What NW/PR link and weapon/armor allowance are? (in General)

Nameless evil June 23 2005 5:02 PM EDT

I know there are so many players talking about NW/PR in many threads, but I couldn't find out what the practical meaning of it. I have no idea what it's all about, what I know is my character (President Evil) PR as the same as its MPR (45,059) unaffected with equipped weapons (A Katana [74x10] (+6) 91,142 NW and A Compound Bow [5x16] (+12) 236,168 NW). Are those weapons too high for my MPR so I'm not allowed to use them?

In brief, is there any calculation like 1 MPR means allowance for 50 cb2 NW (non-base) item to be equipped?

/me feel like a new born stubborn newb, especially after doctor said I have to take a rest for a few days and not to use computer more than an hour a day.

QBRanger June 23 2005 6:50 PM EDT

In my experience there is no armor allowance. There is some lowering of the PR weapons give if you have a tattoo but I think Shade or Duke know more about that then I do.

There is a weapon allowance of somewhere around 50 cb2 per 1 MPR so at your 45k MPR you should have close to 2 million CB2 weapon allowance. Since you have a total of 330k in weapon NW your well under so you will not get any more PR from them.

BooDiggens June 23 2005 6:55 PM EDT

Well it takes a little math, but you have to figure out the total EXP trained for the Character, not just the minion you want to put the weapons on.
From here look at the cost to untrain for stats and spell. For Hp (cost to untrain/ .85) For Str and Dex (Untrain/.88) For Skills (Untrain/.90) For Direct Damage (Untrain/.92) and For Enchant Def/Off (Untrain/.95).

Once you've calculated that, add them all up for your total exp trained. And roughly 2/3 of that is the NW allowance for weapons. You're on your own about armor though :P

Nameless evil June 24 2005 6:40 AM EDT

With 45,709 MPR, 50 cb2 per MPR give me 2,253,950 NW allowance. Using BooDiggity's calculation, I get 2/3 * 908,592 trained EXP = 605,728 NW allowance. I'll try to find out more later.

AdminQBGentlemanLoser [{END}] June 24 2005 6:44 AM EDT

From Shades information, it seems to be 2/3 of that is the allowance for *any* and *all* the weapons you equip on your character.

I suppose if it didn't work that way, 4T teams would be doomed... Weapons the quarter of a size of characters with just 1 tank.

AdminShade June 24 2005 6:46 AM EDT

From the other thread about my site:

from Jonathan:

Basically, everything will count towards PR, except for a weapon "allowance." Since tanks need NW + ST combined to keep dmg growth up, weapon NW up to a point (about 2/3 of all the XP your [character] has trained, since that's easier to calculate inside a trigger than what ST would turn out to be after all the bonuses are added in) doesn't count towards your PR. NW above that cap is counted normally.

My character:

AMF: 1733794 untrain @ 95% >> 1825046 exp
AS: 1733806 untrain @ 95% >> 1825058 exp

HP: 959363 untrain @ 85% >> 1128662 exp
ST: 993223 untrain @ 88% >> 1128662 exp
DX: 993223 untrain @ 88% >> 1128662 exp
VA: 384693 untrain @ 95% >> 404940 exp

Summed together: 7441033 experience
(ignoring some 8k experience from fights but 8k at 7 mil is 0.11%)

My equipped weapons:
A Vorpal Blade [75x60] (+30) 3,977,838
Angainor. The Chain of Melkor [4x42] (+50) 6,200,420 (Named Exbow)
Also ignoring base values here (7k / 4 mil = 0.175% and 2k / 6 mil = 0.03% neglectable numbers)

So now 2/3 of my total experience is: 4,960,689 NW

Neither of my weapons add to my characters PR.
So my Exbow's NW already is higher than my 'weapon NW allowance'
My exbow would be 25% over the weapon NW allowance...
And adding the weapon's NW's together would make me be 10178258 / 4960689 = 2.05 times over the allowance.

So either this is a huge bug or Jonathan has made the weapon NW allowance higher without letting us know officially.

Manta June 24 2005 7:20 AM EDT

So, an EETM character could equip a fairly big ex/axbow on the enchanters or mage (in addition to the weapon on their tank), and see no increase in his PR?

AdminShade June 24 2005 8:03 AM EDT

perhaps, OR the weapon NW allowance is 2 times that of your experience and i just went over it without noticing it (which would be unthinkable)

or the weapon NW allowance is much bigger than we initially knew...

Manta June 24 2005 8:40 AM EDT

Shade, with your MPR of 235K, using Ranger's formula 50CB2 per 1 MPR, we would get an allowance of 11.7mil , well above the 5mil computed by the 2/3 of exp formula.
From Jonathan's words, your computation seems correct. However, it does not correspond to the facts. An allowance of 11.7 mil, instead, seems to be more realistic. You could try to equip a 2mil weapon on your enchanter, and see what happens.

By the way, how/where did they find the 50CB2 per 1MPR formula?

AdminShade June 24 2005 10:11 AM EDT

Manta: I also wonder how and when somebody got the 50 NW per MPR formula.

and i could try equipping a 2 mil NW item though i don't want to pay lots to rent one...

Maelstrom June 24 2005 10:16 AM EDT

I heard Duke figured out the 50 NW per MPR formula...

AdminShade June 24 2005 10:17 AM EDT

Just tried a 3 mil NW weapon: added ~50k PR
Also tried a 1.1 mil NW weapon: added ~5k PR

my current total weapon NW: 10,178,258

so adding an item of 2 mil pr will most certainly add to the mpr with that 50 NW / mpr calculation.


mpr * 50 = 235,700 * 50 = 11,785,000

11,785,000 - 10,178,258 = 1,606,742

adding 1,606,742 NW shouldn't add to my PR though: but it does!

so that calculation isn't 'correct' also...

Caedmon [Revenge of the Forgers] June 24 2005 10:19 AM EDT

two things:

1. In my experience, the "conversion" is $64 NW=1 pr. I make no claims of linearity, tho.

2. the "2/3 of total xp = weapon allowance" is way too low. My 10M+ NW BoNE has no affect on my pr, and I'm not even on the first page.

AdminShade June 24 2005 10:28 AM EDT

the $64/mpr is too high... i shouldn't be getting any PR from that 1 mil NW addition, which i do get...

Manta June 24 2005 11:21 AM EDT

Well, at least we established that the allowances is not per weapon:
a 1mil weapon added to an enchanter does raise the PR.
However, now I have no idea on how to compute the weapon allowance: the 2/3 exp formula seems wrong by defect by an order of two, the 50 NW per 1 MPR seems much better, but it is still inexact (by excess).
And if Caedmon based his statement on experience, we can conclude that the allowance/PR ratio varies from less than 50 to more than 60.

AdminShade June 24 2005 11:27 AM EDT

the 50 per PR is already too high (from my experience)

Caedmon [Revenge of the Forgers] June 24 2005 2:21 PM EDT

Anecdotal, but specific, evidence:

My mpr is 248,977. I only have three items, one of which is a weapon which does not affect my pr.

tat: 4,037,000 NW. raises pr from 248,977 to 332,191. That's $48.53 per 1 pr.

MgS: 433,796 NW. Raises pr further from 332,191 to 339,151. That's $62.33 per 1 pr.

Hence, it's not linear.

If I wanted to (maybe I will this weekend) I'll come up with a most likely functional form for the rise.

Caedmon [Revenge of the Forgers] June 24 2005 2:39 PM EDT

Just using four data points, a ballpark estimate seems to be

increase in pr = (NW above weapon allowance)^0.75

This is a touch too high, but it'll do for a few days.

Nameless evil June 24 2005 5:06 PM EDT

I started this thread and I'm the only confused here. Thank's to everyone who make this thread "hot"

Undertow June 24 2005 5:18 PM EDT

Okay, I'm gonna try to break this down real simple for you.

When you equip a piece of armor, it always raises your pr. Your mpr is always what your pr would be if you were fighting naked.

So, with no weapons or armor, pr = mpr.

Now, weapons add pr, but your allowed a certain amount that will not add to pr. this is your weapon allowance.

This is why your pr is the same as your mpr. The allowance is a good thing. It's not that your not using your weapons. You're using them, and they don't add to your pr because they are the right size for you.

The only time adding a weapon will raise your pr is if the item is "too big" for you. So if you try to equip a 15 mil elbow, for example, your pr will go up.

Having your pr go up is bad. You want to avoid it. The higher your pr, the lower your rewards when you win a fight.

But you have to equip SOME stuff. So before you equip something, you have to ask yourself, "is this really worth the pr it's going to give me."

Undertow June 24 2005 5:22 PM EDT

If you want to see a character that has a good example of having too much armor, which jacks up your pr, try this character:


Nameless evil June 24 2005 6:02 PM EDT

That character has very high AC and NW, the mp/ pr gap is really high, so is the pr/score gap.

Undertow June 24 2005 7:12 PM EDT

Score: How well does your character do against other characters?

PR: How well your character SHOULD do, based on his strength and equipment.

MPR: How well your character should do, based on his strength, fighting naked.

Your score should be higher than your pr. As long as that is true, your okay.
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