[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]//Stasonator//RareSumo Financial Dilemma (in Public Record)
[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] and I have a problem. Stasonator borrowed an amount of money from bullet, which bullet has changed from 315k to 300k in his PMs he has sent me. Then stasonator quit and gave me a smaller sum of money, about 150k less and an exec which went for 100k in the auctions, I decided I didn't need it and was going to give it to the community (starting bid was 1k with 1k increments). Bullet borrowed from me 400k to purchase a set of DBs and agreed to pay 450k in full at a later date. He offered a pay plan, and I told him to just give me the money whenever he had all of it to give to me at once. Now bullet is trying to tell me I owe him the 300k that stasonator borrowed. I feel this is probably an act of desperation, as bullet doesn't have 450k. I don't see a reason to only get back 150k. I feel I'm entitled to my 450k from bullet, and that by accepting (which required no action on my part to be the recipient of these things) such stuff from stas doesn't mean that his debt is transferred to me as well. I also feel that a 150k per day over 3 days would cover the 450k and I'd even go 50k/9 days if bullet is that backed into a wall financially. Then again, stas did owe bullet money as per the public record, and bullet shouldn't be left with nothing. Can we get some arbitration? Right now I have the money stas gave me and the 100k from the exec, and bullet has my 400k, if anyone's interested in the current standings of the property.
July 6 2005 10:39 PM EDT
I can honestly say I'm disappointed in Bull3t, if this is true. Transfer of debt via a situation like this is ridiculous. I'd say you're entitled to all of your money back from Bull3t, provided you're not actually stas and his departure with outstanding debt wasn't planned.
168,000 + 100,800 = 268,800
400,000 - 268,800 = 131,200
i say you guys call that a deal. see it as stas paying off part of bull3t's loan.
July 6 2005 11:19 PM EDT
But why should RareSumo be penalized for something he didn't do? That's a bit like charging Fuhgawz my outstanding loans (ignore the fact that I currently have none =P) just because I quit and gave him what things I had.
It's really not my fault stas gave me his stuff. It could've been anybody. If stas decided to give you his stuff, you'd expect to give it to someone who he owed? That's ridiculous. Not only that, but I should've been informed before paying the 400k, throwing the fact that someone else has a debt with him in my face as an excuse to not pay me... How can you not see a flaw in that? Not to mention he said he'd pay 450k when he got it, so if I payed the 268k, he'd give me 182k, I'd still expect my interest from his debt to me. Anyone else have an opinion on how this should be handled? We have one of each of the main ways to handle it... x.x
July 6 2005 11:45 PM EDT
If Stasonator was going to leave the game for good then sta should have given his belongings to the person he/she owed first, then out to someone else as a "last request". I thought that in the case of last wills all debts are paid first and then the inheritance is distributed. In this case I would see you as sta's lawyer how must handle these debts.
It only seems right to Bullet that either what was given to you either comes off of his debt or is given to him only to be repaid back to you. As far as the missing sum of money, well bullet should have been more careful with who he loans to.
However, It is still a fact that bullet owes you money regardless. I do see the other side of this in that you should be allowed to be ignorant of bullet's dealings and that his debts, regardless of the connection to you, should be his business alone.
But you are not ignorant of the situation and their is another person's mistake that needs to be corrected to, and that is sta's. And frankly only you have the power to undo that mistake of his.
July 6 2005 11:55 PM EDT
Vestax, to say that is to say that you can arbitrarily choose someone to off your debt onto. In that case, I might as well rack up some debt and pass it off onto someone I dislike.
" But why should RareSumo be penalized for something he didn't do?"
i know he didn't do anything, but he did gain from what bull3t lost. why should rare gain anything from someone that played for a whole 2 days?
For the reason he gave me the stuff. I helped him via PM for a good while and answered any questions he had. He told the chat that he didn't like anyone here but me. He said it in different words, but he claimed I was the only helpful person here, thus, I got the stuff. Either way, the debt to me is 450k.
July 7 2005 12:02 AM EDT
I'm not saying that Raresumo inherit the debt, but if he inherited the items and money for free, well then those items should have gone to the person sta's owed money too instead. If was part of a debt to raresumo, then I would think differently about it. And I don't suggest that Raresumo pay the sum of 300k to bullet or take 300k off the debt, since the items and money comes to less then this. What is left over is bullet's problem.
By my last response I meant I would get 182k or 450k. I'm not taking 132k either way.
i didn't see the 450k to start with so 181,800 would be the fair amount, not 132k. either way i don't see why bull3t would have to pay back the full 450k.
July 7 2005 12:19 AM EDT
I do see why bullet would be responsible for paying Raresumo unlike you chargerz. I simple say that the choice is up to Raresumo and that if he wants to be above all this and take the money off Bullet's debt, well then that would make him a better person for it. I am stating what I would do based on my ideals. I am not stating the laws here at all. By the rights and rules of this game Raresumo could just collect the full sum from Bullet, but what kind of person would that make him.
July 7 2005 12:30 AM EDT
Final words from BrandonLP:
Stas owes Bull3t money. If Bull3t wants that money, he should collect from Stas, here or otherwise.
Bull3t owes RareSumo money. Bull3t should pay the amount in full to RareSumo and not base his repayment upon loans made with other people.
July 7 2005 12:39 AM EDT
Brandon's view is the legal way of looking at it and is by all mean correct. I think we've all said our piece, so it's up to you Raresumo.
182k should be the pay off. bull3t is still taking a loss of 32k there, and sumo is still getting 50k interest on that loan.
If bullet had informed me in a lighter manner, you people know how I am. I would have let this go no problem. He insisted, rather, to be very demanding and took this whole thing too seriously. I'd still like my debt to be paid, in full, as I still don't see it as any of my business that bullet made a bad transaction. Loaning money to someone who quits is a bad transaction and it's not my fault he'd hand 315k to a person who was here for such a short time. I feel no guilt in asking for a loan to be repaid in full, especially from somebody who tried to pin this all on me, rather than approaching me in a mature manner. It'd be interesting to see how bullet responds to this, considering he just joined the chat, and may be reading this soon.
July 7 2005 1:23 AM EDT
ACTUALLY lets get this very very straight...first of all i borrowed 400k...I asked Rare if I needed to pay with interest and he said "no take ur time and just pay tranfer fees"..so i agreed to pay him 402k...the next day i asked him if i should pay him 100k and he said "no pay in lump sum"...i dont even have the 402 k anyways atm...so im not ripping u off..where u got 450k from is absurd...THEN it just so happened tobe tuesday when i charge..stas his interest..BTW i gave him 300k..and his first week interest was 315k...when i posted the new amount (somehwere around 330k) The Unattainable read my PR post and told me that stas had no signed on since the 30..which (like to anyone would concerned me)...i made up my mind that since his char IKILLYOU was no really that big and such..that i would INQUIRE to RareSumo and just ask about the problem...he came back witha whole defense as if i was trying to steal his wife (well maybe not that bad)...then it progressed to this...
anyways...my theory...is that this is Rare's problem as well as mine..He told me no to deal with noobs as he had done himself...i dont believe you can just take blood money and not give it back...its just not right...you can say its not your problem at all..but the problem is that u have MY money...
BTW...what if i just happened to "quit" and give your money along with all my stuff..to some random person..how would you feel?
July 7 2005 1:32 AM EDT
hmm i am just re-reading all of the stuff posted because i had just skimmed it earilier...Rare says i should have aproached in a mture manner..I believe i did by asking if he knew anything about this ...he replied with blunt reply..saying something to the effect of.."thats not my problem, you dealed witha noob its your fault"..i continued to persist..and then he told me to be mature or something like that...i said..that i was just inquiring and not meaning to make an exucse or anything...i dont know how he took..it but that was not how i meant anything in any way..
If you quit, like I said many times while you PMed me constantly over this "horrible" problem, I'd shrug it off. You're not very mature, and I wouldn't miss you. I dislike dealing with you because you cannot be mature about anything. I'm not lowering this any further than 400k, your debt to me stands. If you quit, it happens.I'm out 400k for some kid that wants to throw a temper tantrum over the fact that I was nice enough to assist with a pair of DBs purchase, when no one else in chat volunteered. I love how everything's just revolving around you. You lost your money, it was your fault, and I take no blame, credit, or anything else for you not being able to control your own finances. I invest in newbies all the time and lose money all the time, but that doesn't bother me. When they quit, I dont go through their transfer list and hunt down everyone they gave money to and try to take it back. It's not worth it. As a matter of fact, Mack_Daddy, or whatever he goes by, borrowed 200k from me, turned out to be a multi, probably quit, and left me 200k short. Do you see me posting about him? Do you see me trying to "work things out" to get my money back? Nope. Cut my losses and leave it at that. If you had any maturity you wouldn't be so bothered by a little digital counter. I'm not even interested in the money, I have nothing to really purchase, except pipe dream rares I'd love to have. The reason I want my money is because you had to approach me like I'm some kind of thief. This is ridiculous, and I just want to bring to light what kind of business transactions you perform. Poor conduct and a bad sport about a loss. You invest the money, and you knew it was a risk. I refuse to be your fall back plan for a failed investment. Try again with somebody else, because I'm not going to just roll over on this one.
From what I have, my 20th line sent to you (and I dont have the start of our convo...) was this => [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] If you put money into a nub, you risked your cash, your fault, not mine... I expect my money still, now I think I'll go back to what I was doing
which came well after you had bothered me over giving you your money... ... that's 20 =>'s down from the top of what I have... I didn't immediately get angry, I actually tried to get you to understand that it's not my fault he owes you.
July 7 2005 1:43 AM EDT
see you are taking it as if im yelling at you and acussing you of being a thief...i am simply asking if you knew anything about it...i dont understand how i am not being mature? but i believe thats just your perception..the reason why i am inquring about my money is that i believe everything should be fair...that means that when i loan money out i expect it back with interest...im not sure what you do..but I cant believe that when you loan money out...you dont want it back? thats wierd...also...i KNOW that i owe you money..i owe you 402k...no more no less with no interest..like we had agreed...U bet iw ill pay it back..in one lump sum..but how can i do that when i have 387k? am i a criminal for asking about my money?
July 7 2005 1:46 AM EDT
"I actually tried to get you to understand that it's not my fault he owes you."
Yes and i asked you if its morally right to keep blood money...
Since we are both in chat, let's work something out in a PM and we'll just post what we conclude here. We both think we're individually in the right, and I see your side clearly, and you claim you see mine. We're both entitled to our money, but we were both wronged. I was given stolen money, and you were stolen from. Although it would be a nice thing from me to return the stolen goods, it could've been handled better. PM me when you read this, so at least I know you've read this far.
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> now how couldve been handled better as u say?
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] Not just by you, I meant by stas, as well.
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] This whole situation is a result of collective poor judgment.
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> well stas is out of the pic..hes gone..
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] I'm aware.
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] What do you suggest? I think giving you 400k to have 182k given back just isn't what I was looking for when I loaned you the money.
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> i wasnt thinking that either..but it just so happened that when i charged him interest...charger told me he hadnt logged on in a week or so
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] I looked at your deal, I saw that...
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> so do u tihnk i should just give u 402k..?
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> and plsu..i never owed u 450k...
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] I feel I'm entitled to it, but I'm not thinking I'm going to charge all 400k...
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] I thought mack's loan was stas's... I keep up w/nothing around here
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] I dont take anything serious enough to care who owes me what, it's owed and I expect people to be responsible enough to pay up.
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] (that was sent to the wrong person)
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] Anyway, I'm looking for a compromise here.. I'm not accepting 182k and I'm not expecting 402k... but I still think it's in poor taste to try to pinch this deal like this
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> whoses being pinched? when u sold an exec that should have been mine..and have 168k..of mine?
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> ok...lemme do this math..
=> [uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz] Nevermind. You don't even listen, I offer to compromise and you have to whine about me having your money. I didn't take it! Wasn't me, so quit trying to throw this at me. Just pay me my 402k. No math. Just pay your debt.
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> im not pinning this on u
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> how many times do i ahve to say that
<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> u keep making your self the victim..when i am,
Directly from the PM window (removed other PMs from other people though.. they're irrelevant anyway..) ... I try to tell him I dont want all 400/402/450k and I try to meet in the middle. He jumps to the "<[uber]Bull3t_F4c3[loanz]> whoses being pinched? when u sold an exec that should have been mine..and have 168k..of mine?" pretty fast. I offered to negotiate, and he whines. Is everyone else reading this the same way?
July 7 2005 2:10 AM EDT
i am offering to negotiate also? but i cant believe that you would not comprimise at all..when u know that 168k and an exec worth 100k..was stolen from me and given to you..anyways..strongmad sent me 400k..from his debt to me..in order for me to pay you..i should have somehwere around 800k..but now i only have 400k..either some higher power took money from me and gave it to you...or its major tranfer lag..whatever the case may be..i have to go..we will resolve tomorrow
400k went to (Bull3t F4c3) sorry if i didn't send to the right character.
July 7 2005 8:12 AM EDT
Bull3t, from the looks of the convo, RareSumo is being pretty mature about the whole thing. He's not even asking for the the full amount back as I would be if I was in his situation.
RareSumo is NOT responsible for the debt of stas unless you can somehow prove that this event was planned out. It doesn't appear that way seeing as how RareSumo even went as far as to loan you money. You agreed to pay him a certain amount back. Just do so and either take the loss from stas, or find some other way to recover it.
July 7 2005 8:31 AM EDT
1: raresumo doesn't own any debt to you
2: you have a different deal in which you owe money to raresumo.
those 2 things have nothing to do with eachother.
if Stasonator scammed you and left with the money then he should be reset / banned or something like it, but it doesnt mean that any money he sent to someone else would automatically be yours...
Haven't read every post in this thread but i do get an idea that RareSumo is being an ok guy in this 'dilemma'
July 7 2005 9:38 AM EDT
RareSumo, I think you should give the poor guy a break.
Say like only make him owe you like 300k.
Then we'll tack on some taxes.
Whining tax - 40k.
Bad Grammer Tax - 20k
Idiot Tax (for loaning a noob money) - 20k
Stress Tax - 40k
That makes it... what... 420k? Sounds good to me.
Undertow, that's actually exactly how I calculated it. Not exactly those numbers, but if you read the PMs, I said I didn't expect the full money nor would I pay all of what stas gave me, to him. What I meant was, let's meet in the middle or so. I originally planned to offer 275k if he could be mature about it, then it became 300k (mentally). Then it kept going up and up until he claimed that I have his money, again. He got angry at me over somebody else's mistakes (his and sta's, actually), and expected me to reason with him after each of my posts here call him immature, and almost half of these posts are mine. You'd think he'd try to prove me wrong and have some decency, but he lacks in that category. Some people just aren't business people. =P
July 7 2005 3:18 PM EDT
lol..getting way too out of hand. By you keep telling me I am not mature is none of your concern. I believe I am very mature and if you have a problem..sorry..
I am going to give RareSumo..exactly 402 nothing more and nothing less...
I guess people arent supposed to inquire about stolen money like any real human would so whatever...
Money is being sent now...talk over case closed..enjoy the profits of a free exec and and extra 168 k ..that was mine
btw: i guess people can scam away now..All you have to do is take out a loan and pay some one else..because people dont know what blood money is...
July 7 2005 3:35 PM EDT
Bull3t: A while back GFBasenut1 bought a CoI from me on a p/p, of which I haven't seen a penny. He sold it, and hasn't returned to the game since. With your logic I should be able to get this CoI back from the person he sold it to. Nope, I can't.
You should feel grateful you weren't scammed for more.
July 7 2005 3:41 PM EDT
well i sent him what we agreed upon..before this thing exploded..so its over..
Ok i know this is settled but i have one thing to add first off rare by calling someone else immature u really make urself sound stupid cause u r exactly that but thats not wat i mgetting at ok if u got money and all from stas that wasnt urs that was actually owed to bull3t u shoulda just given him the money and exec given to u and he woulda been happy resold the exec himself INSTEAD u sold it and profited it off it urself so really your the one who made the mistake because you were given money u shoulda been responsible and payed it back to bull3t because it shouldnt have belonged to u so im done with this and rare as a newb i know u wouldnt know this but its wat us big ppl do =) lol
Do you people see why I ignored Dan and Bull3t? Dan, that whole post was full of "u" and was one long sentence. Please refrain from posting here, or anywhere, ever again. Not to mention this thread needs to die, now.
Ok im done with this but just for the record Sumo i will never post in another thread again oh great NUB abusing newb god of cb *bows to the all knowing god* there u go r u happy
/me stabs thread in da face
July 7 2005 5:57 PM EDT
This thread is closed to new posts.