43 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Nardo Polo Goldminer 1 9:42 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Master Xi (Ministry of Pain) Draw 6 9:41 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) The Peanut Goldminer 10 9:41 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Chicken Farm (Forge & Loans) Goldminer 5 9:41 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Tezmac (tRiGuN-MoKabA) Goldminer 5 9:41 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Lieutenant Stella (Hell Blenders) Goldminer 5 9:41 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Neji (Nomads of Valinor) Goldminer 4 9:40 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Maximillian Goldminer 4 9:39 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Krang (Battle Royale) Goldminer 4 9:39 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Death Spawn (Team Excellence) Goldminer 8 9:38 PM EDT

Arorrr June 27 2005 10:03 PM EDT

Skunk:
First minion: A huge AMF
Second minion: FB + HP
Third minion: CoC + HP and equip the TBF on him.

-------------------------------------------------
Gold Mine (EXP: 7)
HP: 666
ST: 66
DX: 66
Antimagic Field: 365,982

Old Dwarf's bulldog (EXP: 9)
HP: 106,126
ST: 20
DX: 20
Fireball: 33,431

Old Dwarf (EXP: 0)
HP: 133,520
ST: 20
DX: 20
Cone of cold: 250,713
Guardian Angel: 6,819

----------------------------
Score vs top 50 score:
Win: 5
Drawn: 3

Analysis: still a decent strat though it was in no where near the above 2 strats. In part of the 2 rounds of untrained and uneven exp spread (lack of exp in FB). The strat however has a big weakness as in odysseus in that it has a ton exp in AMF.

--------------------------

Goldminer (Freaks) Hell Spawns (The Disappointment Llamas) Goldminer 4 9:59 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Nardo Polo Goldminer 1 9:59 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) NWO (Hell Blenders) Goldminer 7 9:59 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Chicken Farm (Forge & Loans) Draw 6 9:57 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Lieutenant Stella (Hell Blenders) Goldminer 5 9:57 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Neji (Nomads of Valinor) Draw 4 9:57 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Maximillian Goldminer 4
Goldminer (Freaks) Krang (Battle Royale) Draw 4 9:56 PM EDT

Arorrr June 27 2005 10:24 PM EDT

I'm modified the strat from Skunk to Shade, except that I put the CBF on CoC minion. I use the same items as before and even has less exp to spend because of untraining.

HP: 666
ST: 66
DX: 66
Antimagic Field: 156,400
Ablative Shield: 211,663

Old Dwarf's bulldog (EXP: 6)
HP: 33,565
ST: 20
DX: 20
Fireball: 91,330

Old Dwarf (EXP: 1)
HP: 133,520
ST: 20
DX: 20
Cone of cold: 250,767
Guardian Angel: 6,819

--------------------------------

Well, the result is less or more in line with the last strat:

Goldminer (Freaks) Hell Spawns (The Disappointment Llamas) Goldminer 4 10:18 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Nardo Polo Goldminer 1 10:18 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Chicken Farm (Forge & Loans) Goldminer 6 10:15 PM EDT

-----------------------------

Hehehhehahaha. Oh well, that shows how much TBF rules in this game. I can tell you though why TBF is the worst Tattoo. Bbut then again it would take the fun out of trying out new strats for all of you out there who elects to use my old strat to the success: DM/ToF/FB.

I'm looking at the top 50 and see a large increase of these FB/ToF variance. That tells me something is not right (not something has to be wrong)...

8^)

Enjoy this contest all. It seems noone is the winners.

Arorrr June 27 2005 10:30 PM EDT

Just for fun. This is the result without the TBF:

Goldminer (Freaks) Hejin (Isle of the Pirate King) Goldminer 6 10:28 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Hell Spawns (The Disappointment Llamas) Draw 4 10:28 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Nardo Polo Goldminer 1 10:28 PM EDT
Goldminer (Freaks) Chicken Farm (Forge & Loans) Draw 6 10:28 PM EDT

The less of +5M NW TBF almost doesn't change the game that much.... hahahhahahaha.

Arorrr June 27 2005 10:37 PM EDT

BTW, anyone wants to bet that my current Shade strat can be MUCH BETTER with a ToE vs all ToF team out there, comparing to a TBF vs ToF....


Just another thought for the night.

Odysseus June 28 2005 5:58 AM EDT

There are a few things I don't like about this contest:

At first your comparison between the last three strats isn't fair. Of course you win more with a four minion team. When you fire a minion your PR drops with 1/4 of the total amount. And, when you unlearn your attributes, you lose many EXP points, so the last strat you tried is the weakest.
Conclusion: contest isn't fair at all.

I talked to Skunk and he agreed with the things I said above.

Skunk June 28 2005 6:04 AM EDT

So nobody wins this contest......
Pretty lame to give a contest and say at the end, there is no winner...........
I'd say you give something away, why else would it be a contest? Now it's more like a: "I need help for my strategy" post.
I don't mind you don't give your character away and stuff, but there are people who did there best trying to find the best TBF strat. So why not some consolation prizes?

QBRanger June 28 2005 6:20 AM EDT

Actually,

I won the contest. Here is my post in the initial thread:

"Basically this is a trick question. Why? Let's talk about all the other tats first. FF, IF, SF all deal damage. The TOE reduces ALL damage types, both magical and physical. The TOA augments a tanks str/dex high enough to let them deal more damage then normal at the characters PR level. The TOJ soaks up all types of damage and can attack and evade melee attacks with evasion and its high dex.
Now the TBF. It only protects vs one type of damage-FB. It only does damage vs tanks not mages. So it underpowered vs the other tats. If you must use one, use it like you would have used a CBF. Either on a single FB mage, or on a "wall". However the wall will be less of one due to the inability to use body armor, so a mini-tank like Jochumia has is a possibility."

As I said, this was a trick question with no chance of anyone winning. But that was MY answer. So I won with the correct answer to the question proposed.

Please send the items to The Apocalypse Book.

Skunk June 28 2005 6:23 AM EDT

Ranger, I already thought someone posted that none of the TBF would work. But I didn't knew who it was. And I was not going to look trough every post :p lol.
But you're right!

IndependenZ June 28 2005 6:34 AM EDT

Might I just say: lol! Very nice contest indeed! I knew it was too good to be true ;)
Why would anyone give so much away? Nice!

*laughs* Even I wasted 30 minutes on this. Arorrr, you tha man!
You tricked us all! And now look at all these people complaining!

Cool! Once again, there's some drama in CB-land! Haha, fun stuff.

AdminShade June 28 2005 7:43 AM EDT

indeed, the more you unlearn and re train the less strong your character will become, the contest isnt entirely fair, but imo its his contest and his rules.

Conan June 28 2005 10:09 AM EDT

I haven't red the strat proposed by the other players but I suggest you this strat (and I hope no one told it before) :

go visiting the Tattoo Artist and transform your TBF into something else like a ToE and make a single FB mage or something like that because I consider the TBF can be a complement in a strat but not the base of a strat, it will only protect you from fire damages ... and there are many others

Arorrr June 28 2005 12:24 PM EDT

About the untrain exp, I said the 4 minion strats do better not because it's much better but partly it has all experience potential. Also, the 4 minion that I fired was recently hire so it total likes 1/9-10 exp of the whole team (about 600K exp on the fired minion). When I analyzed the result, I took into the account of untrained exp lost. So a 13 win from previous to 8 win to the next strat is comparable to me.

As I laid out in the contest, the TBF strat must be superior or make even with ToF/DM/FB strat. Hell Razor did well vs two of the top 10 but loses to too many in top 20-50. The other AMF strats do well but the lack of HP makes the mage dies too fast, even with TBF. Shade strat was doing good (after all of the untraining) and my favorite out of all. 8^)

As I recalled, my old ToF/DM/FB strat put me in like 13-15 spot regularly and only like 2-3 chars under top 30 can actually beat me. All of the char on my 50 fav list are on the first page of Top score, most of them 20-50. That was how good ToF/DM/FB strat was. It was before I convert ToF->TBF, spent 1.5M to hire a minion for like 500K exp and put on about 3M worth of stuff (HoE,DB).

The problem with FB is that Jon removed the CoBF (when it's overpowered) after he upped FB (due to overpowered CoBF and ToE) and introduce TBF that is much less in power than CoBF, even at comparable network. +5M NW CoBF deals more damage than a +5M NW TBF that deals only 30-40K damage to T and even less with ToJ.

If you can think of a way that I can test out strats without unfiring, untraining and losing exp, feel free to post. Otherwise, I think the contest was fun within the available framework. I did have prices in mind to give out eventhough I said there was no winner. I just didn't have time to do it last night. Just give me time.

Arorrr June 28 2005 4:46 PM EDT

BTW, I have 4 consolation prices for 4 finalists:

A Helm of Durin [9] (+18) 1,015,221
A Pair of Elven Gloves [3] (+8) 113,608
A Compound Bow [5x40] (+20) 1,515,975
300K CB2

The thing is that I cannot make up the mind who would be the first one (that HoD looks niffty isn't it?)... So I'm asking the admin if they can put a vote up for the 4 finalists. Who ever gets most votes get to pick first, then the second and so on.

I'm afraid that if I pick out the first winner, there would be bickering so it's better off for the CB2 community to decide.

WeaponX June 28 2005 4:55 PM EDT

i think the fair thing would be to draw a random number for everyone who submitted an idea

Arorrr June 29 2005 11:06 AM EDT

I couldn't get an admin to put up a poll, so here it is:

Arorrr (Goldminer) 199.36.20.5 Sefton (Gyaxx) $300000 11:05 AM EDT
Arorrr (Goldminer) 199.36.20.5 Hell's Razor22 (SilentThunder) A Helm of Durin ($1015221) 11:04 AM EDT
Arorrr (Goldminer) 199.36.20.5 Odysseus (Zero) A Pair of Elven Gloves ($113608) 11:04 AM EDT
Arorrr (Goldminer) 199.36.20.5 Skunk (Unreal) A Compound Bow ($1515975) 11:03 AM EDT


Thank all for playing.

{CB3}-HR22 June 29 2005 11:07 AM EDT

/me passes out

Thanks Arorrr!!

AdminShade June 29 2005 12:01 PM EDT

bah @ not reveiving a prize :P (j/k honestly)

Skunk June 29 2005 12:02 PM EDT

Yeah, thanks!

Arorrr June 29 2005 12:26 PM EDT

Shade was so closed to get the HoD and more but he makes the most crutial mistake. I can see some newbie to make that mistake but not our Shade! Come on, he's the brain of CB here with all of the wonderful graph and analysis and stuff... 8^)

BTW, a compliment for you Shade and I'm sticking with your strat.. or let say *borrowing* it...

Odysseus June 29 2005 1:34 PM EDT

Thank you Arorrr, nice price!
This thread is closed to new posts. However, you are welcome to reference it from a new thread; link this with the html <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001OQ0">Give me a good TBF strat, you win everything on Goldminer</a>